Ukraine conflict - im Westen nichts Neues

[Lexx]

10 minutes ago, Malcador said:

WTF is with that upper band

They should mostly be people with military experience, which are needed.

[pmp10]

12 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

One intersting point on refugees. 

So far all the men capable of fighting are staying in Ukrainee and even some people working in Poland are packing to return to Ukraine. 

Funny because I didn't have this impression.
Social media is full of fit military-age men running for the border and no Ukrainian men in my professional environment is rushing back either.

[Darkpriest]

6 minutes ago, pmp10 said:

Funny because I didn't have this impression.
Social media is full of fit military-age men running for the border and no Ukrainian men in my professional environment is rushing back either.

I guess it depends, I've seen men packing, especially those who were to work on temporal assignments and those in construction and more labor intensive jobs. Usually also those over 30ish

Wont comment on the social media feeds, as thats dangerous area now. 

A vast majority is not 'eager' to fight, but they do stay and if it comes to worst, they said they will fight. 

That's the experience I've been shared with and videos in TV of refugees beyond Polish border seems to show in vast majority women, children and men unfit to fight, although you can occasionally pick some that could be of fighting age and form. 

[pmp10]

Interesting, might be geographical difference then.

I guess we will see soon enough. 
We are nearing 48 hours now and shock and awe ought to be letting off now.
I would expect resistance to either start hardening or collapsing at this point.

[kirottu]

Guys, I don't wish for Fallout Europe anymore. I think I have tempted fate one time too many. It's totally fine to keep Fallout games only on US soil, because we all know nothing interesting ever happens anywhere else.

[ComradeYellow]

2 minutes ago, kirottu said:

Guys, I don't wish for Fallout Europe anymore. I think I have tempted fate one time too many. It's totally fine to keep Fallout games only on US soil, because we all know nothing interesting ever happens anywhere else.

Can't wait for the 2024 election.  The world will know where we stand.

[Mamoulian War]

2 hours ago, Malcador said:

I thought Ukraine forbade men 18-60 (WTF is with that upper band) from leaving, though debatable who or how anyone is enforcing that.

That is also true, but as said above a lot of men are voluntarily going back to Ukraine from Europe, including almost all of Ukrainian doctors working in Slovakia.

EDIT: OFC a lot of men != all of men.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Mamoulian War

[Zoraptor]

7 hours ago, Chilloutman said:

well if our armies are only able to fight goat herders than whats the point of them?

I guess the snarky answer is that they didn't win against the goat herders anyway. But really, any small country is going to have issues with the military because they're really expensive, especially if they're western style.

If you have issues with the Czech military having a point imagine what it's like for New Zealand. Our combat airforce consists of 60 year old Orions/ Hercules with some antiship missiles bolted on. In terms of fighters we've got half a dozen spitfires and mustangs plus about a dozen kittyhawks, and a few decommed jets in private hands. Our armed forces literally only exist to bring aid to Tonga when there's a volcanic eruption, monitor fishing and do regional peacekeeping.

5 hours ago, Sarex said:

That looks fake as all hell.

While it's 100% fake- and has also been labelled at very least as a Ukrainian Su27 shooting down a Russian Su25 as well in different sources- probably the most pertinent thing is that you can't actually tell who is who anyway. It could just have easily been a Russian jet shooting down a Ukrainian one as the reverse.

1 hour ago, pmp10 said:

Social media is full of fit military-age men running for the border and no Ukrainian men in my professional environment is rushing back either.

Yeah. There's a massive disconnect between what social media 'says', and what social media 'shows'. If you go by what it says Ukraine is if not actually winning inflicting massive casualties, they're standing their ground and counterattacking, morale is high and thousands are spontaneously taking up arms. If you go by what it shows the picture is nowhere near as rosy. The amount of stuff that is posted because people want it to be true is ridiculous, and a lot of it comes from people who ought to know better (not singling out anyone here for that, it's mostly aimed at reporters and analysts posting every random claim as fact).

A lot of people especially on twitter seem to think that posting complete rubbish is good for Ukrainian morale. It isn't, the average Ukrainian couldn't care less and certainly isn't glued to their phone waiting for the latest from [at]keyboardwarrior69420 before picking up their AK and leaping into the fight after seeing a dozen imaginary Russians gunned down in ARMA3. Most of it is a masturbatory or commercial search for more follows by saying what people want to hear, along with a solid dollop of deliberate misinformation.

(if anyone wants the prime example look up Ghost of Kiev. Completely made up by someone wanting to sell merchandise, repeated as fact all over the place because people want a Ukrainian pilot to have shot down 6 Russian planes)

[kanisatha]

4 minutes ago, ComradeYellow said:

Can't wait for the 2024 election.  The world will know where we stand.

Sadly, my personal gut feeling is that it won't really matter in the end. Here's how I see things playing out. With a solid majority of Democrats not wanting to see Biden run for reelection, he will be forced into retirement by his own party. That will make him the worst of all lame-duck presidents, completely paralyzed and ignored in his last several months in office. His VP is even more disliked by voters, again including even just Democrats. This will provide the opening for the two worst people in America with ambition that knows no bounds. The presidential election will be a rerun of 2016: Clinton v. Trump. The American people, in turn, will be back to being viciously at each others' throats, torn into two camps that hate each other. Nobody in America will care about anything other than ensuring their side wins in November. If you were Putin or Xi, what would you do? Fall of 2024 will be the perfect time for Xi and Putin to make their big move to take down America and the West. It will also have the benefit of giving time for governments in London, Paris, and Berlin to also have steadily lost public faith and support, especially in the face of the vicious fallout and recriminations from Ukraine that already appear to have begun among European states. So I'm betting on September-October 2024 for the big explosion. Heck even the Iranians and North Koreans may be ready to join in at that point.

[Malcador]

6 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

if anyone wants the prime example look up Ghost of Kiev. Completely made up by someone wanting to sell merchandise, repeated as fact all over the place because people want a Ukrainian pilot to have shot down 6 Russian planes

Shame it came out as fake before Sabaton could compose some cheese-tastic BS song about him.

[Mamoulian War]

6 minutes ago, kanisatha said:

Sadly, my personal gut feeling is that it won't really matter in the end. Here's how I see things playing out. With a solid majority of Democrats not wanting to see Biden run for reelection, he will be forced into retirement by his own party. That will make him the worst of all lame-duck presidents, completely paralyzed and ignored in his last several months in office. His VP is even more disliked by voters, again including even just Democrats. This will provide the opening for the two worst people in America with ambition that knows no bounds. The presidential election will be a rerun of 2016: Clinton v. Trump. The American people, in turn, will be back to being viciously at each others' throats, torn into two camps that hate each other. Nobody in America will care about anything other than ensuring their side wins in November. If you were Putin or Xi, what would you do? Fall of 2024 will be the perfect time for Xi and Putin to make their big move to take down America and the West. It will also have the benefit of giving time for governments in London, Paris, and Berlin to also have steadily lost public faith and support, especially in the face of the vicious fallout and recriminations from Ukraine that already appear to have begun among European states. So I'm betting on September-October 2024 for the big explosion. Heck even the Iranians and North Koreans may be ready to join in at that point.

I know many of the Americans would probably not like to hear it, but the best what Europe could do now, is to strike deal with Iran, to get their gas instead of Russia's. If EU and NATO, can trade with no hesitation with Saudis, they can trade with Iran as well... There is absolutely no difference... From what I know, Iranian's at least are not in the last 10 years waging wars against they neighbour like Saudis in Yemen... it would at least show little bit of willingness from EU to actually help Ukraine...

[ComradeYellow]

32 minutes ago, kanisatha said:

Sadly, my personal gut feeling is that it won't really matter in the end. Here's how I see things playing out. With a solid majority of Democrats not wanting to see Biden run for reelection, he will be forced into retirement by his own party. That will make him the worst of all lame-duck presidents, completely paralyzed and ignored in his last several months in office. His VP is even more disliked by voters, again including even just Democrats. This will provide the opening for the two worst people in America with ambition that knows no bounds. The presidential election will be a rerun of 2016: Clinton v. Trump. The American people, in turn, will be back to being viciously at each others' throats, torn into two camps that hate each other. Nobody in America will care about anything other than ensuring their side wins in November. If you were Putin or Xi, what would you do? Fall of 2024 will be the perfect time for Xi and Putin to make their big move to take down America and the West. It will also have the benefit of giving time for governments in London, Paris, and Berlin to also have steadily lost public faith and support, especially in the face of the vicious fallout and recriminations from Ukraine that already appear to have begun among European states. So I'm betting on September-October 2024 for the big explosion. Heck even the Iranians and North Koreans may be ready to join in at that point.

So no hope for a neo-Lincoln or neo-FDR to appear in this time of crisis?  Perhaps  on a 3rd party ticket?

[Mamoulian War]

Apparently Zelenskyi and Putin agreed to have talks. They are currently picking a site. I hope Zelenskyi would not drop guard and agree for a cup of tea in Minsk...

[ShadySands]

6 minutes ago, Mamoulian War said:

Apparently Zelenskyi and Putin agreed to have talks. They are currently picking a site. I hope Zelenskyi would not drop guard and agree for a cup of tea in Minsk...

[Keyrock]

So I guess the Mayans were off by 10 years. 

[Sarex]

Things are going to get very ugly when the Chechens arrive...

[Darkpriest]

So far the 2020s keep on giving with each year passing. 2023 Taiwan? 

[Amentep]

10 minutes ago, Keyrock said:

So I guess the Mayans were off by 10 years. 

They forgot to carry the 2.

[majestic]

Anyone of you got a working IBM 5100? If yes, keep it safe.

Edited February 25, 2022 by majestic

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

3 minutes ago, majestic said:

Anyone of you got a working IBM 5100? If yes, keep it safe.

I did, but ended up giving it away to a guy with a weird laugh and a girl who kept saying tuturu.

[Malcador]

27 minutes ago, Sarex said:

Things are going to get very ugly when the Chechens arrive...

I thought they already were there

[InsaneCommander]

26 minutes ago, majestic said:

Anyone of you got a working IBM 5100? If yes, keep it safe.

Don't worry, you could always be transported to Terralysium by a mysterious angel and find yourself in the STD timeline.

[Sarex]

46 minutes ago, Malcador said:

I thought they already were there

Nope, I imagine that they don't want to use them in complete chaos of an opening of the invasion where they probably have 0 control over them. Tbh, I don't know how much control they will have at all apart from setting general objectives.

[kanisatha]

1 hour ago, Mamoulian War said:

Apparently Zelenskyi and Putin agreed to have talks. They are currently picking a site. I hope Zelenskyi would not drop guard and agree for a cup of tea in Minsk...

What I read was that Putin has offered talks but only if Ukraine surrenders first. I would guess that's a non-starter for the Ukrainians.

[Lexx]

For most people on the internet this is just entertainment. Next week it'll be boring again and already forgotten. Then everyone waits for the new season set in a different setting / country. Honestly, reading reddit threads and seeing the comments in the live streams is pretty disgusting.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Lexx