Stretch goal discussion!

[anameforobsidian]

Some more interesting details from J. Sawyer

http://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/156538820176/any-chance-in-poe2-grimores-could-be-made-a-little

 

Sawyer - Yes.  Dave Williams has designed a new trinket slot for class-specific goodies like this.  Grimoires are wizard trinkets, but other classes have different trinkets of their own.  We gave trinkets their own slot so a fighter wouldn’t have to sacrifice their gloves slot (for example) to use a fighter-specific item.

 

Interesting.  Losing a fighter trinket to get a wizard's grimoire might be the wrong decision then.

[Sedrefilos]

Brief details about multiclassing. Also extended update about it in coming week
http://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/156540101641/i-know-that-you-tried-to-avoid-trap-builds-in-poe

[MaxQuest]

In the end, our math is balanced such that, e.g., a fighter 6/druid 6 (displayed collectively as a 12th level warden, btw) has about 75%-85% of the fighter power and druid power as a 12th level fighter or a 12th level druid.

Interesting... what does 75-85% of power mean...

Is that hypothetical lvl 12 watcher like a level 9 fighter + level 9 druid combined? Or does he have the same spells as a lvl 12 druid, but their aoe/damage is decreased via multiplying by 0.75-0.85? (and same for fighter's abilities)?

 

And of course how does multi-classing deal with class-specific starting stuff, i.e.: animal companion, faith and conviction, soul whip,.. and especially carnage and chanting.

Edited January 29, 2017 by MaxQuest

[morhilane]

I so don't see a grimoire as a trinket, but if that means grimoire grant stats and not just spells it would give me a good reasons to fill Aloth's inventory slots with them outside of filling his inventory slots with just because I'm an hoarder and never bothered to sell them.

[Gromnir]

 

In the end, our math is balanced such that, e.g., a fighter 6/druid 6 (displayed collectively as a 12th level warden, btw) has about 75%-85% of the fighter power and druid power as a 12th level fighter or a 12th level druid.

Interesting... what does 75-85% of power mean...

 

 

no idea what 75-85% actual means, particular for a spell caster.  am gonna be patient and wait for details.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Ganrich]

Custom AI scripts for companions is the new stretch goal for $2 million! Also, Spanish Localization. Dragon Age: Origin scripting! That is the best feature they could pull from DAO, imho.

[evilcat]

<cheers in Spanish>

AI sceipting is feature which simply useful and good to have it.

[theBalthazar]

Player AI scripting for companions added. (2m)

 

For me it is a no-goal, certainly already planned.

 

It is the same system than NWN 2 ? So, control all possibilities of automatic actions ? (puppet mode or AI script in short ?)

 

Good thing for the Spanish.

Edited January 29, 2017 by theBalthazar

[Lord_Mord]

 

Just imagine the game flops

 

That's not going to happen!

[Archaven]

Player AI scripting for companions added. (2m)

 

For me it is a no-goal, certainly already planned.

 

It is the same system than NWN 2 ? So, control all possibilities of automatic actions ? (puppet mode or AI script in short ?)

 

Good thing for the Spanish.

 

That kinda suxs.. i was hoping they have more interesting goals.

[MaxQuest]

If that scripting is made in DA:O style (if A than do X; if B than do Y), I am happy.

Mod for reference.

Edited January 29, 2017 by MaxQuest

[TheisEjsing]

The visual representation of the 2m dollar goal. Not sure if the game won't have AI if that isn't reached, I hope not. But nice to see spanish! Arriba, arriba, Andale, Andale! ^_^

 

Edited January 29, 2017 by TheisEjsing

[mothra]

AI scripting, YES !!!

Since it is a stretchgoal I hope for some really deep customization, not some priority list where you just insert the spells/abilities you picked at level up

[Eurhetemec]

If that scripting is made in DA:O style (if A than do X; if B than do Y), I am happy.

Mod for reference.

 

Hopefully with a vastly less awful and clumsy interface than DA:O, and more intelligible options. DA:O was strong in terms of providing scripting, but terrible in terms of interfacing with that scripting, or explaining what stuff actually did.

 

DA2 PC did a much better job with a scripting system that made absolute sense and was easy to use, but was slightly more limited than the DA:O one (though IIRC it had some options DA:O didn't have, too).

 

Let's just hope they don't go to Dungeon Siege levels of scripting, where the game can effectively play itself with you merely clicking where to go!

Edited January 29, 2017 by Eurhetemec

[draego]

I see some not like the stretch goals because they haven't been super crazy. I think they have bee great precisely because they seem reasonable. This is not "Stretch goals of Eternity" it Pillars ... Make the game great that is what matters. 

[theBalthazar]

Ok, it is advanced script ! I understand better. Cool.

 

But only useful for thashmob, no ?

[Doppelschwert]

As far as I remember, the AI system from DA:O is mostly a copy from what Final Fantasy 12 did 3 years earlier already.

The interface in FF12 was pretty clear, so I hope they will do something similiar.

 

I'm honestly impressed with this stretch goal - in my eyes, the addition of this feature to the first game would have been the best possible improvement the game could have received.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Doppelschwert

[Chairchucker]

Ok, it is advanced script ! I understand better. Cool.

 

But only useful for thashmob, no ?

I dare say they will still have some uses.

 

FOR EXAMPLE

 

Back in the day, my brother designed a bunch of scripts for BG2. They were useful even outside of combat, because there was things like 'if wizard does not have stoneskin activated, cast it'.

 

So bringing it back to Pillars; is there a spell you always want one of your casters to cast, first thing at the start of combat? Whack it into AI.

[Eurhetemec]

As far as I remember, the AI system from DA:O is mostly a copy from what Final Fantasy 12 did 3 years earlier already.

The interface in FF12 was pretty clear, so I hope they will do something similiar.

 

I'm honestly impressed with this stretch goal - in my eyes, the addition of this feature to the first game would have been the best possible improvement the game could have received.

 

Final Fantasy 12 was by no means the first game to do this - Baldur's Gate 2 did, for example - you just did the scripting out of game, and I know it wasn't the first.

 

The gambit system in FF12 was pretty great though. Pity FF13's character programming system wasn't as good.

 

I very much agree that it's a great feature.

 

But I would be leery of it doing too much - FF12 was designed around the gambit system so the characters basically playing themselves was "gameplay as intended", but some BG2 scripting went too far, as did mod'd DA:O scripting.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Eurhetemec

[Doppelschwert]

 

 

In the end, our math is balanced such that, e.g., a fighter 6/druid 6 (displayed collectively as a 12th level warden, btw) has about 75%-85% of the fighter power and druid power as a 12th level fighter or a 12th level druid.

Interesting... what does 75-85% of power mean...

 

no idea what 75-85% actual means, particular for a spell caster.  am gonna be patient and wait for details.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

My guess would be that they let most abilities scale with class level, in order to evade the powergaming issues that arose in DnD 3.X with abilities scaling only with attributes (for example, the charisma bonus to saves of paladins at lvl 2, which is a common dip in powerbuilds).

Then it would make sense to introduce a scaling parameter in order to convert class levels from a different class into this progression (think raising the effective class level/ caster level in DnD 3.X).

 

I imagine something like a parameter z between 0 and 1 that does the following:

If you have a levels in class A and b levels in class B, then a+zb is your effective class level for determining the strength of abilities from class A, and az+b is the same for class B.

 

Choosing z=0 gets you the situation in DnD 3.X: If you take 6 lvls wizard and 6 lvls cleric, your caster level in both will be 6+0*6=6.

z=0.5 yields a caster level of  6+0.5*6=9, so about 75% progression of the single classes at lvl 12.

Setting z close to 1 yields the situation of DnD2, where due to exponential exp tables, you would only lack one level behind in both classes during multiclassing.

 

This makes sure there is a trade-off in power in abilities, besides the trade off in available abilities, which probably works like you would expect it to.

[Doppelschwert]

 

As far as I remember, the AI system from DA:O is mostly a copy from what Final Fantasy 12 did 3 years earlier already.

The interface in FF12 was pretty clear, so I hope they will do something similiar.

 

I'm honestly impressed with this stretch goal - in my eyes, the addition of this feature to the first game would have been the best possible improvement the game could have received.

 

Final Fantasy 12 was by no means the first game to do this - Baldur's Gate 2 did, for example - you just did the scripting out of game, and I know it wasn't the first.

 

The gambit system in FF12 was pretty great though. Pity FF13's character programming system wasn't as good.

 

I very much agree that it's a great feature.

 

But I would be leery of it doing too much - FF12 was designed around the gambit system so the characters basically playing themselves was "gameplay as intended", but some BG2 scripting went too far, as did mod'd DA:O scripting.

 

 

While I agree that it was possible prior to FF12 to edit scripts for games or even make custom ones, I'm not aware of any games besides FF12 and DA:O that let you do this explicitly in the game itself, which is what I wanted refer to. I'd be interested if you know other titles that allowed for this.

[LordCrash]

That new stretch goal is not made for me because I usually want to control all my party members with my very own hands.

 

I hope for better stuff the next time...

[Eurhetemec]

 

 

As far as I remember, the AI system from DA:O is mostly a copy from what Final Fantasy 12 did 3 years earlier already.

The interface in FF12 was pretty clear, so I hope they will do something similiar.

 

I'm honestly impressed with this stretch goal - in my eyes, the addition of this feature to the first game would have been the best possible improvement the game could have received.

 

Final Fantasy 12 was by no means the first game to do this - Baldur's Gate 2 did, for example - you just did the scripting out of game, and I know it wasn't the first.

 

The gambit system in FF12 was pretty great though. Pity FF13's character programming system wasn't as good.

 

I very much agree that it's a great feature.

 

But I would be leery of it doing too much - FF12 was designed around the gambit system so the characters basically playing themselves was "gameplay as intended", but some BG2 scripting went too far, as did mod'd DA:O scripting.

 

 

While I agree that it was possible prior to FF12 to edit scripts for games or even make custom ones, I'm not aware of any games besides FF12 and DA:O that let you do this explicitly in the game itself, which is what I wanted refer to. I'd be interested if you know other titles that allowed for this.

 

 

It's a difficult thing to research, it turns out! I haven't yet found any one which had an in-engine tactic construction tool like that. They're all either out of game, or more limited. I still feel like I'd see it before FF12, though, because it was really unsurprising. Maybe it was just because of all the simple out-of-game scripting I'd seen.

[algroth]

 

 

Xoti the priest/monk can join your party, and Polish

 

It's nice to know we'll have a companion to take care of our boots. Now, what menial tasks should the rest of our party be assigned with?

[Leferd]

 

Xoti the priest/monk can join your party, and Polish

 

It's nice to know we'll have a companion to take care of our boots. Now, what menial tasks should the rest of our party be assigned with?

 

 

Could always use someone to scrounge around and pick all the various shrubs, berries, and weeds. I mean, if I'm gonna have two farmers around...may as well take advantage of their skills.