Steam now has Paywall mods

[Zoraptor]

I have no problem with paywall mods. 

 

In theory, most people wouldn't have a problem with it I suspect. Mods greatly improve many games, and modders deserve appreciation. From that perspective it looks like a great idea, modders can choose whether they want to be rewarded and how much, buyers choose what they want and don't have to buy anything. Hard to argue against, even if it is something that was free now being charged for.

 

So it could pass muster in that respect, in theory, at least if the proportions of the monetisation were adjusted to be less rapacious. But it will still be a maximally disclaimed/ buyer beware system where the really fundamental killer from a consumer perspective is that you know there will be problems, publisher and Steam will maximally disown said problems (while still accepting their share of the money, of course) and you know that you will have to deal with Steam 'Support' to try and fix said problems and get refunds. Worse, if you get mod squatters the people who actually made the stuff have to deal with steam support to stop someone else profiting from their work. I wouldn't accept that if it were from a company like GOG with decent support and good curation, or even from Gamersgate who have good support. This system really needs both good curation and good support, steam is... not exactly brilliant at either.

 

And whatever else it is, it is quite transparently designed to push modders onto steam workshop, exclusively, and kill off competition.

[Nonek]

Good Lord, so Bethesda will take a substantial cut of profits from the modders who have made their games a success in the first place, that's...well I have no words.

 

Here finish and improve my game then pay me for the pleasure of doing so!

[ruzen]

that why im waiting for gog galaxy

you mean gog gona make skyrim mods free? I dont know what you mean

[Gorgon]

Well I've made a landmark decision so to speak. I'm getting Witcher on GoG. Not buying on steam anymore if there are other options. I tend to agree that their market dominance is becomming a negative.

[Orogun01]

yeah, the big projects that take a dozen guys and thousands of hours and actually add something cool like the kotor 2 restoration or Third Age.. Sure, but this is horse armour for 8$ and a shameless money grab. Glad to see the outrage and I hope it gets canned - but also great to open discussions on proper rewards for modders and how that should be handled.

That horse armor that was made by a guy that works 35 hours a week and wishes to make a living doing what he loves...but yeah let's say that it is evil for one person to make mods on their free time and try to make a living out of it.

Also, if steam is taking 75% then **** those guys.

[Ineth]

Its disgusting imho, I would gladly support donations etc, but this will stiffle the open source and freedom of the modding community. Reallh hate it and very dissapointed in this development.

 

Modding has never been very open-source anyway.

 

From what I've seen, most (PC gaming) modders...

• work alone
• have huge egos
• keep their source/work files and tools secret
• seem allergic to the very concepts of collaboration and sharing

I.e. it's the norm for mod authors to forbid other people from even redistributing their mod on other download sites than the one they themselves have chosen. And don't you dare make your own mod even compatible with another person's mod, without personally asking that person for permission first - then all hell will break loose.

 

So yeah, the modding community has a fundamentally different culture and mindset than the open-source community.

[Gorgon]

 

yeah, the big projects that take a dozen guys and thousands of hours and actually add something cool like the kotor 2 restoration or Third Age.. Sure, but this is horse armour for 8$ and a shameless money grab. Glad to see the outrage and I hope it gets canned - but also great to open discussions on proper rewards for modders and how that should be handled.

That horse armor that was made by a guy that works 35 hours a week and wishes to make a living doing what he loves...but yeah let's say that it is evil for one person to make mods on their free time and try to make a living out of it.

Also, if steam is taking 75% then **** those guys.

 

Some kind of quality ensurance is inevitable. I don't think we will be seeing any horse **** mods on the workshop, not when Steam is taking a cut. All the wonderful crazy is going away.  Perhaps for good ?. I mean when all the talented guys are making horse armor. 

[Fighter]

Out of all the multitude of Skyrim mods have there been any with good story content? I'd be down for someone taking the assets of Skyrim and crafting an actual good story campaign.

 

75% however doesn't sound reasonable.

[ruzen]

heres another modder view about this

[Hurlshort]

I don't have a problem with Bethesda getting a reasonable cut of mod profits.  They've created the framework after all.  I don't have a problem with Steam getting a cut either.  But it should be 10%, not some crazy high number.

[Valmy]

 

I think the pricing will sort itself out over time.  The free market has a way of self-adjusting.  I'm still trying to wrap my head around Valve taking 75%, though.

 

Valve and Bethesda, it's been said. I read on reddit that Valve actually takes 30% - similar to the cut they take for other sales - but there's no way of confirming it.

 

Ah ok that actually makes sense. Though we probably should confirm this before declaring Valve or Bethesda a corrupt overlord or whatever.

[Gorgon]

I don't have a problem with Bethesda getting a reasonable cut of mod profits.  They've created the framework after all.  I don't have a problem with Steam getting a cut either.  But it should be 10%, not some crazy high number.

The established price for getting money for doing practically nothing is set by Kickstarter I should think. 5%. 

[Fighter]

I think in theory the profit incentive and access to AAA assets it can produce really amazing things.

[rjshae]

So... will this mean they will have mod sales?

 

I think it will work itself out just like the indie market. Only some of the modders will be really successful at it; others will give up and return to the free modding community.

[Keyrock]

Well I've made a landmark decision so to speak. I'm getting Witcher on GoG. Not buying on steam anymore if there are other options. I tend to agree that their market dominance is becomming a negative.

I will likely too, once GOG Galaxy comes out, that is.  Quite frankly, I value the convenience Steam and it has generally steered me to buying from Steam (or getting a Steam key from a 3rd party) over GOG.  Once GOG Galaxy is out, and assuming it has feature parity with Steam (at least as far as the features I use), then I'll gladly buy from GOG, assuming the prices are the same.  Until then, I'm stuck with GabeN, because I don't want to give up the convenience. 

[Bartimaeus]

 

Its disgusting imho, I would gladly support donations etc, but this will stiffle the open source and freedom of the modding community. Reallh hate it and very dissapointed in this development.

 

Modding has never been very open-source anyway.

 

From what I've seen, most (PC gaming) modders...

• work alone
• have huge egos
• keep their source/work files and tools secret
• seem allergic to the very concepts of collaboration and sharing

I.e. it's the norm for mod authors to forbid other people from even redistributing their mod on other download sites than the one they themselves have chosen. And don't you dare make your own mod even compatible with another person's mod, without personally asking that person for permission first - then all hell will break loose.

 

So yeah, the modding community has a fundamentally different culture and mindset than the open-source community.

 

 

I always thought it depended on the mod community specifically. Most Infinity Engine mod communities were/are usually pretty good in these regards, whereas...say...Warcraft 3's...well...it's utterly ridiculous the lengths modders (map-makers) went/go to "protect" their assets from anyone else using them for anything - particularly coding techniques, where you had to learn an entirely different coding language if you wanted to read most "protected" map's coding, and you had to learn it after it's been obfuscated and mangled beyond belief.

[Bartimaeus]

 

I don't have a problem with Bethesda getting a reasonable cut of mod profits.  They've created the framework after all.  I don't have a problem with Steam getting a cut either.  But it should be 10%, not some crazy high number.

The established price for getting money for doing practically nothing is set by Kickstarter I should think. 5%. 

 

 

Eh. It really depends. Steam set the standard for games at ~30%, bandcamp set the standard for music at...uh, 20% or something close to that, kickstarter 5% as you said...it depends on how useful the service is, and how much power it wields. Steam, it would seem, unfortunately wields a bit too much for comfort. Kickstarter is kind of unique, though, given that raising money is the entire focus of the website...I'm surprised it's as high as 5% - I was expecting more like 2 or 3.

[Nonek]

This clip really is the new Downfall Hitler thing:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDyXIXyAZq0

[Gorgon]

 

 

Its disgusting imho, I would gladly support donations etc, but this will stiffle the open source and freedom of the modding community. Reallh hate it and very dissapointed in this development.

 

Modding has never been very open-source anyway.

 

From what I've seen, most (PC gaming) modders...

• work alone
• have huge egos
• keep their source/work files and tools secret
• seem allergic to the very concepts of collaboration and sharing

I.e. it's the norm for mod authors to forbid other people from even redistributing their mod on other download sites than the one they themselves have chosen. And don't you dare make your own mod even compatible with another person's mod, without personally asking that person for permission first - then all hell will break loose.

 

So yeah, the modding community has a fundamentally different culture and mindset than the open-source community.

 

 

I always thought it depended on the mod community specifically. Most Infinity Engine mod communities were/are usually pretty good in these regards, whereas...say...Warcraft 3's...well...it's utterly ridiculous the lengths modders (map-makers) went/go to "protect" their assets from anyone else using them for anything - particularly coding techniques, where you had to learn an entirely different coding language if you wanted to read most "protected" map's coding, and you had to learn it after it's been obfuscated and mangled beyond belief.

 

that's not really the case with skyrim though. You usually install 5 or 6 mods first whose only purpose is to make other mods work. If each of those, UI framework and extention mods had to get paid first, well. Skyrim modding simply wouldn't have happended to the extent it did. 

[Meshugger]

This clip really is the new Downfall Hitler thing:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDyXIXyAZq0

 

"As a next step, we will be selling bugfixes"

 

Goddammit, i can already see it, added on top of everything else from before:

 

Normal version: 49,99€

Extended version with 2 years post production bugfix guarantee: 69.99€

Hardcore collector version with 5 years post production guarantee: 89.99€

Curator version: Unlimited access to mod community bugfixes from the cloud, 50 years guarantee: 499.99€

 

Quotes from the media:

 

- "This accomplishes museum quality of games. Your game will always be up to date, better than before" - Polygon

- "This ensures great quality of games for the next generation of gamers" - Kotaku

Edited April 24, 2015 by Meshugger

[HoonDing]

Where is the ~Hitler rants about paid mods~ video

[Bartimaeus]

that's not really the case with skyrim though. You usually install 5 or 6 mods first whose only purpose is to make other mods work. If each of those, UI framework and extention mods had to get paid first, well. Skyrim modding simply wouldn't have happended to the extent it did.

 

Indeed. Baldur's Gate also has something similar: TobEx (Throne of Bhaal Extender), except obviously on a smaller scale, since this is BG we're talking about. A few major mods (Item Revisions and Sword Coast Stratagems off the top of my head) use it, though. I don't think modding can work as a legitimate enterprise. A lot of commercial software - modeling and texturing software comes to mind - is used in modding that software companies don't care about because it's not being used for profit - and nevermind straight up re-using other people's assets that is pretty rampant in most modding communities (regardless of whether permission is given or not). I hope any mods that require purchasing are closely scrutinized for legal issues, and dealt with accordingly. I also hope Valve gets its head on straight one of these days, but...I'm not holding my breath, since I can't think of any notable examples of that ever occurring to a large corporation in a truly meaningful manner. Oh well.

Edited April 24, 2015 by Bartimaeus

[Mera]

I wonder if that new toolset enabled D&D game is going to use this.

 

 

Imagine all the romance mods
 

[IndiraLightfoot]

This clip really is the new Downfall Hitler thing:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDyXIXyAZq0

I don't know about you, but that donkey-like laugh is truly contagious! I'm still smiling, ha ha ha...

[Lexx]

 

lel.

 

Getting a hard time taking this seriously.