What do you wish not to see in PE

[Cthulhu0316]

I'd just like for the game to take itself seriously, with no Monty Python references for example.

 

I just simply wont buy a game from Obsidian that DOESN't have a Mony Python reference. Just kidding on that but really? No, MP references? Who didn't hug you enough, my man?. Please, please, please...as serious as I like the tone of games to be, mature theme or otherwise, do not leave out humor. It is, in fact, part of any world, fantasy or otherwise. I like easter eggs, I like nods to other games. I do agree however, that it doesnt need to be prevalent and/or ridiculous. What I would NOT like to see:....enemies that look the same just rendered a differet color, repeating themes in quests (collect 20 powders of "blank", kill 10 ice trolls, destroy 7 magical barriers).

[Audiocide]

Over-emphasized realism, adherence to DnD resulting in impaired game play.

 

Yes DnD is the father of these games, but some of the ideas and ensuring everything "makes sense" down to minute detail level doesnt always work well for cRPG's. A lot of these ideas tend to really be pushed by the hardcore RPG crowd. I understand where they are coming from, but there is a reason that the audience for cRPGS is much greater and diverse than the audience for PnP DnD.

 

I think the whole point - the very point that many people, myself included, have paid good money for is that this game is being made for the exact audience you mentioned. The hardcore CRPG crowd.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Audiocide

[Continuity]

Combat mechanics inspired by MMO's. Things like threat and cool downs.. no thanks.

[Shardbearer]

I think the whole point - the very point that many people, myself included, have paid good money for is that this game is being made for the exact audience you mentioned. The hardcore CRPG crowd.

 

My two points would be that different opinions exist as to what's "hardcore", and that I was under the impression the intended audience was the people that were fans of classic computer RPGs, with most of the games referenced I wouldn't even describe as hardcore.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Shardbearer

[ilhdr]

Quests, paths or factions that excludes onother one.

[GhostofAnakin]

An incredibly bad ending that would ruin the overall journey for me, leaving a negative last impression that would make me not want to replay the game again.

 

So Obsidian, even if the ending doesn't end up being great, at least make sure it doesn't suck the desire out of me to play through ever again (I'm looking at you, Mass Effect 3).

[Jasede]

Quests, paths or factions that excludes onother one.

I hope we won't see a lack of quests, paths and factions that exclude other ones.

Else you end up with that ridiculous situation where you are the Master Thief, the Archwizard, the leader of the Ninja Assassins and the Ultimate Leader of the Fighter's Guild- all at once.

 

I despise the modern RPG player.

[Luckmann]

An incredibly bad ending that would ruin the overall journey for me, leaving a negative last impression that would make me not want to replay the game again.

 

So Obsidian, even if the ending doesn't end up being great, at least make sure it doesn't suck the desire out of me to play through ever again (I'm looking at you, Mass Effect 3).

Mask of the Betrayer, Knights of the Old Republic 2.. although to be fair, those endings weren't so much bad as they were unfinished.

[pseudonymous]

]Mask of the Betrayer, Knights of the Old Republic 2.. although to be fair, those endings weren't so much bad as they were unfinished.

 

Am I the only person on this planet that likes the ambiguous ending of KOTOR2?

 

On topic: No MMO style fetch 20 maguffins to accomplish x quests.

Edited September 28, 2012 by pseudonymous

[Luckmann]

]Mask of the Betrayer, Knights of the Old Republic 2.. although to be fair, those endings weren't so much bad as they were unfinished.

 

Am I the only person on this planet that likes the ambiguous ending of KOTOR2?

 

On topic: No MMO style fetch 20 maguffins to accomplish x quests.

Ambigious ending? The entire latter 1/5th of the game is a catastrophe of unfinished areas and loose ends. The very final ending, the confrontation with Kreia and the disappearance of the Exile was fine. But the "finale" of the game is just.. so.. gah. Edited September 28, 2012 by Luckmann

[-TK-]

I don't want to see any Japanese or eastern inspired weapons or armour.

[Keyrock]

Level scaling and escort quests are at the top of my "STAY AWAY!" list.

 

If I'm stupid enough to wander into a dangerous area way beyond my ability with a sign stating "WARNING: Big Dangerous Trolls Ahead" when I'm low level I expect to get ripped apart by hulking trolls rather than encounter level 2 trolls. Punish me for overstepping my bounds.

 

As far as escort quests go, I don't think I need to explain this one. I'm pretty sure we all hate escort quests.

[GammaHamster]

What's wrong with cinematic cutscenes? Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale had them.

 

They were talking about in-engine cutscenes that take away control from the player.

Edited September 28, 2012 by GammaHamster

[Luckmann]

What's wrong with cinematic cutscenes? Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale had them.

 

They were talking about in-engine cutscenes that take away control from the player.

Oh, no, at least I wasn't.

[ToveriJuri]

]Mask of the Betrayer, Knights of the Old Republic 2.. although to be fair, those endings weren't so much bad as they were unfinished.

 

Am I the only person on this planet that likes the ambiguous ending of KOTOR2?

 

On topic: No MMO style fetch 20 maguffins to accomplish x quests.

 

No you are not. I liked KOTOR2 more in every way, especially the story. First kotor storyline was bit too unoriginal. Not saying it was bad, but it wasn that interesting.

 

And on topic. One thing that I don't really like anymore is the morality meter. in KOTOR games the whole star wars universe made it work, but outside of that and the DnD universe it kinda hinders the feel of "your own story". I feel like the morality meter forces you to play a role that's kinda getting tiring. It's much easier to make reactive choices when you are not constantly being judged by the game's "karma" meter.

[Stun]

Cool thread. The bulk of my gripes have already been mentioned over and over here, so I won't be overly redundant by posting a list. But there is one thing I don't want to see in PE, which hasn't been mentioned yet (or at least I haven't seen it)

 

Big Numbers. Armor Ratings in the 1000s, Attack scores in the 1000s, and of course Damage scales that start at double digits and go all the way up to the 1000s.

 

 

Here's an example. In DA:O, an armor rating of 42 was....Great. it represented the pinnacle. Neither you nor the enemies could get much higher than this. Fast forward to DA2... where you start the game with an armor rating somewhere around 300. And by midgame if your armor rating wasn't in the thousands, you really weren't armored properly. By end game it wasn't at all unusual to have an armor rating of 2,956. Ridiculous. Whats the point of such a high number system, when the exact same Armor effect could be achieved by using smaller numbers?

 

Actually, there's an answer to that. True story: This was brought up on a thread at BSN and got a developer response (Mike Laidlaw I believe) He flat out said: "We use big numbers because gamers like big numbers. Big numbers evoke emotional satisfaction."

 

I say BS to that. What he means is KIDS like seeing big numbers. Kids can relate to big numbers because 10,000 looks more 'awesome' at first glance than 50. Never mind the system itself. Nevermind the fact that 50 can actually represent something more powerful than 10,000.

Edited September 28, 2012 by Stun

[AlphaShard]

Anything from Fable like those inane gestures.

[Amentep]

Cool thread. My the bulk of my gripes have already been mentioned over and over here, so I won't be overly redundant by posting a list. But there is one thing I don't want to see in PE, which hasn't been mentioned yet (or at least I haven't seen it)

 

Big Numbers. Armor Ratings in the 1000s, Attack scores in the 1000s, and of course Damage scales that start at double digits and go all the way up to the 1000s.

 

 

Here's an example. In DA:O, an armor rating of 42 was....Great. it represented the pinnacle. Neither you nor the enemies could get much higher than this. Fast forward to DA2... where you start the game with an armor rating somewhere around 300. And by midgame if your armor rating wasn't in the thousands, you really weren't armored properly. By end game it wasn't at all unusual to have an armor rating of 2,956. Ridiculous. Whats the point of such a high number system, when the exact same Armor effect could be achieved by using smaller numbers?

 

Actually, there's an answer to this. True story: This was brought up on a threat at BSN and got a developer response (Mike Laidlaw I believe) He flat out said: "We use big numbers because gamers like big numbers. Big numbers evoke satisfaction."

 

I say BS to that. What he meen is KIDS like seeing big numbers. Kids can relate to big numbers because 10,000 looks more 'awesome' than 50. Never mind the system itself. Nevermind the fact that 50 can actually represent something more/i] powerful than 10,000.

 

That explanation from whoever at Bioware doesn't make sense - there's really no difference in a 1-50 scale have 29.56 vs a 100 to 5000 scale have 2,956. I mean the numbers are abstractions anyhow, but the idea that "big numbers" is better is ridiculous, just like the idea of making normal items "white test" and rare items Green and unique items purple means anything but the arbitrary designations the creators gave them. I hope that kids today don't look at an arbitrary 10,000 and go "Kewl!".

Edited September 28, 2012 by Amentep

[Caerdon]

That explanation from whoever at Bioware doesn't make sense - there's really no difference in a 1-50 scale have 29.56 vs a 100 to 5000 scale have 2,956. I mean the numbers are abstractions anyhow, but the idea that "big numbers" is better is ridiculous, just like the idea of making normal items "white test" and rare items Green and unique items purple means anything but the arbitrary designations the creators gave them. I hope that kids today don't look at an arbitrary 10,000 and go "Kewl!".

 

It doesn't make sense... but still you see this everywhere. "What's the level cap in this game? 80? That's awesome!!!" "Only 30 XP for an Ogre? Lame!"

[Naril]

I'd just like for the game to take itself seriously, with no Monty Python references for example.

 

my god sir...what are you suggesting? the very thought of a game without at 'least' ONE monty python reference hidden somewhere turns my very blood to ice.

 

Serious is good. Great even: I wouldn't have the game any other way, but rare hidden little easter eggs and subtle (or not so subtle) references to humorous things can add a lot.

[Gromnir]

1) crap ending

 

interplay/black isle/obsidian has been consistent world-beaters in one category. is not storytelling, game stability or engaging game mechanics. nope. the obsidian guys tends to do lousy endings. really. the only game from these guys in which we had a genuine satisfying conclusion were, oddly enough, iwd. now, perhaps we can blame publishers for the way kotor 2 were concluded, but most o' the rest o' their catalog is equally anti-climactic. so... avoid craptacular endings. number 1. biggie.

 

2) dove/visas mar

 

is some obsinatie npcs that is just written gawd offal. is as if the writers come up with the quirky concept, and then quit. even worse, they tries to add depth by adding pseudo-philosophizing dialogue. for eternity, make characters that DO compelling rather than say compelling... 'cause the stuff obsinaties sometimes has their characters say is just terrible. don't need characters that is actually a highly sophisticated clockwork, or is some kinda colony o' slime molds that has take human form... not if they is gonna spout fortune cookie dialogue.

 

3) +3 greatswords that do electrical damage & stun

 

iwd had this nifty random weapon drop, and it were freaking ridiculously unbalanced. were hardly the only weapon that were unbalanced in that game. am s'posing that as guys who likes to play games, the developers wanna make kewl weapons as much as we want to find kewl weapons. the thing is, a kewl weapon can seriously mess up game balance. fo:nv had a couple such weapons, so is not as if the obsinaties has left this obstacle in their rear-view mirror. as nifty as ultimate weapons may seem to be, please make'em a bit less nifty in eternity. obvious best weapons that everybody wants, should be avoided.

 

4) end boss with nine lives

 

is not necessarily an obsidian thing (not solely) but am not sure when it became popular for developers to make bosses with multiple lives. gotta kill material form, then energy form, then spiritual form... or some such nonsense. no respawning from stasis cocoons, or using corpses to reanimate self or anything remotely similar.

 

5) eating

 

is an exercise in the tedious. make us carry food and occasionally eat is just a waste o' game time. same with drinking. am pretty sure such stuff were optional in fo:nv. were considered hard-mode or ironman or somesuch. *snort* we had quick travel, so what were the point? even so, at least in fo:nv it were an optional thing, so if you includes such silliness in eternity, make it optional.

 

...

 

gonna stop at 5 for now... much more and we might seem like we is grumpy.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Undecaf]

- Player romances

- Minigames

- Essential NPC's

- Anything of the common AAA actionRPG fare (you name it)

 

To name a few....

Edited September 28, 2012 by Undecaf

[Caerdon]

1) crap ending

 

interplay/black isle/obsidian has been consistent world-beaters in one category. is not storytelling, game stability or engaging game mechanics. nope. the obsidian guys tends to do lousy endings. really. the only game from these guys in which we had a genuine satisfying conclusion were, oddly enough, iwd. now, perhaps we can blame publishers for the way kotor 2 were concluded, but most o' the rest o' their catalog is equally anti-climactic. so... avoid craptacular endings. number 1. biggie.

 

To each his own... I thought IWD's ending was completely unremarkable and uninteresting. PS:T on the other hand had some of the most satisfying endings I've ever seen in a video game.

[Azure79]

I pretty much don't want to see

 

-level scaling

 

-infinitely increasing stats that warp my perception of what is strong/agile/wise/intelligent/hardy etc.

 

-infinitely increasing AC, to hit etc., that usually follows from above

 

-I'll second Gromnir about crappy endings. I would like something meaningful at the end of the journey. It doesn't have to be long or drawn out. Something like the ending to PS:T with your companions would be great. I admit, I got kinda teary.

[Merin]

1) crap ending

 

interplay/black isle/obsidian has been consistent world-beaters in one category. is not storytelling, game stability or engaging game mechanics. nope. the obsidian guys tends to do lousy endings. really. the only game from these guys in which we had a genuine satisfying conclusion were, oddly enough, iwd. now, perhaps we can blame publishers for the way kotor 2 were concluded, but most o' the rest o' their catalog is equally anti-climactic. so... avoid craptacular endings. number 1. biggie.

 

To each his own... I thought IWD's ending was completely unremarkable and uninteresting. PS:T on the other hand had some of the most satisfying endings I've ever seen in a video game.

 

...

 

Yeah, to each their own. I know IWD is remembered as a dungeon crawl, but the difference between IWD and BG were really two-fold:

1 - player made party vs. recruited companions (the latter could, arguably, lead to a deeper or more compelling story - I'd vehemently disagree it means a BETTER story)

2 - more linear story and where you go from where vs. much more free-form exploration (arguably, the former leads to a better story)

 

Because of 2, BG was "longer" as you could wander around more.

 

But there's nothing inherently different between the two games that means one should have a better story.

 

 

I, personally, feel IWD is one of the better, if not the best, realized stories (with a beginning, middle, end, clear plot points and protagonist, etc) that Black Isle / Obsidian has done. And, for me, IWD indeed has the best story ending of any of their games (with the acknowledgment that I've never finished, nor gotten far, in PS:T so I can't fairly judge it)

 

I hadn't thought about endings before in regards to IWD but, yeah, I'm on the "better if not best ending to a story B.I./Obs has done" train.

 

EDIT - yes, above, mentioned PS:T - and yes, BG wasn't mentioned and the BG series was BioWare... it's just that BG and IWD are often compared, and I mostly see it as BG was the story heavy series and IWD was the dungeon crawl, and I feel that's a false dichotomy... IWD was a dungeon crawl, mostly, yes, but BG was more open world exploration. Story wasn't the difference. Anywho, yes, when I say "best of B.I./Obs", I know BG wasn't theirs, and I include in the actual list Fallout's, KotOR 2, Alpha Protocol, NWN2 (not finished MotB or SoZ yet, so those COULD be better), ToEE...

Edited September 28, 2012 by Merin