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Steam now has Paywall mods


Shadow_Arms

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I see what  Valve is doing as making money off the backs of the laborers.  25% to the modder and 75% to Valve and Bethesda.  I have donated to modders when they made a mod I enjoyed and felt was well done.  A twenty four refund policy is unreasonable.  It can take hours of play time to find aa conflict or problem with a mod.  I also see legal issues.  A modder gets paid for their work and I have no problem there but what about those who may have contributed to the mod?  Voice actors, another modder, a modler etc.  Sure you can say it is up to the modder to reimburse them but will he or she.  I also see tax issues.  This now income to the modder.    My feeling is that Valve has opened a can of very nasty and poisonous worms. 

 

 

Briefly mentioned in item 3

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/workshoplegalagreement/?appid=72850

 

 

Sorry for the double post. I was just trying to edit the first post but I must be drunk or dumb. Those are the only two options

Edited by ShadySands

Free games updated 3/4/21

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Paywall mods are now popping up on several torrent-sites. Dear lord, i still have a difficulty reading this. Not the game. Not the expansions. Not the DLCs. Just mods.

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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I only dabble in modding but something about making monetizing it doesn't feel right to me. Probably why I'm not rich.

 

Yeah, probably handing out keys for free every other tuesday has something to do with it too. ;)

 

On the bright side, we may see a "Great Mod Giveaway" thread popping up here soon...

 

 

 

LOL. Can't resist the urge to direct a bit of snark at the people you are ripping off, huh Gabe? Good show.

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- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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So. Steam has started charging for mods.  I have never used a content mod, so the new change mostly does not affect me. The only "mods" I have used are unofficial patches that fix bugs that were left unfixed by the developer's final official patch. So here is my concern:

Some developers like Bethesda and Obsidian are infamous for releasing products in very, very buggy states. After the initial release of a broken game, Bethesda or Obsidian would put out a few obligatory patches. Then the developer would stop, so they can move on and redirect their resources to newer titles.  Bethesda and Obsidian have never fully patched a game to a completely stable condition. In the end, it has always been the fans who took over and continued to make mods to patch the game over many years.

So, will we have to pay for those fan-made "unofficial patches" (which are actually mods)?

My next concern:

When Bethesda, Obsidian and other studios see that people are willing to pay for unofficial patches, (and those are the mods for which people are most willing to pay,) how long do you think it will take them to start charging for official patches?

The industry will standardize a new practice. After the initial release, studios will put out one or two obligatory "follow up" patches to fix the major bugs. Then, for any further patches, you will have to pay for them. They will tell you those patches are "optional". They will justify it by telling customers, "We still have to put in manpower and resources, we still have to pay our employees, to continue to make patches. We have to recoup those costs, but in return our customers gets the better experience!"

You know it will happen.

Edited by ktchong
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Class action lawsuits would prevent that; unless some stipulation makes it into the EULA, and turns out to be enforcible.  I don't see why one should  expect this of Obsidian though. People with pride in their work would not likely think that worth doing ~even if it by some chance that were ever considered.

 

I seem to recall that Tim Cain mentioned that additional Troika had patches for Temple of Elemental Evil, but that Activision forbade them to release it.

Edited by Gizmo
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Class action lawsuits would prevent that.

 

Class action lawsuits against fans who provide unofficial patches? 

 

I dunno, do you think we can use class action lawsuit to force electronic manufacturers to provide support after the typical one-year warranty period?  So what makes you think class action lawsuit will force developers to provide long-term support for free?

 

What law requires software developer to completely patch their products? If there is such a law, then a lot of developers - Obsidian being a prime example - have broken and are breaking that law right now.

Edited by ktchong
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Class action lawsuits would prevent that.

 

Class action lawsuits against fans who provide unofficial patches? 

 

I dunno, do you think we can use class action lawsuit to force electronic manufacturers to provide support after the typical one-year warranty period?  So what makes you think class action lawsuit will force developers to provide long-term support for free?

 

What law requires software developer to completely patch their products? If there is such a law, then a lot of developers - Obsidian being a prime example - have broken and are breaking that law right now.

 

The owner of the IP is responsible for it so they could have sent a cease and desist letter. I don't know if it would hold up in court that they are liable but certainly it would hurt their image. I don't think any developer worth their salt is unable to see that public opinion affect sales, but Valve hasn't been a developer for a while now.

I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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It's the small baby steps.  People have already accepted paid DLC as okay.   When first-day DLC was introduced, I remember people were fuming and calling for blood.  Then, as the years have passed, now people do not even think much of day-one DLC anymore.  We have just accepted it.   Then came the micro-transactions and in-game purchases, which have become okay as well.   Now comes the paid content and cosmetic mods.  People are fuming and calling for blood right now.  Gabe Newell is taking fire and being dragged through the mud right in Reddit right now.  However, people are, slowly and gradually, being conditioned to think that is okay as well.

 

So what's next?

 

It's the small steps that slowly and gradually change how people feel about paying for things that used to be free and part of the products/services.  All those things that used to be included in the games for free. companies kept looking for ways to "monetize" them and make people pay for them.

 

If this slippery slope continues, I fully expect patches to become "optional" and "monetized" in my lifetime.

Edited by ktchong
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Class action lawsuits would prevent that.

 

Class action lawsuits against fans who provide unofficial patches? 

No of course not, not random strangers.

 

Our society has devolved to the point that a burglar can sue the victim for having broken their leg trying to break in to the house to rob them ~and win.

 

Imagine what would come of a situation where developers were charging customers for first year patches to correct a product that did not function properly from the outset; and the insinuation that this was pre-planned ~for profit. It's already a pretty bad stink if the game sells and is broke and them trying to fix it for free.

 

I don't see this happening from the developers.

 

As for the user created patch... it's dicey, but I don't really see a problem with charging for a careful work of bytes that change bytes.

(That doesn't mean I think they would get away with it unchallenged. I just don't see anything particularly wrong about it... other than it could be the above scenario in disguise.)

Edited by Gizmo
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When was the last time gamers brought a class action lawsuit against a game developer?

 

When was the last time gamers won a class action - or individual - lawsuit against a game developer?

 

When was the last time gamers successfully boycott a developer?

 

Ever?

 

Paying for patches will happen.  The class action will not. 

 

There will not even be a boycott.  Sure, gamers will call for one, but as if gamers can ever follow through a boycott.  Gamers calling for a boycott of a game or a studio is just like heroine addicts saying they are gonna boycott drugs.

Edited by ktchong
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It's the small baby steps.  People have already accepted paid DLC as okay.   When first-day DLC was introduced, I remember people were fuming and calling for blood.  Then, as the years have passed, now people do not even think much of day-one DLC anymore.  We have just accepted it.   Then came the micro-transactions and in-game purchases, which have become okay as well.   Now comes the paid content and cosmetic mods.  People are fuming and calling for blood right now.  Gabe Newell is taking fire and being dragged through the mud right in Reddit right now.  However, people are, slowly and gradually, being conditioned to think that is okay as well.

 

So what's next?

 

It's the small steps that slowly and gradually change how people feel about paying for things that used to be free and part of the products/services.  All those things that used to be included in the games for free. companies kept looking for ways to "monetize" them and make people pay for them.

 

If this slippery slope continues, I fully expect patches to become "optional" and "monetized" in my lifetime.

Remember how we became conditioned to accept pay to win on Dungeon Keeper? Oh wait, that **** didn't fly.

 

Really what they're doing is creating a better environment for piracy.

I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

village_idiot.gif

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Paywall mods are now popping up on several torrent-sites. Dear lord, i still have a difficulty reading this. Not the game. Not the expansions. Not the DLCs. Just mods.

Wonder how much is involved in 'cracking' those, if any. Certainly can't be as hard as breaking releases themselves. Makes it all the more funnier.

Edited by Malcador

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Class action lawsuits would prevent that; unless some stipulation makes it into the EULA, and turns out to be enforcible.

 

Didn't they get that covered already?

 

Also, this is big, but not so big that we need two threads, right? Merge pls.

- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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HkwFSPZ.png

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"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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So this is going to be what finally kills off the skyrim modding comunity. Well it's been a hell of a ride.

 

 

 

Never came close to morrowind modding community though.

"There once was a loon that twitter


Before he went down the ****ter


In its demise he wasn't missed


Because there were bugs to be fixed."


~ Kaine


 


 


 

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The cool factor is gone now though. Now and forever ?. 

 

I noticed they are pushing Skyrim legendary edition for 5 pounds. It's clear to me that the long term purpose here is to turn the skyrim workshop into a puppy mill for mods and make up the difference that way.

 

Time to move on to the next thing I suppose. I wonder what that is going to be. 

Na na  na na  na na  ...

greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER.

That is all.

 

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Sure will be something when Fallout 4 is unveiled soon, featuring a toolset that interacts incredibly good with the Workshop. Uploading your mods have never been easier! And, get this, now you can get paaaaid!

 

Cash rules everything around me, CREAM, get the money, dollar dollar bill ya'll.

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Imagine what would come of a situation where developers were charging customers for first year patches to correct a product that did not function properly from the outset; and the insinuation that this was pre-planned ~for profit. It's already a pretty bad stink if the game sells and is broke and them trying to fix it for free.

 

I don't see this happening from the developers.

Don't non-gaming software companies do this already though?

"Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them." -- attributed to George Orwell

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When was the last time gamers brought a class action lawsuit against a game developer?

 

When was the last time gamers won a class action - or individual - lawsuit against a game developer?

 

When was the last time gamers successfully boycott a developer?

 

Ever?

It's happened before.

 

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/class-action-lawsuit-commenced-over-buggy-battlefield-4-ea-calls-it-meritless-update/1100-6416790/

 

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/07/31/gearbox-responds-to-aliens-class-action-lawsuit-throws-sega-under-bus/

 

...

 

My thinking was not that a CAL would eventually vindicate anyone, but simply that that behavior would have the potential to draw CALs out of the woodwork; an unwanted hassle, probably not worth enacting  the nickel & dime patching scheme.

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Never paid for mods, never will I. And people need to do the same. If there is no support, these paid mods will die out.

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Paid mods, like DLCs, are not inherently evil, it's all about value.  Is the mod offering you enough substance to justify its asking price?  It's just like making any other purchase, does the content justify the price?

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Wonder if they will sanction people using free versions of to-pay mods.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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