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kanisatha

Baldur's Gate 3?

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To add more, none of what you're saying about spell usage is accurate and it indicates that either it's been a long time since you played or your simply do not want to have an honest conversation about this subject for some reason. Which is weird, since you keep replying.

But some spells in the levels you mentioned were absolutely necessary to have around, in most party compositions. Talking about BG2 and mentioning fifth level spells as if Cloudkill was the only thing that mattered and not Breach, it's simply exasperating from my end to have to read sentences like that. You're clearly not interested in having an honest discussion with omissions like that.

Edited by cokane

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2 hours ago, cokane said:

Hyperbole isn't a serious argument. Try to refrain from over-doing it. Saying web was the only good second level spell just isn't true.

Again, choosing to use your limited resources as a wizard on defensive abilities is radically different game design than gifting players large hit point pools and the ability to wear fighter-equivalent armor and other gear.

2 hours ago, cokane said:

To add more, none of what you're saying about spell usage is accurate and it indicates that either it's been a long time since you played or your simply do not want to have an honest conversation about this subject for some reason. Which is weird, since you keep replying.

But some spells in the levels you mentioned were absolutely necessary to have around, in most party compositions. Talking about BG2 and mentioning fifth level spells as if Cloudkill was the only thing that mattered and not Breach, it's simply exasperating from my end to have to read sentences like that. You're clearly not interested in having an honest discussion with omissions like that.

I didn't say Web was the only good 2nd level spell. There's also Mirror Image, as I mentioned. Those two are simply in another league when compared to the likes of Scorcher and Know Alignment. In any case, the point remains that with a bit of game knowledge, mages made the best frontliners as soon as you could spam fireballs protected by your mirror image. This runs counter to your whole argument that BG/2 had such complex design and nuance in character development compared to modern games that give fighter types abilities beyond autoattack, when in reality mages were just broken, is all there is.

Breach is not strictly an offensive spell since all it does is remove combat protections, so your Fighters can autoattack mages. Which is really inefficient when you can just spam skull traps and insta-kill most of them, or disable them with Cloudkill and watch them run around like headless chicken because 1 point of damage meant automatic spell failure unless the creature was scripted to have uninterruptible casting. And then there were Liches and Rakshasas who were completely immune to all spells level 5 and under, including Breach, and could decimate any group of autoattackers without breaking a sweat. The solution was simply to keep spamming summons at them to exploit their penchant for wasting their most powerful spells on vermin, and then kill them with... Death Fog. Again, best frontliners (by proxy).

You're now saying that I don't want to have a honest debate and that things don't work the way I say, but everyone can see that I'm the only one using specific examples in this conversation, concerning the BG games and others. You, however, keep deflecting with generalities and subjective feelings. Do better.

BG2(EE) is a permanent fixture in my HD, btw.


- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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On 8/16/2019 at 11:46 AM, daven said:

I imagine it will be as Fallout 3 to Fallout 1/2. 

Hmm, nah, don't think so. We have still a party and Larian got good with those turnbased games. But it will have certainly more cinematics and all that, I think. Swen wants to be better with every game and I imagine he wasn't satisfied with the mostly textbased drama of the Original Sin-games. I think it will play like Original Sin, but look a bit like Dragon Age in conversations.

And to be honest,  the more I think about the game, the more hyped I get😄.

Edited by Harry Easter

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4 hours ago, Harry Easter said:

Hmm, nah, don't think so. We have still a party and Larian got good with those turnbased games. But it will have certainly more cinematics and all that, I think. Swen wants to be better with every game and I imagine he wasn't satisfied with the mostly textbased drama of the Original Sin-games. I think it will play like Original Sin, but look a bit like Dragon Age in conversations.

And to be honest,  the more I think about the game, the more hyped I get😄.

I didn't mean it will be an FPS. More that it will be a drastic turn and just merely use iconic things from the previous games but in a completely new/diferent genre.

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nowt

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Hmm.. some news next week it seems.. 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=maijYOOO-pE

 

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It looks like Larian wants to make it a AAA title from there newest video release, which would be amazing, just finished playing Dragon Age 1 and 3 for my first time and they were truly enjoyable, so I am all for the cinematic scenes.  I am finally catching up on all the RPGs for the past 12 years or so, and I am just gonna be honest, BG2 was never a game that broke any barriers or did anything that different, it just took the best of what games did in the past and combined them all in one, and it doesn't even hold a candle to the newer RPGs, add to that RtWP was such a hassle to get  used to it almost killed the experience for me, I am happy games are offering both options these days as I prefer turn-based.

Larian is gonna do a great job on this game, but I do believe the biggest criticisms are gonna come from them diverging from the combat mechanics of the tabletop version ... Larian had to much success with DOS2 for them to fully step away from the combat experience they created, which was pretty fun.


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On 2/20/2020 at 9:42 PM, bringingyouthefuture said:

and I am just gonna be honest, BG2 was never a game that broke any barriers or did anything that different, it just took the best of what games did in the past and combined them all in one, and it doesn't even hold a candle to the newer RPGs

That's an interesting point of view. When it comes to breaking barriers, you could well be right, but the rest of what you say about that shows that breaking barriers is in no way necessary: BG2 combined excellent storytelling, immersive world-use (can't say world-building because the Forgotten Realms were already there) and player-friendliness exceptionally well, which made it a classic.

As for it not even holding a candle to the newer RPGs, I'm simply going to flat-out disagree with you on that. And the fact that BG2 is still generally ranked very high in most "best RPGs of all time" lists will show you that your view is probably not that widely shared. However, what I'm more interested in is this: why do you think it doesn't even hold a candle to the newer RPGs, and what specifically are some of these newer RPGs? I'm very interested in your answer.

For me, BG2 is better than P:K, for instance. It is also a lot better than PoE, and better than Deadfire. Both P:K and Deadfire are veritable competitors, but BG2 edges them both out -- which is not to say that BG2 doesn't also have problems. Games like D:OS2 are so simplified and veer so strongly towards showiness (i.e. graphics) at the expense of proper writing that there isn't even any competition, BG2 simply wipes the floor with them.

Incidentally, this is not nostalgia talking. There are some old games that were absolute classics at the time and still remain viable, NetHack being by far the best example. That one is from 1987 and it's still superb. There are other old games that were brilliant at the time but are completely outdated now and not worth bothering with. Ultima IV, Ultima V and Dungeon Master are all good examples of this. Baldur's Gate 2 is old, but it hasn't become outdated. Everything works. Interestingly enough, Neverwinter Nights (which wasn't very good to being with, mostly because of the 3D approach and terrible storytelling) has aged a lot worse and looks simply unplayable these days.

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On 2/20/2020 at 1:42 PM, bringingyouthefuture said:

I...and it doesn't even hold a candle to the newer RPGs...

Like which ones?  I haven't seen evidence that there were more than a couple of those [actual RPGs] made in the last twenty years.

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I've been making this prediction on other forums and will do it here as well. Swen continues to claim he is making a "next-generation" RPG that is going to "revolutionize" the genre. What I think BG3 will be is a game that is very much in the style of a glitzy-graphics third-person perspective AAA action RPG, but where those games in the past have been RT/RTwP games this game will introduce TB combat into that AAA action RPG genre. This is what will then be passed off as next-gen/revolutionary/innovative/genre-breaking blah blah.

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So... turn-based Dragon Age 3?

I'm hoping it'll have stronger role-playing systems, at least. I'm not so concerned about the combat itself, unless they decide to copy the worst aspects of both the BGs and more recent RPGs, namely tons of filler encounters that one can get through mostly on autopilot.

Can't wait for the announcement of the announcement of the countdown to being delayed indefinitely.

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- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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I think TB is a bit too niche, especially if they're going for the big Diablo / WoW -bucks, and it's going to be a co-op multiplayer thing on Google Stadia etc. Hoping for RTwP. 

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I think it is safest to expect Divinity gameplay and writing in an FR setting. Which is fine, I enjoyed both of the recent games.

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2 hours ago, Junai said:

I think TB is a bit too niche, especially if they're going for the big Diablo / WoW -bucks, and it's going to be a co-op multiplayer thing on Google Stadia etc. Hoping for RTwP. 

Real time with pause is also niche.

If they wanna truly capture the modern gaming scene, they need to do 3rd person real time with no control over party members actions, but at the same time offer reactivity and choices and consequences.

It's the best of both worlds.

The Outer Worlds has literally done modern gaming almost perfectly.

Edited by ComradeMaster

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So BG3 will be turnbased or is that just a hope? Meh. Rtwp would be ok. Do we actually know what graphicstyle it'll be or are ppl just speculating still?


Edit: that dragon in the preview of the preview suggests 3d cutscenes anyway.

 

Edited by LadyCrimson

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Well..  looks a bit like the IE games.. :)

bg3.JPG.706e32f785538a8e32e83771553af056.JPG

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I think it will may contain a trace amount of dwarves.

Edited by Skazz

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I hope we get to be in the city of Baldur's Gate for more than the last quarter of the game.


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13 hours ago, LadyCrimson said:

So BG3 will be turnbased or is that just a hope? Meh. Rtwp would be ok. Do we actually know what graphicstyle it'll be or are ppl just speculating still?


Edit: that dragon in the preview of the preview suggests 3d cutscenes anyway.

Oh it's definitely not MY hope. I'm for RTwP all the way and will pass on the game if it is TB. I would much rather have a DA-style game than a D:OS-style game any day. And a BG3 that is essentially D:OS2 in the FR setting would be the worst of all outcomes.

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From that article at the link above:

Quote

License-holder Hasbro says there are a total of seven Dungeons & Dragons games in development, and the plan right now is to release at least one per year through 2025. The other one we know of now is Dungeons & Dragons: Dark Alliance, which was revealed at the 2019 Game Awards.

Holy Moley!

And this? Is this Dungeons & Dragons? Whelp!

Edited by IndiraLightfoot
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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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5 hours ago, IndiraLightfoot said:

From that article at the link above:

Holy Moley!

And this? Is this Dungeons & Dragons? Whelp!

Drizzt,Bruenor and Catti-brie?

And as so far I could remember,last game bears dark alliance title seems got a not that good reception...


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