Boeroer

Why does a Shadowdancer crit more than other Monk multiclasses with Stunning Surge?

Well, I was the one suggesting it in that other thread.

It can be very useful but is also a bit of a hassle. I can't say if it's worth the trouble in he long run - that may differ from player to player. It's hilarious and fun - but nothing I personally would do a whole playthrough with.

Substitute with Lance + Mule Kick until then. Also hilarious, but Lvl 13.

All two-handers got +1 PEN with patch 1.2 to improve them for balancing reasons. Because of that this special two handed battle-axe should also get +1PEN compared to a one-handed battle axe. If it hasn't that's clearly an oversight and should be reported and fixed. Of course it's not useless, far from it, but this is only due to its unique enchantments, not because it's a two handed axe. THis case is a precedent for all the folling ones where weapons of a certain proficiency but different handling style get introduced (think of Abydon's Hammer). For example: if Obsidian introduces a unique great sword that could be wielded with one hand once you reach 20 MIG, it should get -1 PEN compared to "normal" great sword once you use it with one hand only. If Obsidian introduces a two handed sabre that should get +1 PEN - because it occupies both hands.

I added both builds

@Ansalon: with Grave Calling and Hel Beckoning a Chanter can kill his own summons and turn them into imps. A great multiclass combo for this is a Beckoner/Berserker because his Carnage kills his very weak skeletons with the blade which will then spawn two big skeletons and one imp. If you kill those two as well you will have three imps. Since you are starting with 6 skeletons you can get 18 imps very quickly and as a bonus trigger Bloodlust and Blood Thirst. Also works with the skeleton you can summon with each phrase with the high lvl summoning chant. Same with Hel Beckoning and puny phantoms - but obviously the Grave Calling/Skeleton thing is better because you simply summon more skeletons than phantoms. Killing enemy vessels is just a nice bonus then.

Fighter/Wizard with Spirit Lance + Clear Out. Great combo of huge AoE damage, CC and awesome push effects. If only Deadfire hat body physics...

Right

Does it have the same base damage and two damage types?

Oy, I really have to update the list. Will do today.

You called me disingenous. But that's no problem, I'm not offended by it - so just forget it.

In a lot of ways: Interpret it as I meant it: "no point [making a tier list] when having no in-game experience with [several of] them" and "because judging weapons based on their description alone [and putting them into a tier list with others you did test] doesn't work well". Don't read something mean(er) into my sentences than there is. I never said you did zero tests nor that you have no in-game experience at all. I said a tier list is pointless because you put items in there that you have tested and ones that you haven't. The "no in-game experience" and "description alone" was aimed at those items, not all of your posts.

Sure! You are combining high dmg bonuses (Sneak Attack + Deathblows and so on) with a multiplicative lash (FoD). If you use a weapon with another lash that's great dmg per hit. Also Sneak Attack and stuff stacks with the +40% dmg beacon of the paladin. Retribution stacks with Sneak and friends. Riposte is there, too.

Yes. It means you do more ouch and receive more ouch.

I think there is no complete list yet. Open console, give yourself the item, use levelupsoulbind command and watch the screen that pops up after every soulbound-level-up. iroll20s giveitem LAX02_mace<tab> [bind soul with char] levelupsoulbind player_<tab> LAX02_mace<tab>

Correct

By the way - and that Ansalon got right but was critized - Miscreant's Leather is the best dps armor. That's because if you use Cutthroat Cosmo (or Abraham) the recovery penalty of the leather will be smaller than the 10% speed bonus you get from it. That means that you will be faster with Miscr. Leather + Cutthroat Cosmo than with a robe (+Cutthroat Cosmo ). AND you will have more AR as a bonus on top.

You are saying I have no in game experience but I do have 224 hours played with the game, a sizeable portion of which is spent just testing weapons. This is some pretty dumb ad-hominem bull****. I'm not claiming I have an objetive 140 IQ knowledge about every single weapon/class/build combination in the game, its just meant as a tool to help people theory craft. Im happy to update the post when people contribute in the discussion but it is after all based on MY OPINION, which any Tier List is ultimately going to be.You really have to calm down. I'm critizing your list, not you as a person. I wish we could keep it that way. And what's that about 224 hours of playing the game has to do with anything? I played the Deadfire beta for over 300 hours and until now put 650 hours into Deadfire - most of it is testing gear. Yet I couldn't do an objective tier list of items. Because I'm far from the point where I tested all weapons with all builds that might be good with them. How could I? It's too much stuff. That's why I usually only judge and recommend items I have used. Or at least discussed in the forums. And even then I make lots of mistakes because a patch can alter item behaviours - sometime secretly or I just missed some cool stuff although I used the item in-game. But based on your argument I should be doing at least 3 of those lists. But if I would make such a "complete" list it would be pointless as well. It's not about you - your approach is just so that I say it is not very useful. That might hurt you, but I don't attack you personally.

Then the list is of little relevance, right? Because judging weapons based on their description alone doesn't work well. Take Scordeos Edge: you can't know that its bonuses work for all weapons you use unless you used it. You'd have to test it to find out. Also that Grave Calling and Hel Beckoning can be used to summon imps that don't count towards the summon limit and let you create a huge imp army (if you pair it with the right classes) can only be experienced by testing (or reading people's posts about testing). Another example (not one-handed though): the Espirs estoc will proc Ghost Blades on kill. That's the description. Sounds rather lame because Ghost Blades only have 8-11 base damage. What the description doesn't say and what you can only find out via testing is that those Ghost Blades profit from the enchantments of the blade, from all passive abilities that work with the blade (e.g. Sneak Attach, Two Handed Style etc.). And that not only kills with the Blade trigger those "empowered" Ghost Blades but all kills as long as you hold the weapon. This includes the Ghost Blades themselves which can therefore proc themselves. So, the difference between description and actual behavior is huge. There are so many behaviors that only get revealed once you use an item - a tier list (partially) based on item description is rather pointless in my opinion. You are taking the statement "I haven't tested them all" and turn it into "I have done 0 tests" which is a strawman argument and very disingenuous.And you are using a personal attack to express your frustration. I never said that you did 0 tests. You said you didn't test them all - I say that the list is rather pointless then. Because some of your opinions are based on tests and some not. And we can't say which ones. So we can't trust your judgement on all of them because we always must fear that you didn't test that one particular item I'm interested in. This is not personal - I just don't think your list is good. If you will improve it in the future with edits, based on feedback then I will be happy to tap your shoulder - even though I generally think that tier lists in Deadfire are... difficult. Better make an informative list of pros and cons and recommendations for which build/role a certain item would be useful. But even a tier list would be ok. It will always be biased but as long as the infos around it are correct it's good enough.

Watershaper's Focus does two attacks with one shot (kind of Red Hand which does two shots with 0 recovery in between). Since the jump also works with Blast this weapon already does more dps than the Red Hand once used on mobs. Ondra's Wrath (which triggers often enough on groups of enemies without Driving Flight because of double Blast) is just a great bonus on top. Essence Interruptor is obviously one of the most powerful weapons in the game. I mean if you don't judge power solely on dps. Marking all foes which then can be killed by anybody and turn them into friendly creatures makes most fights with adds trivial. Summons are very powerful: destraction, decoy, a bit of damage, body-blocking. They are like a long lasting hard CC effect. Especially if there is not limit on the number of summons. Putting EI in a lower tier than Red Hand which can't do more than just killing single targets is not objective when you really want to judge power and usefulness and not simply make a "dps tier" list. And also here the core of the problem is: you didn't really use it - so the "real" usefulness evades you. Descriptions only can tell you so much about a weapon. You have to use it to be able to judge it objectively. Or discuss/read about such things and update your list accordingly.

Yes, please watch out when editing long posts. It also might happen that you edit something and on saving half of your post gets capped off. Best to write lengthy posts with lots of edits to come with some text tool and then just copy&paste it here.

@Ansalon: I gave constructive criticism - because I didn't simply say "hey it's crap" but wrote down why I think your lists are rather pointless (at least for me) and what could be improved. I also didn't claim that you got infos from wiki and in-game descriptions: you wrote so yourself. Calling that "hate" makes you look like a sensitive plant and not like somebody who really wants to discuss his stuff. I gave no insults, no personal attacks but just my personal opinion which in this case might feel harsh. But that doesn't mean I hate or that I don't appreciate the work you might have put into. I just don't think that the form you chose to present your work is very useful. That, and that your research isn't thoroughly done. If I wouldn't care at all or simply "hate" I wouldn't put that much time into answering to your stuff, naming examples and so on. I'm also not your boss. In your comparison I would be a colleague who says "it's pointless because X, maybe would be better to put it like Y".

*Entonia Signet Ring is supposed to give you +2 Defense per engaged enemy. No. That ring gives you +2 defense for every enemy who engages you - not the other way round. Like I explicitly explained with xaurips/tigers as example. And it works.

So you think "better" is only determined by dps?