Empower. Do we want it or should it go?

[Teclis23]

Im not a fan of the empower ability and to be honest i would prefer if they got rid of it so the late game balancing on potd was better

 

What are people thoughts on this?

[Wormerine]

Empower? Oh, I forgot it exists.

[Hulk'O'Saurus]

Had some fun in party with empowered aoe blasts...

 

On solo potd+ I only recharge resources. I am not against it, though, to be fully honest, I don't really have an opinion on it. Perhaps that is because I am a battlemage fanboi(i.e. I only play battlemage in solo) and don't use the gimped melee classes. Perhaps there is something broken in the rogue/fighter/monk/barbarian side of things, but I wouldn't know about it.

 

Me? I'll take a reworked Arcane Dampener any day of the week... and a mute Narrator option. 

[MaxQuest]

Keep forgetting that it exists...

I think I used 1 empower per 10 rests on average so far. Heh, even had to constantly remind myself that I have Sasha's Singing Scimitar on a herald, during previous run.

 

On the other hand, refunding resources was handy during my first and blind encounter with The Messenger yesterday.

Edited September 3, 2018 by MaxQuest

[hilfazer]

Im not a fan of the empower ability and to be honest i would prefer if they got rid of it so the late game balancing on potd was better

 

Enemies wouldn't be able to use it as well. Not sure it would be better but surely more boring.

[Somnium_Meum]

The holy trifecta of Deadfire balance breakers

 

• Figurines - they should be either outright removed or reworked into "ghostly creatures". For example Imp Cameo would summon "Ghostly Imp" that can do damage at range but he's not targetable and therefore can't tank. Some summons can deal damage, others can buff, debuff or heal.
• Rest system - abusing rest after every fight or avoiding resting are severely altering game's balance. Rest should be possible only on world map or Tavern, it should have cooldown and there should be Fatigue similar to POE
• Empower either cheats more resources or adds considerable power to single ability. It's super effective on some abilities (multihit/bounce) while being useless on others (buffs) . I'd love to see Empower as "activator" for class-specific effects, for example if Wizard uses Empower on himself he can cast ANY spell that's accessible to his PL, Cipher can self-cast Echo spells, Ranger's Pet gets massive stat bonus for a while etc.

[dukeisaac]

I use empower to recharge abilities (play on POTD, but I'm not super good) and occasionally power up a spell. Conceptually, I'm not a huge fan though. Wouldn't mind having it removed !

[AndreaColombo]

I almost never use it.

[baldurs_gate_2]

Ofc, nobody that plays in a party, needs that crap. But for solo players in long fights, it is essential to regain some ressources, because you have only 1/5 of that, was a party has.

 

Oh wait, there is a damn solution. If you want to balance potd late game, JUST DONT USE EMPOWER AT ALL.

 

Not even the figurine nerf was necessary. They just had to make it impossible, to cast more than one figurine at the same time or for one encounter.

 

And the idea with the rest restriction is just bad. Some ppl would just enter the world map, rest, and go back in. Nothing more than a real time waste and i don't want that.

[Manveru123]

Don't use it if you don't like it.

[InsaneCommander]

I always forget about it. The first time I used it to recharge Serafen, he was already at level 20. It gives what, 100 focus? I missed it most of the game.

[cokane]

It's not a good system for this kind of RPG, IMO. It contributes to making the classes play too similarly. High-power abilities should be the most distinct things across the classes. That is, the abilities a player will use sparingly but which can have the greatest effect. That's how it should be in a party-based, tactical combat RPG.

 

Sadly, I think empower was a compromise for dumping all the per rest abilities. And it's simply not an interesting replacement.

[jww]

I don't think they should remove it for Deadfire, but if there's a third game, I would prefer if they didn't carry it over. I've always disliked this kind of feature dating way back to Final Fantasy 7's limit breaks.

 

If you balance a game against standard character builds that don't depend on Empower, then using Empower makes the game too easy. If you balance a game against the use of Empower, then the game becomes too hard for players who don't use it. The whole reason I play games like this is the theory crafting and experimenting with different builds to see how effective they are, and having Empower as a crutch is problematic.

 

And yes, you can avoid using Empower completely, but the game's been balanced around having it available, though that means different things to different people (e.g., extra resources vs. super-powered evocation spells vs. never using it), so the balance is a bit wonky throughout. I think it would be easier to balance the entire game from beginning to end if you didn't include the option of occasionally turning on superpowers.

[Teclis23]

If my vote means anything i want it gone.

 

It doesn't really achieve much (in terms of making the game more fun) and it just seems stupid that they are constantly doing all these class and item nerfs in patch releases and this ability exists.

 

Get rid of it please obsidian

Edited September 3, 2018 by Teclis23

[cokane]

If my vote means anything i want it gone.

 

It doesn't really achieve much (in terms of making the game more fun) and it just seems stupid that they are constantly doing all these class and item nerfs in patch releases and this ability exists.

 

Get rid of it please obsidian

 

I think this is an unreasonable request. It's simply too ingrained into the design. Personally, I've found it useful, even necessary, on a number of challenging early fights on a recent PotD run. Yes, I know you could technically work around this, but there's not a lot of tools available for players in the early game, and empower lets builds that are not optimized for low levels get through that tough stretch.

 

It's the only "per rest" resource in the game, meaning its removal would make resting/camping even more vestigial. I think it's fine to complain about features that are not working that well, but I think some players on here should be a little more realistic in their suggestions. If you want to actually be heard by Obsidian on this forum, you shouldn't contribute to the forum's noise ratio.

[Kampel]

 

The holy trifecta of Deadfire balance breakers

 

• Figurines - they should be either outright removed or reworked into "ghostly creatures". For example Imp Cameo would summon "Ghostly Imp" that can do damage at range but he's not targetable and therefore can't tank. Some summons can deal damage, others can buff, debuff or heal.
• Rest system - abusing rest after every fight or avoiding resting are severely altering game's balance. Rest should be possible only on world map or Tavern, it should have cooldown and there should be Fatigue similar to POE
• Empower either cheats more resources or adds considerable power to single ability. It's super effective on some abilities (multihit/bounce) while being useless on others (buffs) . I'd love to see Empower as "activator" for class-specific effects, for example if Wizard uses Empower on himself he can cast ANY spell that's accessible to his PL, Cipher can self-cast Echo spells, Ranger's Pet gets massive stat bonus for a while etc.

 

 

I can fix all that with this change:

Empower only refills after resting in an Inn only, you need to empower the Figurine to use it in battle.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Kampel

[uuuhhii]

all the per rest stuff are just weird and annoying

only good come out of it are adra potion

one play through only need two

[misterjimmy]

add enemy ambush when resting.

 

remove power source and get vancian casting back.

[asnjas]

Keep it.

 

It allows choice. I like the ideas of flexibility and strategic choices it brings.i can empower stealth strikes, heals, ccs or dd all based on current battle situations. Or i can replace ability points to try and save the day with extra skills. Its a fun ability. Period.

 

Im speecjless so many ppl want it gone. Like what is wrong with you. You can empower a single or ability or refresh more ability points. I smh when people insist on keeping supplies over empower.

 

I mean jesus. I got into wow lately and that games combat is so watered down and neutered i freaking fear the same will happen to this wonderful series.

[Fardragon]

Don't like it, it should go.

[Boeroer]

I like it only because of Sasha's Singing Scimitar.

[Erik Dirk]

Umm... Isn't the most obvious solution to allow players to turn it off, like expert mode. Empower related skills then get a 5% chance to happen?

[pi2repsion]

I like it only because of Sasha's Singing Scimitar.

Yep, that's the one item that makes me remember empower exists... once every fight starts with an empowered Eld Nary. That invocation scales so well with power levels, even before you get the tier 8 upgrade that sends it into wizard level destruction territory without any friendly fire (so long as you aren't fighting enemies with Arcane Reflection...)

 

On topic, I'd love for empower to go as I do not find it an interesting game mechanic. Used on abilities, it is either completely underwhelming because most abilities scale poorly with power level, or overwhelming because they scale well with power level. If your class has any of the latter abilities - and there aren't that many of them - that's what you'll be using it for (when you can remember), if not, it extends your power pool by 50%... when you remember it.

 

I like using empower with some of the few abilities where it is completely bonkers, but...

 

If your character doesn't have any of the latter abilities, and most classes don't, you are unlikely to use empower on abilities even if you remember you have it, and you could scrap the empower mechanic entirely and just give them +50% power pool in every encounter (and 2->3 spells) resulting in a better playing experience...

 

...and if your character does have one of the latter abilities, you could scrap empower, give +50% power pool and end up with a better balanced game.

 

So overall I think it would make for a better game to scrap the mechanic and just increase the power pool resources.

Edited September 4, 2018 by pi2repsion

[Somnium_Meum]

Umm... Isn't the most obvious solution to allow players to turn it off, like expert mode. Empower related skills then get a 5% chance to happen?

Randomness is really bad idea.

 

Keep it.

 

It allows choice. I like the ideas of flexibility and strategic choices it brings.i can empower stealth strikes, heals, ccs or dd all based on current battle situations. Or i can replace ability points to try and save the day with extra skills. Its a fun ability. Period.

 

Im speecjless so many ppl want it gone. Like what is wrong with you. You can empower a single or ability or refresh more ability points. I smh when people insist on keeping supplies over empower.

 

I mean jesus. I got into wow lately and that games combat is so watered down and neutered i freaking fear the same will happen to this wonderful series.

You fail to see problems it has.

• Right now you can pop Empower in every fight without any penalty. Encounters are scarce and you can rest after every encounter. Hell, you can split groups / drop combat with invis and Empower multiple times per "intended Encounter".
• Empower affects certain abilities much more than others. Spells that bounce, hit multiple times and/or apply debuff are much more affected by Empower than abilities that do straight damage/buff. Empowering Bounding Missiles is amazing, Empowering physical abilities/buffs/Summons is awful

This leads to 2 problems:

• It's impossible to balance around Empower. Player1 uses Empower as intended and uses it in difficult encounters. Player2 spams Empower in every encounter, so he has much stronger offensive spells or 50% more resources. If you balance PotD around Player1 it will be laughably easy for Player2 and if you balance PotD around Player2 then Player1 will feel awful as he would have to use abuse oversight/exploit to beat the game.
• Once you find optimal use of Empower you will always do that because it's just superior. On healer you'll be always empowering for more casts, on Evoker you'll always go for that multi-hit spell, on Assassin you'll always empower stealth attack. There's very little actual choice.

So, there are multiple solutions to this problem:

• Remove Empower
• Allow empowering subclass instead of spell or character. No more free resources, no more OP spells. Empowering no-subclass Wizard would allow you to cast any spell of your PL or lower, empowering Soul Blade would make you cast Reaping Knives on self, empowering no-subclass Ranger would give your pet massive combat boost for a while, Black Jacket would reload all his guns, Troubador would chant 2 phrases at same time for a while etc.
• Resting doesn't restore Empower points unless you rest in Tavern (doesn't fix the other issue)

[InsaneCommander]

add enemy ambush when resting.

 

And if it happens your party will still have their injuries. Also, a "surprised" affliction to make it even more dangerous.