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Politics 2017 part II


Ben No.3

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Do your own search. His views aren't hard to find.  I'd rather not quote and speak on his behalf when you can get his beliefs from his own mouth.HINT: 'Micro aggressions'.

Edited by Volourn

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Do your own search. His views aren't hard to find.  I'd rather not quote and speak on his behalf when you can get his beliefs from his own mouth.HINT: 'Micro aggressions'.

I didnt want to do my own research for a reason, I already dont like Milo and I would have guessed he would be dismissive towards the LGBT community. That would have just confirmed a few things for me and irritated me even more and I am trying to not judge him on SJ values 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Heh, and the VW project was basically a giant Ponzi scheme, since barely a single volk got his wagen out of all their contributions and the factories ended up producing tanks instead of cars.

 

FTR, my copy of the Concise Oxford Dictionary, published 1976, defines fascism as "..system of extreme right wing or authoritarian views". Clearly corrupted by SJWs, 41 years ago.

 

Clearly Google has a Timelord in their employ. Or possibly the Count de Saint-Germain, the original time travelling, immortal alchemist. Hm, now that I think of it, Larry Page does look a bit like the good old count. That's worth investigating.

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"he would be dismissive towards the LGBT community"

 

Oh, youa re one of THOSE.  Last I checked, Milo is gay, so he is already a part of the 'LGBT community'... but, forgot he doesn't have the proper groupthink. L0L Also, to hear him talk, he REALLY likes black men. :D

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Now. Did his policies have an ostensibly different effect to those of Uncle Joe next door? To the average citizen, probably not, as within a decade, both countries were totalitarian hellholes. But that's because both sought to create an all-encompassing state that was inseparable from the national culture, and in that light, any policies they may have adopted or paid lip service to were simply a means to an end, absolute power.

OK, so what are we arguing about, this is exactly the opposite of a Jeffersonian democracy, which is what American right is all about.

As Mussolini put it: "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."

Sounds like socialism to me. Communists are international socialists and fascists are national socialists.

 

 

WOD what is the appeal with Milo from  a Breitbart and member perspective? What do people like about him, is it how he attacks the left or something else?

I don't really follow Milo but I think it's because he's really smart and likes to stick it to the left.

"Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan

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"he would be dismissive towards the LGBT community"

 

Oh, youa re one of THOSE.  Last I checked, Milo is gay, so he is already a part of the 'LGBT community'... but, forgot he doesn't have the proper groupthink. L0L Also, to hear him talk, he REALLY likes black men. :D

"" he REALLY likes black men " :lol: 

 

I could explain what I mean about Milo but I dont think it really matters to you and I am not being condescending just honest?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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OK, so what are we arguing about, this is exactly the opposite of a Jeffersonian democracy, which is what American right is all about.

 

Huh, so, every ideal that isn't espoused by the American "Jeffersonian" democratic right is automatically leftist?

 

Does that make Pinochet a commie too? Cuz... nah. Right wing forms of government can't possibly be authoritarian. That trait is leftist.

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I can't imagine how bad Baldwin Trump must've been if this was the good one...

 

Huh. Well I know humor can be subjective, but I'm a bit surprised that wasn't worth at least a chuckle for you. I mean, they nailed the makeup, CNN is wearing a diaper, she pulls out a super soaker. Honestly I thought it was pretty spot on.   :p

 

 

This is my favourite Trump impersonator.

 

I think one of the big problems when it comes to describing something as right wing, is people have different definitions of right wing. Conservatives see the right wing as championing small government and personal liberty, "Liberals" see nationalism as the only requirement for being right wing. As much as Stephen Molyneux has some questionable arguments, he is right that you need to define terms before entering a debate, as arguing with different definitions I would say is the biggest source of political disagreement.

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OK, so what are we arguing about, this is exactly the opposite of a Jeffersonian democracy, which is what American right is all about.

 

Huh, so, every ideal that isn't espoused by the American "Jeffersonian" democratic right is automatically leftist?

 

Does that make Pinochet a commie too? Cuz... nah. Right wing forms of government can't possibly be authoritarian. That trait is leftist.

 

Pinochet wasn't a socialist, quite the opposite.

"Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan

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Sounds like socialism to me. Communists are international socialists and fascists are national socialists.

 

Sure does, except not at all. Socialism is about "social" (collective and democratic) ownership of the means of production. That's it. Do you see the state mentioned anywhere?

 

And since every single President in the last 80 years has expanded the state, that means the Republicans among them were actually *gasp* socialists, according to the logic you're following.

 

 

 

OK, so what are we arguing about, this is exactly the opposite of a Jeffersonian democracy, which is what American right is all about.

 

Huh, so, every ideal that isn't espoused by the American "Jeffersonian" democratic right is automatically leftist?

 

Yeah, pretty much.

 

The idea is to redefine what "right-wing" means, to exclude everything that isn't "free trade and small government", even if that means leaving out anything from traditional examples of right-wing ideology (cf. Kinder, Küche, Kirche) to the original right-wing, those who literally sat on the right side, and who supported authoritarianism as embodied by the French mother****ing king.

 

Nevermind that "free trade and small government" already has a closer fitting denomination -- libertarianism. But if we use it, maybe we can't pin every calamity that has befallen humanity since the French Revolution on "socialists".

Edited by 213374U

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It feels weird to me that people nowadays say Hitler and all the jazz around him was left-wing, while we always learned in school that he was extreme right-wing. For years, it was clearly right-wing, I had yet to meet a single person who said otherwise. Not now anymore. Suddenly our violent dumbnut skinhead friends from back in school are the good guys and the actual left. Not exactly sure what to make of it, to be honest. :shrugz:

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Blame it on the internet, now you can have people blame nazi = right wing on google and others will actually believe it because it fits their preconceived notions.

 

How do you collectively own something without the government owning it? Any historical examples? And why is "democratic" part of the definition?

 

Easily. Publicly Listed Cimpanies are collectively owned and are not owned by the government, they're also at least theoretically little d democratic. Otherwise, Co-Ops, syndicates, Apoism etc etc, they're even properly democratic.

 

Personally, I'd get rid of 'democratic' though, and go for the straight 2-axes political compass style set up of having left (socialist) and right (capitalist) with both of those being independent of the authoritarian (statist, undemocratic)/ anarchism (libertarianism, democratic) axis.

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I can't imagine how bad Baldwin Trump must've been if this was the good one...

 

Huh. Well I know humor can be subjective, but I'm a bit surprised that wasn't worth at least a chuckle for you. I mean, they nailed the makeup, CNN is wearing a diaper, she pulls out a super soaker. Honestly I thought it was pretty spot on.   :p

 

 

It might have been somewhat better if it wasn't for the idiotic laugh track that was utterly ruining her delivery. ...And I didn't much like her delivery or this style of humor to begin with. :(

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It feels weird to me that people nowadays say Hitler and all the jazz around him was left-wing, while we always learned in school that he was extreme right-wing. For years, it was clearly right-wing, I had yet to meet a single person who said otherwise. Not now anymore. Suddenly our violent dumbnut skinhead friends from back in school are the good guys and the actual left. Not exactly sure what to make of it, to be honest. :shrugz:

Obvious evidence of left-wingist indoctrination of our youth
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I can't imagine how bad Baldwin Trump must've been if this was the good one...

 

Huh. Well I know humor can be subjective, but I'm a bit surprised that wasn't worth at least a chuckle for you. I mean, they nailed the makeup, CNN is wearing a diaper, she pulls out a super soaker. Honestly I thought it was pretty spot on.   :p

 

 

It might have been somewhat better if it wasn't for the idiotic laugh track that was utterly ruining her delivery. ...And I didn't much like her delivery or this style of humor to begin with. :(

 

 

That's not a laugh track, SNL is a live show.

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then they should've shut the heck up, they weren't even letting her do her bit before they started laughing about nothing, :p

Edited by Bartimaeus
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How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart.

In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance.

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SNL was pretty bad to be honest.

It feels weird to me that people nowadays say Hitler and all the jazz around him was left-wing, while we always learned in school that he was extreme right-wing. For years, it was clearly right-wing, I had yet to meet a single person who said otherwise. Not now anymore. Suddenly our violent dumbnut skinhead friends from back in school are the good guys and the actual left. Not exactly sure what to make of it, to be honest. :shrugz:

My understanding is that the socialist wing of the NSDAP(Rohm and the Strassers I believe) was purged, with the exception of maybe Goebbels, to appease wealthy backers after which that whole privatization stuff we already talked about in the thread happened. Regardless his actions seemed closer to the liberal and conservative parties of today than the socdem policies of other western states at the time, and certainly even farther away from the socialist polices of the ML states or revolutionary Catalonia. And I think discussing what they actually did as opposed to what they called themselves is more relevant to identifying ideology or policy.

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It feels weird to me that people nowadays say Hitler and all the jazz around him was left-wing, while we always learned in school that he was extreme right-wing. For years, it was clearly right-wing, I had yet to meet a single person who said otherwise. Not now anymore. Suddenly our violent dumbnut skinhead friends from back in school are the good guys and the actual left. Not exactly sure what to make of it, to be honest. :shrugz:

What's most hilarious of all is that across the pond 'Democrats' aka 'liberals' are considered 'leftist'.

The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.

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How do you collectively own something without the government owning it? Any historical examples? And why is "democratic" part of the definition?

 

For example share ownership.

 

Yes, this and agreements like trusts, partnerships and hedge fund investment or just normal investments that buy assets for the the financial return

 

So there are numerous ways to share ownership and the dividends and profitability 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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How do you collectively own something without the government owning it? Any historical examples? And why is "democratic" part of the definition?

 

For example share ownership.

 

Yes, this and agreements like trusts, partnerships and hedge fund investment or just normal investments that buy assets for the the financial return

 

So there are numerous ways to share ownership and the dividends and profitability 

 

 

I don't think this was what "collective own" means. We have that now, it just means there is more than a single person as owner.

Almost all big companies have shareholders, but does that mean they belong "to the people"?

 

No, the people who own shares dont technically own the company but rather benefit from profit in the form of dividends 

 

 

And no the company has no responsibility to anyone outside of the shareholders, management and board of directors 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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