List of Subclasses as we learn about them.

[injurai]

Are balancing issues really that big of a deal? Sometimes it's nice to have harder or easier builds, and with the amount of choice it seems relatively easy to tailor your build as you go.

 

I'm more worried about about bugs than anything.

[Boeroer]

We will have the beta. I will try out a lot of potentially OP stuff for myself and I guess a lot of players will do that, too. So maybe after the beta the most OP combos will get fixed.

 

Remember barb with Carnage + Jolting Toch from Azureith's Stiletto? Back in the days the spell strikings had no limit. Every crit triggered a Jolting Touch which got multiplied by Carnage. Enemy groups just got annihilated.

 

Ciphers' Draining Whip gave +3 (?) focus per hit, same with Carow Gholan. Devs forgot that blunderbusses do 6 hits with one shot, making it the no. 1 OP weapon for ciphers. Total focus overflow...

 

Similar stuff will happen in Deadfire I guess.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Boeroer

[Gromnir]

Are balancing issues really that big of a deal?

yes.

 

is old and much-worn terrain, but josh has a pinned post at twitter/tumblr addressing sp game balance.

 

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/161302725596/balance-in-single-player-crpgs#_=_

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps is worth repeating, as we ain't stated in a while, but goal o' balance should be equivalent viability and usefulness as 'posed to equality o' power.  try and make everything equal power is doomed.  if a particular multi class is underpowered compared to a single class barbarian with sub class ______, we don't much care.  as long as the multi class feels equivalent useful during encounters, am satisfied. even so, can't have you-win builds w/o costs.  can't have classes/multi classes so weak that only the hardcore role-player or folks looking for a unique challenge will play such a build.  goat and underpowered is to be avoided.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Gromnir

[injurai]

Well I agree with everything there, but I read your post more as a concern with regards to "multi-classing done by Josh Sawyer™" in general. I have no doubt the corner cases will cause great in-balances in both beta and early launch builds. Probably in early expansion builds as well. But when it's all said and done, I would welcome the final "soft imbalances" that the system would still allow. Which in my mind leave some fun variation to be had.

[MortyTheGobbo]

It's entirely fair to be concerned over multiclassing, I feel. It's a big minefield of balancing problems. Particularly if you add subclasses to the mix. We can hope and trust Obsidian to navigate it, but people with beta access need to be ready to try and break it in ungodly ways.

 

In 3e D&D, multiclassing is mostly an optimizer's thing. It can be very strong, but you need to optimize it. A casual player is more likely than not to create a weaksauce character who can't do anything particularly well. 4e has its hybrid thing, that I think has its own host of problems, and multiclass feats. Not sure about 5e. It has buffet-style multiclassing, but I think it also uses some scaling of key features, like in the last years of 3e.

[injurai]

I have no idea which e would be most similar to deadfire, but deadfire seems to be flying by it's own colors.

[Lampros]

Is there a good summary of overall changes or new features in PoE 2 anywhere? Thanks in advance!

[Wormerine]

Is there a good summary of overall changes or new features in PoE 2 anywhere? Thanks in advance!

Have a gander at Q&A streams at Obsidian's YouTube channel and Deadfire fig updates. That's pretty much the main sources. Sometimes something extra will slip through Josh's twitter or tumbler but those are mostly minor details or further explanations.

[PugPug]

 

Is there a good summary of overall changes or new features in PoE 2 anywhere? Thanks in advance!

Have a gander at Q&A streams at Obsidian's YouTube channel and Deadfire fig updates. That's pretty much the main sources. Sometimes something extra will slip through Josh's twitter or tumbler but those are mostly minor details or further explanations.

I believe the answer to his question is actually "no."

[Lephys]

I can't believe they didn't call the Fighter/Wizard a Sword-ceror. 6_u

 

Missed opportunity.

[algroth]

I can't believe they didn't call the Fighter/Wizard a Sword-ceror. 6_u

 

Missed opportunity.

It was too sharp a pun.

[Messier-31]

Cut it out, you guys.

[MaxQuest]

Just posting bonuses and penalties of few subclasses, since it's easier for me to check them here, than open the video each time:

 

Hellwalker:

Bonus:

- begin combat with 1 Wound

- gain +1 Might for each Wound they have

Penalty:

- take 5% for each Wound they have

 

Nalpazka:

Bonus:

- all drug effects last 50% longer

- generate Wounds while receiving the benefits of drugs

Penalty:

- crash penalties from drugs cause the monk to be unable to receive healing

- degenerate Wounds while not benefiting from drugs

 

Shattered Pillar:

Bonus:

- gain Wounds by melee weapon damage inflicted

Penalty:

- cannot gain Wounds from damage received

- required threshold to gain wounds increased

- max Wound limit is decreased

 

---

Conjurer:

Bonus:

- gain increased power level with Conjuration spells

- Conjure Familiar - familiars provide a useful passive effect

Penalty:

- lose access to spells from Evocation and Illusion schools

- +20% recovery time for wizard spells not of Conjuration school

 

Enchanter:

Bonus:

- gain increased power level with Enchantment spells

- Free Action - once per encounter when under effect of Hobble affliction, wizard can clear it and become immune to it for 10s

Penalty:

- lose access to spells from Illusion and Transmutation schools

- +20% recovery time for wizard spells not of Enchantment school

 

Evoker:

Bonus:

- gain increased power level with Evocation spells

- your evocation spells have a small (interesting how small??) chance to "echo", reapplying their damage and effects to their target again, immediately.

Penalty:

- lose access to spells from Transmutation and Conjuration schools

- +20% recovery time for wizard spells not of Evocation school

 

Illusionist:

Bonus:

- gain increased power level with Illusion spells

- once per encounter, when first attacked, automatically gain the effects of the spell "Mirrored Images"

- when empowering spells there is a 30% chance of refunding the Empower point

Penalty:

- lose access to spells from Conjuration and Enchanting schools

- +20% recovery time for wizard spells not of Illusion school

 

Transmuter:

Bonus:

- gain increased power level with Transmutation spells

- Form of Fearsome Brute - transform into Ogre; can't cast in this form, but physical attributes are increased.

Penalty:

- lose access to spells from Enchanting and Evocation schools

- +20% recovery time for wizard spells not of Transmutation school

Edited September 21, 2017 by MaxQuest

[Lephys]

Cut it out, you guys.

 

Sorry. From now on, our focus shall be... razor sharp. 6_u

[Boeroer]

Transmuter:

Bonus:

- gain increased power level with Transmutation spells

- Form of Fearsome Brute - transform into Ogre; can't cast in this form, but physical attributes are increased.

Penalty:

- lose access to spells from Illusion and Transmutation schools

- +20% recovery for wizard spells not of Enchantment school

Now I really want to play a Transmuter/Helwalker... aka Friar Truck. I so hope that you can still use class abilities after casting Citzal's Martial Power like you can with Arcane Assault or Grimoire Slam in PoE1. 

 

And I really hope that your weapons don't transform into a generic, useless, two handed club. Would be nice if one could just use Transcendent Suffering (fists) instead...

Edited September 21, 2017 by Boeroer

[SaruNi]

Just posting bonuses and penalties of few subclasses, since it's easier for me to check them here, than open the video each time:

 

Hellwalker:

Bonus:

- begin combat with 1 Wound

- gain +1 Might for each Wound they have

Penalty:

- take 5% for each Wound they have

 

Nalpazka:

Bonus:

- all drug effects last 50% longer

- generate Wounds while receiving the benefits of drugs

Penalty:

- crash penalties from drugs cause the monk to be unable to receive healing

- degenerate Wounds while not benefiting from drugs

 

Shattered Pillar:

Bonus: 

- gain Wounds by melee weapon damage inflicted

Penalty:

- cannot gain Wounds from damage received

- required threshold to gain wounds increased

- max Wound limit is decreased

 

---

Conjurer:

Bonus:

- gain increased power level with Conjuration spells

- Conjure Familiar - familiars provide a useful passive effect

Penalty:

- lose access to spells from Evocation and Illusion schools

- +20% recovery for wizard spells not of Conjuration school

 

Enchanter:

Bonus:

- gain increased power level with Enchantment spells

- Free Action - once per encounter when under effect of Hobble affliction, wizard can clear it and become immune to it for 10s

Penalty:

- lose access to spells from Illusion and Transmutation schools

- +20% recovery for wizard spells not of Enchantment school

 

Evoker:

Bonus:

- gain increased power level with Evocation spells

- your evocation spells have a small (interesting how small??) chance to "echo", reapplying their damage and effects to their target again, immediately.

Penalty:

- lose access to spells from Transmutation and Conjuration schools

- +20% recovery for wizard spells not of Evocation school

 

Illusionist:

Bonus:

- gain increased power level with Illusion spells

- once per encounter, when first attacked, automatically gain the effects of the spell "Mirrored Images"

- when empowering spells there is a 30% chance of refunding the Empower point

Penalty:

- lose access to spells from Conjuration and Enchanting schools

- +20% recovery for wizard spells not of Illusion school

 

Transmuter:

Bonus:

- gain increased power level with Transmutation spells

- Form of Fearsome Brute - transform into Ogre; can't cast in this form, but physical attributes are increased.

Penalty:

- lose access to spells from Illusion and Transmutation schools

- +20% recovery for wizard spells not of Enchantment school

 

 

Very glad to see the subclass bonuses/penalties aren't just those listed in what Sawyer posted. The Wizard subclasses look much more interesting now. 

[injurai]

Just to note: You want low recovery. Recovery has to due with time, so increasing it by a percent is a penalty. One of the more awkwardly named variables in the pillarsverse.

[MaxQuest]

One of the more awkwardly named variables in the pillarsverse.

After checking the video again, penalty descriptions actually explicitely write: recovery time. Not just [recovery] which could lead to ambiguity between duration and speed. That's a step forward

I will edit my post.

Edited September 21, 2017 by MaxQuest

[Dr <3]

Transmuter:

Bonus:

- gain increased power level with Transmutation spells

- Form of Fearsome Brute - transform into Ogre; can't cast in this form, but physical attributes are increased.

Penalty:

- lose access to spells from Illusion and Transmutation schools

- +20% recovery for wizard spells not of Enchantment school

Are you sure transmuter lose access to his own school?

[injurai]

It's also awkwardly named to be, because I think of recovery having to due with getting hit and then recovering. But here it's talking about a delay between your own actions, recovering from the action you had just previously made. But now that I know, I'm not sure I want it to be changed

[MaxQuest]

Are you sure transmuter lose access to his own school?

Oops, corrected)

 

---

As for alternative names for recovery..: recreation, repose, inter-action rest, procrastination... nothing comes to mind that sounds good and fitting enough

Edited September 21, 2017 by MaxQuest

[rjshae]

Just to note: You want low recovery. Recovery has to due with time, so increasing it by a percent is a penalty. One of the more awkwardly named variables in the pillarsverse.

 

They could have called it "cool down", but then certain people would freak.

[injurai]

They could have called it "cool down", but then certain people would freak.

 

Cool downs are usually per ability, and can be used in-junction with recovery. Where does the term cool down come from anyways? It's always come across as very Blizzardish to me, but maybe it's because they abuse it more than anyone else.

 

edit: My 1000th post, so this is what being a Warlock feels like!

Edited September 21, 2017 by injurai

[blotter]

As for alternative names for recovery..: recreation, repose, inter-action rest, procrastination... nothing comes to mind that sounds good and fitting enough

 

 

Momentum, maybe?

[JerekKruger]

The extra bonuses that specialist Wizards get nice* but I'm still not sure whether they are worth losing access to two other schools. I wonder why Obsidian went with removing access to two schools rather than AD&D's one school.

 

* The Evoker's and Illusionist's look to be the best, the Conjurer's could be very good depending on how good their familiars are, the Enchanter's needs to be able to clear more than just Hobble to be worth it in my opinion and as cool as the Tramsuter's sounds I suspect it won't be great.

 

As for alternative names for recovery..: recreation, repose, inter-action rest, procrastination... nothing comes to mind that sounds good and fitting enough

 

Delay is the best I can come up with, though it's still not great.