Zoraptor Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 33 minutes ago, ShadySands said: Not sure why these are the types of Trek shows we're getting. This stuff is not art it's just a product meant to sell subscriptions so why not make just one show that appeals more to the Trek fans they already have and appeal to new fans that may want something smarter. I'm heading towards the opinion that modern show writers are (largely) incapable of writing logical plot progressions. Instead of having the plot progress as a balance of circumstance and characterisation it progresses as a Force Majeure that can rewrite previous events- even previous events in the same show- and which can rewrite characters and their motivations as needed. The alternative is probably worse, writers are capable of writing plot well but don't think the audience cares about it, so don't bother. I think there's a decent dollop of truth in that, very high rating shows like GoT or The Walking Dead largely ignored plot logic for entire seasons without seeing much ratings drop or critical backlash; ratings drops or critical backlash did come but there was a significant lag from the start of the problem due to audience inertia. I haven't seen Picard yet, but it's a problem that seems to mostly infest genre shows- the current Doctor Who has it too, so does STD, Walking Dead and GoT had it too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majestic Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Zoraptor said: I haven't seen Picard yet, Don't bother. As of episode two it went full Kurtzman. That was... terrible. In every way. And there's a Section 31 within the Tal Shiar called Zhat Vash, on a mission to stop synthetic life in the galaxy (well someone played Mass Effect and obviously Fears The Reaper. Erm, Reapers. ;)). Except some of them really like to diddle synthetic girls and a LOT of them seem to he happy fondling dead Borg. But I guess dead Borg aren't synthetic enough? Ah, who the hell knows. Or cares. It's a Borg cube, the greates destructive weapon in the galaxy. Except they get routinely stopped by Starfleet ships, thanks to a bunch of villain decay. That sequence on Mars had me cringe every step of the way. This is post "The Measure of a Man" Trek you hack frauds. This Romulan plotline makes the first season of Discovery appear sane by comparison. Edited January 31, 2020 by majestic 1 No mind to think. No will to break. No voice to cry suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 I'll go into Picard expecting it to be offensively dumb so I'll probably enjoy it well enough. In the end my main problem with STD was that I had some vague sort of expectations about plot coherency and being treated like I had more than 2 brain cells and a longer memory than a flatworm. 2 seasons of that and I have been purged of any expectations whatsoever, and I'm more than capable of watching something for the entertainment value inherent in slagging it off. (Picard is on Primevideo here- no NZ Amazon, so it's the only Prime service we have- and the sub cost is the same for 6 months as for one. Wouldn't get it for Picard alone, but I've accumulated a decent amount of Prime shows I do want to watch and will inevitably have time to spare at some point.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 8 hours ago, Gfted1 said: Iirc, the finale to Newhart was the dreaded "it was all just a dream". :puke: It was all a dream...of Bob Newheart's previous sitcom character. It was hilarious, imo. Ymmv. 1 I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 9 hours ago, Amentep said: It was all a dream...of Bob Newheart's previous sitcom character. It was hilarious, imo. Ymmv. started laughing as soon as we recognized the old newhart show set. kept laughing when they closed with old newhart show theme music. worked precisely 'cause it were satire o' dallas and st. elsewhere dream sequence stuff. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) I watched Picard episode 1 last night on Amazon after I saw Zor's post. I have a mixed opinion of it. Some things I liked, some I didn't. The plot was intriguing enough to keep me interested. I wasn't expecting them to go Blade Runner but here we are. Edited February 1, 2020 by Guard Dog "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) Surfing through TV last in the wee hours last night, I realized that the 1st episode of Picard is "free to watch" via Fire TV/Amazon, without needing to push the "try CBSNow 1 week/month/dunno for 'free' " button. So I tried to watch it. It put me to sleep before it was half over ... so I guess I'll have to try again later. I was not liking anything about the episode outside of the fact it's always nice to see Stewart. Mostly, I was just bored by it. Also, no offense to Stewart but the sound people need to realize his vocal chords are aged and put the boom mike closer. Or do a better job of sound mixing in the editing. I kept turning the volume up and up because it's so gravelly/hoarse or whatever I couldn't understand him half the time. Either that or it's me and my age. Also saw HBO has a new series called Avenue 5, starring Hugh Laurie. Sort of a "Lost (Cruise ship) in Space." Two episodes watched (there's four currently available). As a comedy it's very uneven. Has that very dry type of humor where chrs. take themselves seriously while yet being almost slapstick, that's supposed to make you laugh. Large cast. Some of them I liked, some of them you just want to toss out a window. I laughed almost never although I did smile several times and there was one Hugh Laurie line/bit referencing his American accent that did make me guffaw. Anyway, comedies are hard, it could find its footing more later. Hugh is a priceless treasure regardless. Edited February 1, 2020 by LadyCrimson “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raithe Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 After watching two episodes of Picard, I can say there are ups, there are downs. But.. I think the key point I'm taking away from it is that it is very much not an episodic show like we're used to with Trek. Trek has done arcs, but they've always had each episode has a fairly clear beginning and end to a story, and it's connected to an arc. Picard.. is not doing that. Episode 1 is more a setup and get Picard off the couch, episode 2 is more the pilot episode starting a show up. I think it's one where the storyline won't click until you've actually had most of the season shown. I'm settling in to consider it as one incredibly lengthy movie that's just being shown in parts rather than a tv show. "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted February 3, 2020 Author Share Posted February 3, 2020 I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadySands Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 I feel like it's a lot of stuff they should have launched with 1 Free games updated 3/4/21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maedhros Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 Isn't Falcon just a normal, trained guy? Won't him throwing the shield basically just be a guy throwing a...shield? Not the most effective weapon? It seems like it has an engine of its own though, based on the trailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted February 3, 2020 Share Posted February 3, 2020 He's also an expert bird trainer. 2 "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexx Posted February 4, 2020 Share Posted February 4, 2020 (edited) Watched Anne with an E. Season 1 was actually surprisingly good. Really liked it. Then season 2 happened and I noticed it feeling different. Took me until 3/4 of that season till I realized what has happened... the show became super PC. Season 3 is even worse. There is so much weird, awkward, and over the top political correctness in it, it's just weirding me out. All in all the show was still good, but couldn't shake off this constant feeling of unbelievability. Oh yeah, and you have these clear-cut heroes and villains, and "middle ground" characters who are always against X until Anne does something and in the next moment they don't mind X anymore. It became kinda tedious in the end. I'm not surprised the show got canned, tbh. Bit of a shame, but oh well. Edited February 4, 2020 by Lexx "only when you no-life you can exist forever, because what does not live cannot die." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maedhros Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Re-watching Wolf Hall these days. I still think it's one of the most criminally overlooked shows of the last decade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartimaeus Posted February 5, 2020 Share Posted February 5, 2020 Yeah, I thought it was great as well. Don't know if season 2 will ever be coming out at this point. Quote How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart. In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uuuhhii Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) start watching mythic quest raven banquet amazing comedy but really obsess with for honor cutscenes for some reason 5th episode just went in a very different depressing direction Edited February 7, 2020 by uuuhhii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Is that an upcoming Loki series? Dang it, why is there always this *one* show I want to see on a sub-service but I don't want to sub until there's at least three or five shows. Especially when they're very short seasons. Oh well. Watched Eps. 4 and 5 of The Outsider/HBO. It sort of feels like this should have been an eight episode series instead of ten. I'm still liking it overall but the pacing is so stretched out at times. Despite that, so far it keeps my attention enough that I haven't felt like resorting to any ffwd'ing, but with it being half over, I might start doing so, if it doesn't pick up from glacial to at least snail pace. “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadySands Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Picard - I think my wife is pretty much done with the show and TNG Picard is her favorite Trek captain of all time. When she asked me how I felt I had to be honest and went on like a 20 minute rant. We're going to try to still watch it but as something stupid that you turn your brain off and drink to. 1 Free games updated 3/4/21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanisatha Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 5 hours ago, ShadySands said: I think my wife is pretty much done with the show and TNG Picard is her favorite Trek captain of all time. <gasp> And The Sisko is ok with this?! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted February 8, 2020 Author Share Posted February 8, 2020 Personally I think all Trek has suffered, post-Roddenberry, from the creators not really believing in the concepts the original show built. Particularly Vulcans in general but also Starfleet's utopian ideal. Haven't seen Picard or Discovery yet though. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Amentep said: Personally I think all Trek has suffered, post-Roddenberry, from the creators not really believing in the concepts the original show built. Particularly Vulcans in general but also Starfleet's utopian ideal. Haven't seen Picard or Discovery yet though. mentioned previous how am of the opinion the strength o' ds9 were that while it maintained roddenberry values, it were more cynical and less naïve than star trek media more fully realized by gene. have observed how our favorite ds9 were in the pale moonlight. never woulda' gotten the ds9 sisko character from roddenberry, or the ds9 religious themes related to bajorans. moral ambivalence regarding terrorism? not a chance. honestly, am doubtful tng chain of command gets made save for fact roddenberry had died the previous year. closet land were released in 1991 and had a major influence on the star trek folks. chain o' command were last tng episode aired previous to ds9's emissary. am recalling how the guy who played captain jellico (sp?) in the two-parter torture episode (forget his name... from deliverance and beverly hills cop) specific observed how much he enjoyed the conflict his character brought to the enterprise, particular as such conflict were avoided by roddenberry, so he were kinda the first guy to bring such conflict to the star trek crew. agree or disagree, that is how actors felt. am not saying roddenberry dying were good for star trek, 'cause am recognizing how shows following ds9 coulda' benefitted from his vision. nevertheless, am believing ds9 were unique benefiting from being the first star trek where all the good ideas folks involved in the shows and movies had needed to suppress so long as gene's singular vision controlled all, sudden became viable. creative folks with their own vision had freedom to stretch and grow while nevertheless (conscious or unconscious) maintaining the integrity o' star trek fundamentals... whatever those is. HA! Good Fun! ps for folks who have not seen, we cannot recommend closet land (1991) enough. you will not want to see it more than once, but is worth seeing. 1 "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted February 8, 2020 Author Share Posted February 8, 2020 I get where you're coming from with DS9. But I also think while it was good, it opened the door enough away from the core of the original show that people felt emboldened to continue in that direction. So instead of being the show that was a cool exception to the rules, it became the rules. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, kanisatha said: <gasp> And The Sisko is ok with this?! You beat me to it! Hey Shady is right about a lot of things. His choice in Star Trek captains is one of them! Sisko was the most interesting because he wasn't perfect. Edited February 8, 2020 by Guard Dog 2 "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
213374U Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 8 hours ago, Amentep said: Personally I think all Trek has suffered, post-Roddenberry, from the creators not really believing in the concepts the original show built. Particularly Vulcans in general but also Starfleet's utopian ideal. Haven't seen Picard or Discovery yet though. Writers exploring the darker edges of the world Roddenberry imagined is something that happened during Roddenberry's life. I may have mentioned this before, but Roddenberry reportedly hated the plot of Star Trek 6. Honestly I believe Trek is richer for it, because his ideas were a bit overbearing. Plausible only perhaps in a world where individualism has been completely purged, and that makes for a pretty boring setting for, ultimately, character-driven stories. What I'm not so sure is that going full grimdark because that's what (marketing studies suggest?) appeals to modern sensibilities, decades of world-building be damned, makes for a better product. Hell, I'd even be down for a mirror universe show, if they could write it well, because at the end of the day, it would be the mirror universe. But why bother with writing when you can pow and boom and ooh and ahh, and INSTANT SLAM DUNK ELEVENTY BILLION DOLLARS AT THE BOX OFFICE. Mass marketing is a blight. 2 - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blarghagh Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Wait, the Sherlock guys made a Dracula show and people hated it? Let's give that a shot, I'm sure it'll be a fascinating dumpster fire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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