Starting back at level 1?

[Enoch]

Thought:  Without a known external system to pin character advancement to, shouldn't "Level 1" = "The level at which you start the game"?

[Gromnir]

Well, they're re-jiggering the game mechanics, too.  It's rarely a good idea to ask the player to pick a whole lot of abilities at once, right at the start of the game.  They'll want the game to be accessible to new-to-the-franchise players, and, even for returning players, there's probably going to be a healthy amount of new options to consider. 

 

My suspicion is that they'll start us at something that feels like level 3 or 4.  Systems like this tend to be most fun in the 3-10 level range, anyway.

in our opinion, 3, 3.5 and 5 d&d is typical best 'tween 4-12.  is a two-fold problem o' powhaz and gear.  at low levels, one rare has many abilities.  this means that 2nd level Burt the Amazing is gonna have few options available to him to do anything other than standard attacks.  watch Burt hack/pew away with a sword/rod for five minutes is kinda dull.  only excitement comes when a couple foes manage to score a couple crit hits in a row, leaving one or more o' your party at death's door.  the true master o' poe's Hel is the God o' rng, particular at low level.

 

high level is opposite problem.  developer has to make kewl gear and powhaz available so the player will wanna keep leveling. unfortunate, there is invariably a point at which too much is bad.  even if every single bit o' gear and every talent is balanced, there is no way for the developer o' the game to prevent natural/unnatural synergy imbalances.  and let's be honest, the developers never manage to keep powers, talents, abilities and spells balanced.  there is gonna be barbarian HoF and paladin immolation and cipher amplified wave.  the more character customizations options the developers add, the harder it becomes to balance the game.

 

gear also piles up in a game such as poe.  1007 is one o' the great incentives for doing all those quests, but the 1007 invariably leads to a player becoming more powerful, and the game itself can rare keep pace. makes it worse in a game where there is considerable content beyond the critical path as gearing is gonna be a constant balancing nightmare.  those side quests need have proper rewards o' gear and xp and gold, all o' which is gonna make a character more powerful than the critical path player. 

 

and with poe 2 multiclassing, am suspecting we will reach power bloat even quicker.  

 

can reduce the speed with which power and gear is granted, but players will be displeased.

 

am not seeing an easy solution.  poe current does follow a similar power curve as does d&d games, although it has a bit sharper rate o' increase at low levels.  is tough to gauge higher levels as we don't yet have multi-class and/prestige class, and there is no vast catalog o' poe splat books neither. 

 

return to level 1 would be, in our opinion, best, but am thinking you could appease most by starting players at level 4.  considering just how quick we got to level 4 in poe, is not as if we would actual be getting much o' a boost, but it might be 'nuff to satisfy the mob. 

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited January 26, 2017 by Gromnir

[Aramintai]

Devs confirmed in the comments on Fig that there will be save importing with an option to tweak story choices. I'm thinking they'll allow us to respec levels as well if we start with the same level we ended PoE1.

[Yonjuro]

 

 

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Still, I wonder how they are going to pull it off. Starting at a mid-high level (say 10ish) would be a bit weird considering what was accomplished in POE1 at the same level... Can it be that people in the Dyrwood are just weaker than their counterparts in Deadfire?

 

 

 That's true. I guess you find some difficult enemies in Deadfire. 

 

 Then again, you are chasing a 200m tall god made out of adra.

 

 So, yeah, I guess you'd better be in good shape before you catch him. And, he probably has minions. Gods always have minions. 

[Madscientist]

Just a few thoughts:

 

- Newly created chars in PoE2 might be more powerful that those imported from PoE1 (assuming you keep your level.) The reason is that PoE2 has multiclassing but PoE1 not and in NWN2 most powerful builds had several classes. Of course, this might be compensated if you keep your epic equipment you had at the end of PoE1.

- In PoE1 you will usually hit max level long before the end of the game. That means your "new" char in PoE2 might be lv 12, 14 or 16, depending on what expansions you have. 4 levels are a big difference in power.

- I guess we start at lv1 or another fixed level that does not depend on your level at the end of PoE1. For example, Gothic 2 and 3 were direct sequels of the first game and you meet chars from the first game again, but you start at lv1.

[gibonez]

Really hoping it starts from level 1. This would allow them to completely revamp and refine the classes from POE1 and not be stuck with the set up of the first game.

[Ganrich]

Really hoping it starts from level 1. This would allow them to completely revamp and refine the classes from POE1 and not be stuck with the set up of the first game.

Agreed, for the most part. Some classes need a bit of a revamp imho. Chanters for instance. They are powerful, but their mechanics are still more beneficial on PotD than the lower difficulties. Also, Dragons Thrashed needs to be looked at. It's so good that there isn't much else worth looking at in that level bracket.

[thelee]

return to level 1 would be, in our opinion, best, but am thinking you could appease most by starting players at level 4.  considering just how quick we got to level 4 in poe, is not as if we would actual be getting much o' a boost, but it might be 'nuff to satisfy the mob. 

 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

Was just thinking about this, and how quickly you get to even level 3; I think I can get there in 20-30 minutes without trying, and most of that is just running around [to springberry, sparfel, the ruins, valewood, inn, rest, tree, solve the grain issue/save the chef*; and then level 4 is just a couple quests from gilded vale. It's actually kind of a neat trick about how they avoid the power-curve problem of most RPG systems where the first few levels just suck (I remember playing BG1 as a relative newbie and the experience of prolonged level 1-2 party combat being extremely painful). Instead, in PoE it's basically just a slightly extended "tutorial mode" before you have a decent number of abilities.

 

Similar to a suggestion I made upthread, they could probably keep/start with the 1-16 level of range of WM2 (and then add a couple levels on top, either in vanilla PoE2 or in DLC) and just give you larger amounts of experience early on so that you scream through the low experience thresholds of levels 1-6/8. This would be a good "recovering from being almost killed" act and would start people off in the middle of the level curve.

 

* when I think about it, i seem to remember that i used to be able to get to level 3 without having to do any gilded vale quests (i remember Eder automatically joining with Defender). did they scale down experience rewards?

[GhostofAnakin]

Maybe the character will have amnesia.  Obsidian's never used that plot device before. 

[ShadySands]

Glad to hear we'll be able to change story flags* because I doubt I can do another run to get things to the perfect state I'd want them to be in. As for starting fresh, I'd probably also prefer starting back at level 1 I guess but either way is fine

 

I mean

 

 

* I hope we can change everything that would be imported and not just the big decisions

[rheingold]

Got to be high level, like Motb, makes no sense otherwise. If they where going to do a low level game then it should be with a new character. Once they decided on the watcher it really has to be high level, which they can do fairly easily, they just have to rework the current system for balance. Actually shouldn't be to difficult considering in the first game they had to create a new system from scratch. I'm more worried about the multi classing option to be honest. That seems to me to be a complete overhaul. I'm not against multi classing but I like the classes as is and I'd prefer any changes to be small, not reinventing the wheel.

[rheingold]

Maybe the character will have amnesia.  Obsidian's never used that plot device before. 

Huh, you are right: technically it was Black Isle

[thelee]

 

Maybe the character will have amnesia.  Obsidian's never used that plot device before. 

Huh, you are right: technically it was Black Isle

 

 

Hey, don't forget about Fallout: New Vegas.

[Mygaffer]

The crowdfunding video says that the Eothas golem thingy will destroy the keep and leave you on the brink of death.

 

My guess would be that they're using that as a reason to push you back to level 1. And the returning characters are maybe currently visiting you, so it happens to them as well.

 

Personally, I don't have any issues with starting back small. But I am a bit sad about probably losing the keep.

My level 16 characters are super powerful, with tons of strong abilities. To take that as a baseline and still allow meaningful progression would be quite the design feat.

 

I'm totally fine with starting at level 1 again. I love getting new levels, experimenting with new builds, and measuring my progress.

 

EDIT: A word

Edited January 31, 2017 by Mygaffer

[ruzen]

I may be reaching very high but For some reason, I am expecting a combination of both. 

In the trailer, Josh says the main guy almost dies but somehow links soul to a quest. So protagonist could start from level 1, but the returning chars(remaining higher leveled) won't be available all the time. Returning companions could come and go for specific quests or timeline. Filling the "6th spot" for some quests, which could go with the rumor: that PoE2 could be 5 man party size game. 

Edited January 27, 2017 by ruzen

[Skie Nightfall]

This is the reason why I would prefer a brand new story in the world, rather than a continuation with the same character. That's just me though

[anameforobsidian]

They say the characters are "fighting for their souls."  That would give a good reason for all of them to come with you and be deleveled.  It'd be interesting if they all started turning into watchers.

[Aotrs Commander]

I feel that, while I would like a ToB-style bonkers-high level campaign, the set-up they've given us is a fair excuse for shunting us down to a more managble level. If it t'were me (and I wasn't going with that former option...!) I'd be inclined to plsit the difference a bit and drop down to some mid-low level rather than level 1 - perhaps, as above, the vanilla cap or somewhere around the single digits game.

 

But I'm not gonna complain if they keep us at high-level...!

[Adul]

I have to be honest, I would find it disappointing for Deadfire to use the RPG sequel trope of "traumatic event happened, you're back at level 1", which is just an unfortunate cop-out in my opinion. Mass Effect did this, Gothic did this, and I think it's a mistake that's best avoided.

 

What I would hope for instead is the same dedication to long-term character progression that the BG saga managed to achieve, which is one of my favorite things about that series. BG2 managed to make high-level combat not only approachable to new players, but even more satisfying than the original game's combat was. It's not easy to do this, but if it's done right, I think it's worth the effort.

 

There's just something magical about having your level 40 looking back at their journey of hundreds of gameplay hours, starting as a lowly novice and becoming a godlike master of battle, or magic, or whatever else. It would be great to have another CRPG series where this sort of arc is attainable.

[Karkarov]

Well I wouldn't be shocked if we were kicked back to level 1.  Remember, Eora is about the power of souls.  I watched that video and it looked like Eothas was eating up some souls to power his own revival. 

So it isn't crazy to assume you and your compatriots took some serious damage to your own souls in the process.  A damaged soul would very much be a weaker soul, and could explain a lower leveled character.

[jones092201]

With the exception of mass effect ii, what game deleveled existing characters? People keep pointing this out, but I can't remember another example of this. Sure they exist of course.

 

I do agree that the first game over leveled us too quickly. I think you do have to account for the fact that , back in 2015 when the game was released, isometric rpgs had gone the way of the dodo birds and Gerry curls, so obsidian needed to show new fans what high level content looked like.

 

That being said- hopefully the genre will still be active when the watcher storyline wraps up, and the next set of Eora games can spend more time in the lower level content, dealing with more mundane threats, so we don't have to have the tools to battle gods and reveal earth-shattering revelations at the end of game one

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Have they said they're going to start at level 1 anywhere? I doubt it's going to happen, my guess is new chars will start at whatever the level cap in Vanilla PoE was or a few levels lower with imported characters getting their levels from PoE+Expansions and a respec to accommodate changes.

[Enoch]

Was just thinking about this, and how quickly you get to even level 3; I think I can get there in 20-30 minutes without trying, and most of that is just running around [to springberry, sparfel, the ruins, valewood, inn, rest, tree, solve the grain issue/save the chef*; and then level 4 is just a couple quests from gilded vale. It's actually kind of a neat trick about how they avoid the power-curve problem of most RPG systems where the first few levels just suck (I remember playing BG1 as a relative newbie and the experience of prolonged level 1-2 party combat being extremely painful). Instead, in PoE it's basically just a slightly extended "tutorial mode" before you have a decent number of abilities.

 

This wasn't new with PoE.  NWN2 had the main character to level 3 before you left the starter village.  ("Lower BoringSwamp" or something?)  I think I leveled from 1->2 bobbing for apples at the fair. 

Edited January 27, 2017 by Enoch

[morhilane]

Well I wouldn't be shocked if we were kicked back to level 1.  Remember, Eora is about the power of souls.  I watched that video and it looked like Eothas was eating up some souls to power his own revival. 

 

So it isn't crazy to assume you and your compatriots took some serious damage to your own souls in the process.  A damaged soul would very much be a weaker soul, and could explain a lower leveled character.

 

It's called getting level drained.

[Tigranes]

I'd rather have a hackneyed explanation for going back to level 1, than be forced into an inferior game experience for the next 50 hours fighting super saiyan bandits and armies of dragons because they couldn't come up with a good reason.