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Gromnir

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Gromnir last won the day on September 22

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About Gromnir

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    Constitutional Law, rugby union, GUT, kittens, Fritz Haber, dutch oven cooking, Shakespeare, afternoon naps & James Joyce

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  1. Gromnir

    Politics 2020

    as an alternative, am gonna suggest gołąbki. maybe takes a tiny bit more effort but is a superior culinary experience using similar basic ingredients... and no bell pepper. absence o' bell pepper is kinda key. however, for those individuals who ordinarily is a bit heavy-handed with spices and herbs, authentic gołąbki may be a bit on the tame side. consider use o' spicier varieties o' your pork-based meat, and it might be worth adding a bit o' bacon. even if is not called for in a recipe, marjoram is worthy o' consideration. so too is thyme and/or parsley. perhaps a bit o' chicken stock too. ordinarily, salt, pepper and garlic is kinda the totality o' the flavor enhancers used in the dish, and is more than enough w/o adding to the spice table. am recommending first time making, look for a recipe with only the salt, pepper and garlic options. to stay more topic relevant, am gonna say the nyt article regarding trump taxes does suggest a kinda ponzi scheme for the trump organization. the individual businesses is almost all losers, which is good for taxes, but to sustain the scheme, new cash must be constant injected into the organization, which were ez during the apprentice years but that source dried up and thus the need for soon-to-be-due extravagant loans followed by the run for President to boost the sales o' the trump name. am not in any way shocked or surprised, but there needs be a whole lotta people complicit in sustaining the trump organization in spite o' the fact it doesn't sell anything other than trump, and nothing 'bout the trump image is real. not his charitable works. not his education. not his business success. not even his hair. "I called his plane Hair Force One, for good reason. Trump doesn’t have a simple combover, as it would appear. The operation was much more involved than a simple throw-over of what was left of his hair: the three-step procedure required a flop up of the hair from the back of his head, followed by the flip of the resulting overhang on his face back on his pate, and then the flap of his combover on the right side, providing three layers of thinly disguised balding-male insecurity. The concoction was held in place by a fog of TREsemme TRES Two, not a high-end salon product. Flip, flop, flap, and there was the most famous combover in the world. "The real reason for the extravagant and obvious overcompensation for his baldness was vanity, and the desire to appear younger and more vigorous than he was. But there was another unknown reason: he was hiding unsightly scars on his scalp from a failed hair-implant operation in the 1980s. That was the disfiguring operation that resulted in his furious “emotional rape” of his first wife Ivana, as she documented in a lawsuit in the early ’90s; like Samson, Trump believed his virility and image were harmed if he was seen to be losing his hair, or, even worse, injuring himself in an attempt to disguise male-pattern balding." -from cohen's tell-all book. it is disappointing that a third-rate version o' pt barnum managed to con folks into electing him... sold 'em nostalgia and fear. ye good old days for rust belt factory workers. fear o muslims and immigrants. never produced anything worth mentioning save a tax cut which requires improbable sustained 4% growth which were never gonna happen. such stoopid may have even got him re-elected, but then the pandemic hit and trump did less than anybody thought possible... save the china travel ban which didn't actual ban travel from china. 40k americans were allowed to travel from china w/o any real testing, contact tracing or quarantine measures. all the travel ban did was caused a mad dash o' infected americans to return home to the US from asia... and then europe. regardless, with the bumbling incompetence o' his handling o' the pandemic being particular troublesome for his base (old people dying and working class americans unable to benefit from telecommuting) trump repackaged what worked in 2016, but this time he sold fear o' fellow americans like blm and radical democrats such as joe biden. joe biden? we laugh when it is a movie. we laugh when is somebody else. when is 1/3 of the US population... not so funny. HA! Good Fun!
  2. Gromnir

    Politics 2020

    am not making excuses for trump, but we will note how real estate offers serious opportunities to minimize fed and state taxes. for example, you are able to carry a business loss forward for many years. during the recession, on paper, we lost millions o' dollars and our operating costs considerable exceeded our income. 'course the cost to buy property also dropped to improbable lows and with substantial cash at hand we were able to functional double our real estate investment in a couple years. if we had been so inclined, we coulda' bought homes in foreclosure on courthouse steps for pennies on the dollar, though such stuff weren't our mo. all those properties we owned previous to the recession has regained value and much o' the new stuff we purchased literal increased in value by a factor o' more than five. we carried forward the loss and we don't pay any new tax for increased value until we sell... and capital gains is already lower than almost the lowest tax brackets in the US. furthermore, 'cause our properties were rental properties, much like trump, we were able to use the current 3.63% annual depreciation to serious mitigate whatever tax bill we would have... in spite o' the fact our property values were near universal trending up in value as 'posed to down. as such, last year were the first year since 2009 we paid any fed taxes, and that is 'cause we retired and sold/donated a bunch o' property the previous year. is one reason we keep pointing out how important it is to address the current capital gains scheme for any property save personal residence. well, that and the hedge fund exception. ... trump and the republicans boast 'bout the tax cut, trump's signature Congressional supported action during the past four years. the tax cut helped small business owners and the rich. the rich sure didn't need any help. we don't have any excuses for the melania stuff. am suspecting trump did/has done all kinda borderline stuff which even if legal is gonna look dirty. don't know w/o seeing taxes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMChd6QchaU romney allegations were almost entire fabrications or misleading and harry reid were complete unapologetic 'bout the accusations. 'course the difference is romney did release his taxes. HA! Good Fun! ps you don't need be smart to avoid paying taxes. being rich means you can afford to pay somebody knowledgeable 'bout state and fed tax codes to do your taxes for you. we took one tax class in school. we sure as hell ain't no expert and no matter how smart you are, you ain't gonna intuit tax law as it is frequent counter reason and counter intuitive.
  3. Gromnir

    Politics 2020

    have mentioned this in the food thread, except for the southern cook's mirepoix (green bell pepper, celery, onion) for things such as red beans and rice, we never would use green bell pepper. the difference 'tween your fancy red pepper and a green bell pepper is that the green is not yet ripe. is not as if it is a different variety o' pepper from the red. green bell pepper tastes a bit like red wine which has turned. am not joking. pyrazines is a thing in green bell pepper which is one o' the components in bad wine. we don't drink wine and only use for cooking, but we nevertheless may recognize when the liquid has turned and the stink o' mushy green peppers is a dead give away. as to the weirdness regarding artistic displays, am suspecting there is some dishonesty going on, but we do not believe it is intentional. at the moment, portland is every republican's favorite metropolis punching bag, or mayhap chicago if you are a midwesterner. imagine portland city hall sponsors an art display to commemorate the current protests and the winning submission is a work entitled old glory-- is a dented and rusted metal trash can haphazard wrapped in a filthy and scorched american flag, with the trash can filled with what appears to be used condoms. three years from now, portland recognizes that old glory were a mistake and they wanna get rid o' it. whatever message it were meant to send were sent already and clearly if portland wants to remove, they learned another valuable lesson already. is portland and the people o' the city forced to endure old glory in perpetuity 'cause it were deemed to be art by some small group o' folks in 2020? why? would the folks demanding the integrity o' confederate memorials and too white for comfort murals see old glory as similar? how 'bout a bronze statue o' jesus relieving himself on the Constitution? bob can buy the statue and put it in his garden for a couple years before he realizes whatever shock value were intrinsic to it has worn off and then remove it to the basement... or even destroy it if he so wishes. nevertheless, the people o' portland don't have the same options as bob? am betting regardless that at least a few o' the evangelicals who see it as a yet another example o' the bankrupt morality o' the left that they wanna destroy a university o' ri mural would take less than a nanosecond to agree that our (not complete imagined) jesus statue could/should go from a public prominent display to the ash heap o' history. we didn't attend school much as a kid. were literal a multi-hour bus ride each way and the school were criminal understaffed. we do recall one class which were an amalgam kindergarten - second grade grouping and we specific recall a lesson plan wherein students were tasked with completing an art project using popsicle sticks. students were provided two or three dozen popsicle sticks and told to use at least the popsicle sticks provided in the construction o' their art, though they could request more. is always that one kid. the one kid from our class made a veritable squadron of airplanes. were nothing more than crosses, though he took a stab at adding tail /rudders to his first couple attempts. regardless, d-bag kid, who is probable a state senator today, made a squadron o' planes as his art. how long is such art deemed worthy o' preservation? the kid's only real motivation were to as quick as possible finish a chore he were disinclined to voluntary participate... motivation as similar transparent as the builders o' o' the stone mountain carving in the 1920s, with their efforts supported by calvin coolidge, perhaps the most unabashed nativist President we ever had in office and stephen miller's personal jesus. call us suspicious when we is told that the veneration o' memorials in perpetuity is so we might learn from mistakes o' the past is being championed by crowds o' people waving confederate flags. should recognize a disconnect. again, am thinking it is wrong to destroy the university o' ri mural. big talk from Gromnir who sure as hell wouldn't pay the shipping costs simple to have it moved cross country to some storage locker in norcal where it would be prominent displayed to spiders, crickets and mice for some number o' years or even decades until our eventual death. art wins the day? HA! Good Fun!
  4. Gromnir

    Politics 2020

    fixed btw, the trump strawman where you try and knock the stuffing out o' the President being blamed for riots position ignores what we believe is the more common and hard to refute argument that the President has exacerbated political and racial divisions and has done more than a little to make existing protests more violent with his inarguably extra Constitutional responses. on the long list o' causes and accelerants o' the protests, trump should figure prominent... save for in the fox news bubble. as to the mural, everybody loves democracy, right up until people start asking for and doing things some o' us believe is stoopid. imagine into existence a jerk so offended by norman rockwell paintings and their saccharine americana that he buys every one he can get his hands on and then burns 'em. converse, another dirtbag buys original manuscripts and author notes o' maya angelou and uses the shredded paper as kitty litter. admitted vulgar uses o' wealth in both cases, no? whether is groups or individuals, right to the quiet use and enjoyment o' private property or real property is one o' those basic rights @Guard Dog is gonna get his dander up regarding. just 'cause something is old don't mean it got some particular value to the public at large, unless the public so decides... and the public is then free to change their minds regarding the cultural worthiness o' such objects. democracy is fickle. one o' our +80-year-old aunts (though am wondering if black magic might be involved 'cause she could very well be 800 based on family stories) gots wallpaper in her home which predates the mural in question. no doubt the person who designed the wallpaper thought they were an artist or craftsman, and our aunt likes it. is her wallpaper any less art than the mural? why? her wallpaper may be the last remaining example o' that particularly hideous design anywhere in existence. please, make it so. we need have the paper steamed off the walls and removed to a museum if our aunt finally decides to make decor change? am personal thinking it is stoopid to destroy the mural. only thing such destruction proves is the lack o' character o' the folks bent on the destruction. that said, is not Gromnir's mural. the university owns the mural and is responding to the will o' what is effective their constituency. we would hope the university of rhode island could be as enlightened as university administrations is in our imagination. *snort* thanks in part to the polarization, fear and anger medicine dan don't wanna blame trump for at all, we got large sections o' the population who feels justified in their need for retribution. can't reach the real causes o' student anger? well, the mural represents one o' the evils they believe is being ignored... or somesuch. destroy it. university o' ri has the right to do whatever they want with the mural. if destruction will foster a more healthy student learning environment, then they has an excuse for destruction, but somehow this feels to us like a teachable moment. there should be an opportunity to bring the community together and listen and educate. more than the mural itself, am disappointed the university don't appear to be doing more to take advantage o' an opportunity for learning... though given just how polarized and divided is our national population, expecting more from a university community may be naive on our part. am eternal hopeful 'all those dumb university students who don't know enough to realize how pointless is their efforts will nevertheless manage to save us from ourselves. HA! Good Fun!
  5. Gromnir

    Politics 2020

    seth rich? as we said, trump efforts to undermine the democratic process with tales o' sinister plots appeals to those with a high degree o' bullsh!t receptivity. is a transparent ploy but it is, beyond all reason, effective. the conspiracy theories themselves are utter banal, but they is helpful in identifying those vulnerable souls in need o' special care and consideration. HA! Good Fun!
  6. Gromnir

    Politics 2020

    Temp worker tossed Pennsylvania ballots Trump complained about, official says so, where is the story? is a bit like when the heritage foundation uncovered nearly 1000 examples o' state and fed voter fraud... over the past forty years. particular as the usps removed so many high-speed mail sorting machines, we should expect a few stories o' human error regarding the mails. we are talking hundred o' millions o' mail transactions. where human error is possible, examine a large enough pool o' examples and potential human error becomes inevitable. the usps should work harder to reduce human error, but pretend as if these extreme rare news stories is indicative o' a fundamental flaw o' mail in voting, much less the bat-crap crazy effort to spin predictable blunder as a leftist plot to steal the election is more transparent trump silliness... and like so much similar siliness, is more meaningful to track who posts and appears convinced by such tinfoil hat fodder than to waste effort on the stories themselves. HA! Good Fun!
  7. Gromnir

    Politics 2020

    hitler? he was a populist who used police state efforts to not only marginalize minority groups but to brutally murder millions. you are offering up the 20th century's most glaring example o' why we should fear a tyranny o' the masses and somehow take a single quote you kinda recall and use it to complete spin what happened in nazi germany? not a good chance for baldwin or bellafonte. next time perhaps. what is in the water 'round here? first numbers reinvents mlk and now you wanna do same with hitler? who is next? find out mother teresa didn't care about the poor but secretly she had a garbage fetish. truth is she just loved the sound of flies buzzing and the stench from open latrines. HA! Good Fun!
  8. Gromnir

    Politics 2020

    it's actual a perfect fine and reasonable system for what the President is s'posed to be. 1787 President had no armies to command and the bureaucracy was almost non existent... weren't even a post office 'til 1791 or maybe 1792. whatever. President were not s'posed to be democratic elected anymore than were the Supreme Court. elitist? perhaps, but our Constitution were a rejection o' athenian democracy and an acknowledgement o' the dangers o' the tyranny o' the masses. Congress were the perceived real danger and the founders found multiple systemic ways to check the power o' Congress. have a President chosen by wise men from every town and burg in the nation? those wise men could not serve public office and could not repeat as electoral college members. electoral college were never intended to be democratic and were purposeful insulated from the potential tyranny o' the masses. fact the electoral college were eletist were viewed as its strength. we didn't want a philosopher king here in the US, but the President could kinda embody some o' the best aspects o' such in a much diminished capacity. sure, Congress would have all the real power, but when dealing with foreign nations it made sense to have a singular voice acting on our behalf. have the President be the wisest of wise men chosen by the wisest and most incorruptible men in the US? President wouldn't have much real power anyway, so... the founders likely never woulda' imagined Congress willingly ceeding powers to the office o' the Presidency to the degree which has occured. am one o' those folks who has actual read the federalist papers wherein the dangers o' the new government is explored and reflected 'pon. our modern Presidency is just so utter alien to the founders notions o' that office that am thinking is unfair to blame the them for their missteps regarding the electoral college. the Presidency evolved through an organic alchemy o' a thousand act o' Congress and subsequent decisions by the Court. unfortunately, the electoral college needs be changed by an Amendment or by a new Constitutional Convention. with the nation as polarized as it is today, good luck getting an Amendment or Constitutional Convention to change the electoral college. from a practical pov, is much easier to take power away from the President and return the office to its origins. @Guard Dog should be lobbying for a democrat clean sweep, 'cause as much as he fears the democrats, am suspecting one o' their first orders o' business will be to serious diminish the office o' the President. emergency powers nonsense? gone. acting appointments? gone. doj independence? gone. etc. heck, am suspecting the best scenario for gd is a continued trump Presidency and a Democrat house and senate. am personal terrified o' such, but we can see the Democrats near complete shutting down the office o' the President, and just as with the appointment o' Ginsburg's replacement in the last month before an election, it will be Constitutional and legal to do so, regardless o' the consequences. putin is laughing his arse off. HA! Good Fun!
  9. Gromnir

    Politics 2020

    to be fair, stand your ground has little relevance. if you are in your home, and you are confronted by an armed assailant, you got the right to defend yourself with lethal force. period. "duty to retreat" is law in a few jurisdictions, but as far as we know, it does not apply to a person's home. home is different. castle doctrine is a confusing sub-issue. what the castle doctrine does is that in states where there is a duty to retreat, the home is an exception. castle doctrine is further confused 'cause in a select few states, the castle metaphor is extended to your personal vehicle and possibly even your place o' work. a no-knock warrant is an issue almost nowheres save a personal residence 'cause cops don't need worry 'bout the knocking save in homes. stand your ground sounds like an issue, but isn't. homes is different. HA! Good Fun!
  10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIpgdo9Ab38 am recalling one o' those old nfl films with john facenda narrating and floyd peters shared a memory o' tackling gale sayers. “He gave me a fake, and my body went one way, my mind went the other way, and something happens to your motor when that happens,” Peters said. “It’s hard to explain. But my legs went limp and I had nothing left. “The only problem was, Gale made one too many fakes and came back into me. I hit him and knocked him down and he said, ‘Nice tackle, Floyd.’ I told him, ‘I didn’t tackle you. You ran into me.’” greatness o' gale sayers didn't end with football. the chicago area has any number o' children's centers and youth organizations which were built or aided by mr. sayers. he will be missed.
  11. Gromnir

    Politics 2020

    the truly terrible part is that ms. taylor died. am not gonna try and diminish the significance. what we will say is that in spite o' the fact we can all see there were wongs done, is unlikely anything will change. focus will be on the individual cops who executed the warrant. that is good news for the establishment. all the energy o' protesters and celebrity support will go to the perceived injustice o' the cops not going to prison. we got a well armed public. no-knock warrants is purposeful designed so as to catch occupants by surprise. people who is surprised or caught off guard tend to act impulsively and mistakes are more likely to occur. ... the syllogism writes itself from there, no? this is all utter predictable. sure, we don't want suspected criminals to get away with destroying evidence, but there is a human cost attached to that legit government goal. we cannot current change the fact that the public is well armed and dangerous. armed public is as much a given as is the increased chances for surprise and accident from no-knock warrants, and no-knock warrants is just one aspect o' the tragedy which is unlikely to change. @Guard Dog we do keep saying that all obsidian message board posts is potential star trek relevant. your efforts is a bit more overt than most, but am appreciating the support... intentional or otherwise. HA! Good Fun!
  12. *chuckle* mic drop moment? HA! Good Fun!
  13. Gromnir

    Politics 2020

    apologies for the double-post, but #s is offended by our posting economy. the problem is the law. if people do not like the law, they should change it. don't get confused by right and wrong. this is grand jury and the grand jury has gotta decide if there is a possibility o' prosecution. the problem is the cops had a warrant and the cops were acting in good faith to execute the warrant. is not as if the cops knew the warrant was bad or that there were insufficient evidence for them to have a legit warrant. is not a dirty cop situation. like it or not, the cops were protected by law when they broke into ms. taylor's house... right or wrong. blame state legislature. blame judge for ok o' the warrant. blame investigating cops. dunno, lots o' blame to go around. however, the cops, as far as the law were concerned, were carrying out a warrant and as such they could be in ms. taylor's home and they could act in self defense even if they were otherwise trespassing. maybe that feels wrong, but is not the cop's fault. once the cops were fired 'pon... has been a serious disservice done as the public has not been told what is the law. is much easier to focus on right and wrong. we all know that ms. taylor dying were a wrong. problem is that the the only cop who did anything obvious illegal is the guy outside who did the idiotic spray and pray routine once somebody inside the house, somebody not the cops, shot and wounded another cop. say the cops shouldn't go to prison for murder is hardly the same as saying law enforcement is blameless or that ms. taylor is undeserving o' justice. were a whole lotta mistakes made, and the law itself is busted, but am thinking people are too focused on the wrong wrongs. HA! Good Fun!
  14. Gromnir

    Politics 2020

    oh, this will be the last post. a few posts previous we were told you didn't even bother to read the posts we made. but congrats on your moment o' clarity... a couple pages later and a half dozen posts removed. the only person talking 'bout reporting a mod or some kinda mod response is you. qq much? nevertheless, 'cause is a mod involved driveby, our little conflict, which started 'cause you didn't like our on-topic response to your misquoting, and then decided to abandon any effort to discuss any topic save you and Gromnir, poor dear, gets a couple extra posts o' mod indifference before the inevitable warning... which should be unnecessary as #s is a mod. *chuckle* go figure. so, "idpol"... we all agree is a shibboleth yes? is infinitely fungible and largely meaningless in and of itself, but as soon as somebody uses, it is an extreme accurate predictor o' the content o' the remaining post. is a bit like "feminazi." trying to reduce mlk to better fit the idpol narrative you concocted were a mistake, a blunder. your response were to not address the blunder but to qq at Gromnir. happy. on-topic w/o any additional quotes. didn't make much difference calling out that point, did it? and us poor mortals down here at the base o' olympus who do not share your grand experience and knowledge o' modding (*snort*) will need do as has always been our rule and ignore what is claimed and instead to observe what is done. HA! Good Fun!
  15. Gromnir

    Politics 2020

    do the same for Gromnir. serious. not hard. only one other poster we has ever previous directed the qq, and you followed the exact same trend. sure, you didn't have the self-awareness to recognize how you were being chastised. have no doubt behind the scenes mods has been admonished. tn had a little flip-out a while ago and while am certain Gromnir woulda' been scolded public, we wouldn't be shocked if tn were admonished private. however, try and pretend as if mods don't get more freedom and more benefit o' the doubt from fellow mods is ludicrous. there will be an eventual general warning to stay on-topic and not discuss the motivations o' other posters, an admonishment #s will ignore... which would be no biggie if he were just another poster, but he has been given responsibility. and still not even trying to be on topic? all the recent board warnings, but a mod can't seem to follow board guidelines? have never resorted to the report function as is pointless. we do find public shaming has a tendency to fix behaviour or drive the violator to even more extreme behaviours. win either way. no james baldwin? harry belafonte is much underappreciated by the current generation as he is known most as an entertainer. mr. bellafonte were a guest on the muppet show and sesame street (multiple times.) given the ludicrousness o' continued off-topic and extended qqing o' #s. a sesame street number feels increasing appropriate. tougher call to make. that said, obama and reid had already shown a willingness to violate long standing government norms. however, they did specific tap the brakes at the Supreme Court. when filibuster for appointees were exorcised, the democrats, perhaps outta guilt but mayhap in a moment o' clarity, stated Supreme Court Justices were not affected by their alteration o' senate rules. your hypothetical suggests the democrats, who in spite o' their underhanded efforts to alter Congressional norms to suit their current needs but nevertheless insulated the Supreme Court from their actions, would so soon afterwards show a callous willingness to burn it all down. you could be right. naked opportunism is the current situation. the problem is four years has changed so much. much o' what we all thought were impossible four years ago has already happened. with every trump violation and excess which the senate allowed, they made it that much more possible to excuse the next mistake. describe 2020 to any senate republican in 2015. unilateral government shutdowns. ignoring Congressional power o' the purse and pilfering from discretionary funds to force through construction specific denied by Congress. 1000 former prosecutors accuse the President o' obstruction of Justice. attempt to bury an IG report from reaching Congress 'cause it makes the President look bad. send federal troops to states and localities where they routine ignore due process rights o' those detained. dozens o' other examples. the current Court situation were made possible by the democrats, harry reid and obama back in 2013. the reason why is happening, as has so much else, is 'cause somewhere between 2016 and today, the republicans gave in and became the party of trump. it were not an overnight thing. the problem is, the democrats ain't what they were in 2015 neither. clinton and the dnc underhanded efforts to prevent bernie from gaining the nomination helped split the party and the last two years (in particular) o' trump has polarized democrats even further. as angry as were republicans in 2013, democrats is more furious in 2020, and there is more than a little justification for fire and fury. justification ain't enough. gonna help destroy faith in institutions 'cause that is what trump has been doing for four years? vindictive and immature is predictable but is no way to run government. is very democratic, and am not referencing the party. the tyranny o' the masses is what our system is s'posed to prevent, but we are throwing it all away, bit by bit, and norm after norm. disagreeing with gd: am not thinking democrats woulda' done reverse in 2016. they would today. too much has changed in four years. most of it bad. HA! Good Fun! ps @Achilles show by president for budget deficits as you are doing is misleading. is republicans who forced through balanced budget. give clinton credit is dubious. am not suggesting you be convinced by a single cato institute article o' all things, but even so, am thinking is gross unfair to describe as you do. obama deficits were as much 'bout obamacare, his misguided stimulus efforts AND bailouts o' banks and automakers 'stead o' individual citizens than were 'bout the recession, a recession which were as much the fault o' clinton's bank deregulation as any other dozen reasons. because o' the recession, obama woulda' had deficits no matter what. fair point. he just did everything wrong to fix and we would be paying for those mistakes already but for the fact trump is compounding by expanding the debt 'stead o' trying to control... at least pre covid. oh, and democrat Presidents routine cut nasa budget. ... the nasa bit ain't really relevant to the deficit issue, but am thinking clinton and obama both deserve more scorn and ridicule for cutting nasa dollars.
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