Hidden Items and Stealth made me stop playing the game...

[DocDoomII]

 

It's nothing uncommon.

It like playing pokemon and wanting to collect all the pokemons.

 

I didn't say it was uncommon, I said it was potentially serious.  Lots of people have untreated mental illnesses.  It's nothing to be ashamed of, but if it starts to be a problem that is affecting your ability to live and enjoy your life then it might be time to seek treatment.

 

Hey, from my POV, messy, unorganized, non-completist people are the ones that need to be cured.

[Emptiness]

 

 

It's nothing uncommon.

It like playing pokemon and wanting to collect all the pokemons.

 

I didn't say it was uncommon, I said it was potentially serious.  Lots of people have untreated mental illnesses.  It's nothing to be ashamed of, but if it starts to be a problem that is affecting your ability to live and enjoy your life then it might be time to seek treatment.

 

Hey, from my POV, messy, unorganized, non-completist people are the ones that need to be cured.

 

 

Hehe, fair enough. 

[Sugam]

Silly post. Do you srs think the devs sat around all day at a table and thought to themselves "hay, let's make a simple sneak system that covers stealth, traps and hidden items because XYZ player will have a hernia and cry a lot!"

 

No, that's not why. It because of time constraints and money. They would love to go more into this, just like crafting; but could not due to what's realistic to getting other things into the game. If there is a sequel or perhaps in an expansion, this could further be improved upon. Holy Cow! Learn that this game is not going to be 100% perfect and tailored just for you. There are tons of things I personally don't like myself, but know this is just the beginning. Things WILL change for the better as long as they don't do what bioware does.

[FalloutBoy]

You didn't miss any good hidden items because there aren't any. The people stealthing around everywhere are wasting their time. I know because I'm one of them and I won't be doing this on my next playthrough.

[Darkeus]

I don't see the problem. I must say, imo, it is a pretty trivial complaint.

And I hate the word immersion as it pertains to games.... 

[Zidster]

I dont think its stupid or immersion breaking at all. Those items are HIDDEN, which means you have to look for them... if you feel the urge to put up every single piece of trash that lays out there, well then you have to keep looking very, very sharply. When I play I keep my eyes open for suspicious spots and only then I enter sneak mode.

[Dongom]

It's a crappy design sure, but not even remotely a reason to stop playing this great game.

[Darkeus]

 

 

It's nothing uncommon.

It like playing pokemon and wanting to collect all the pokemons.

 

I didn't say it was uncommon, I said it was potentially serious.  Lots of people have untreated mental illnesses.  It's nothing to be ashamed of, but if it starts to be a problem that is affecting your ability to live and enjoy your life then it might be time to seek treatment.

 

Hey, from my POV, messy, unorganized, non-completist people are the ones that need to be cured.

 

There is a point were completionist becomes perfectionist. Nothing wrong with wanting to do everything in a game, unless it becomes obsessive like I have seen with some people. When your life ends because you can't get a Kickstarter Steam Achievement like I saw complained about? You have some issues.

 

And anyway, we are talking extremes. Most gamers are not total completionist or totally sloppy and unorganized. Most of use fit in the very wide area in the middle of those two.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Darkeus

[kozzy]

Not an issue at all for me, I use stealth sometimes, mainly in dungeons, but definatly not all the time.

[KingNee]

I find that hidden stuff isn't hidden enough. I run around in turbo scout mode and reveal everything in no time, there's no chance you're gonna miss stuff unless you simply don't scout. 

 

Remember that ring in BG1 you had to mouseover to find in the wilderness? Remember getting loot by pickpocketing ghosts? Yeah, there's none of that here. 

[Jojobobo]

Yeah I wish you didn't have to scout for these items, I wasn't even aware it was necessary to begin with making me miss the valuable Disappointer. Surely you should be able to spot these items without scouting - sneaking is not going to improve your ability to physically see things and so it makes very little sense. Maybe if mechanics was -1 or -2 outside of scouting then fine (showing that they're now looking "harder" when in the scout mode, not that they were never using their trained capabilities at all which is currently the situation), but to have this "on or off" thing is slightly irksome when that really shouldn't be the case.

 

Hopefully it's something they might reconsider in future patches.

[Horrorscope]

Dungeons seems to be fine with me. In town, you should only be able to go into Stealth if others can't see you, otherwise they call you out for suspicious behavior. So perhaps make it work as is but other friendly NPCs wont allow you.

 

For D:OS I had to modify sneak so NPC's had 360 degrees of viewing, it was stupid being in a room, waiting from them to turn, steal, then sell their **** back to them or when they turn around the place is barren and they don't notice.

 

Sort of related.

 

No sneaky with friendly NPC's around. One of your players when attempting would say... "Can't do that here."

[Emptiness]

Surely you should be able to spot these items without scouting - sneaking is not going to improve your ability to physically see things and so it makes very little sense. Maybe if mechanics was -1 or -2 outside of scouting then fine (showing that they're now looking "harder" when in the scout mode, not that they were never using their trained capabilities at all which is currently the situation), but to have this "on or off" thing is slightly irksome when that really shouldn't be the case.

 

Hopefully it's something they might reconsider in future patches.

 

It isn't that you can't spot things without sneaking, it is that you can't spot things without slowing down and looking carefully.  This game just happens to combine both of those mechanics - sneaking and moving slowly while looking around carefully - into one button.

 

The IE games had two buttons, one for each mode, but most of the time (95% or more, in my case, I'd estimate) players ended up using them both together.  In this game they are combined to streamline the interface and save players from having to click them both on or click them both off every time they want to change states.

 

The way PoE handles sneak and search is a big improvement.  To those who can't handle always running around in sneak mode + double speed, I offer for your consideration the alternative available in the IE games, which was sneak mode without double speed.  Play like that for an hour and then turn double speed back on and see for yourself how much better things are in PoE.

[communard]

Consider that effectively you would be moving very slowly around the town, hitting random bits of wall with a small hammer and so forth to actually find these hidden stashes. Which is a pretty strange thing to do in any case. Not sure why you think being able to run around while doing that would be "immersive".

[Lito]

Hey guys, I appreciate your opinions on the thread. I just wanted to show my particular dissatisfaction with this minor aspect of the game, I wasn't expecting such a fuss. I will leave this discussion with a suggestion/feedback... I have 2 suggestions to ease my "problem":

 

1- Make detecting items a passive, without the need of stealthing. Stealth button still operates the same (stealthes and find traps).

2- Make separate buttons: Stealth / Search. Stealth stealthes, Search searches hidden items/traps. Player will still need to hit a button to look for something but the characters don't go into shadowy.

 

I wouldn't suggest changing what particular stat or attribute let you find things because this would be much more complicated for them to adress, I think...

 

Since this is a singleplayer experience, players have different priorities, playstyles, etc... I know many of you don't care, but to me my experience would be vastly improved if my character could find hidden objects without being stealthed. Think about this when you think about the stash. The 1st time I noticed I could access my stash anywhere that felt wrong. It felt wrong but I actually loved it since I'm a hoarder =P And there's an option to disable it for those people who want a more realistic/classic approach. Maybe they could implement another option regarding finding those darn hidden objects too?

Edited April 5, 2015 by Lito

[ledroc]

I just use the strategy guide and it drastically sped up the game for me.

 

Sure it sort of breaks the "immersion" but then Im not stupidly sneaking through rooms for no reason

 

and for traps I just reload if they hurt too bad.

 

Call it "cheating" but my time is limited so these are my options.

 

I would much prefer to have a rogue type character always on

 

Wasnt that what happened in BG with Imoen? the rogue chick?

 

she would find stuff all the time.

[kat7ra]

1. Why wouldn't a fighter, wizard barbarian "scout" before engaging in combat, it makes PERFECT sense, it doesn't mean you can sneak up on people with a barbarian, but it does mean he won't yell and sing and knock casseroles together when he's exploring a dangerous new area. It's only an immersion breaker if you think of it as normal rogue stealth, which it isn't.

 

2. While there is an argument to made for a search mode and a scout mode, instead of just a scout mode, having a "search" function which requires you to take some time (almost nothing to be fair) looking for hidden doors and items makes perfect sense in a roleplaying game.

 

Have some patience, and if you can't be bothered then I'm wondering how you can be a completionist (No offense meant, but as one myself I know that patience is the key factor to being one)

[Trauma_Hound]

I just use the strategy guide and it drastically sped up the game for me.

 

Sure it sort of breaks the "immersion" but then Im not stupidly sneaking through rooms for no reason

 

and for traps I just reload if they hurt too bad.

 

Call it "cheating" but my time is limited so these are my options.

 

I would much prefer to have a rogue type character always on

 

Wasnt that what happened in BG with Imoen? the rogue chick?

 

she would find stuff all the time.

 

Nah man, your game, play it how you want to play it, people are always like "man I want a mod for this or that," when they can do it in the command console, like modding the game isn't the same thing as using the command console to do the same thing. People just like to try and justify their "cheating" with some obscurity or another, makes them feel superior. As long as you're having fun, that's what matters.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Trauma_Hound

[gkathellar]

In my experience, you only need to Scout 100% of the time in dungeons and that's mainly because they have traps (which somehow insta-knockout even a very high Endurance character). In the wilderness and in towns, the hidden items are usually near something out of place (e.g. a campsite in the forest), though it might still help to Scout if you are expecting enemies. Also, those items are usually nothing special -- the most common useful one is a Camp Supply and the most common expensive one is a random Fine weapon or something of the sort.

QFT. Hidden item locations are pretty predictable, once you know what to look for, and they're mostly random scrolls or a few hundred pand.

[Kabyk]

Regarding OP, a true completionist probably would've gotten the strategy guide (and I think it has hidden item locations in it, if other posts are to be believed).

 

Secondly, my favorite part of the original post was that he was PERFECTLY HAPPY missing all the items when he didn't know about them. Just running through areas in Defiance Bay as content as can be. Ignorance truly is bliss, eh?

 

Thirdly, an earlier post mentioned that this game is relatively easy (after an early hump) and you won't be using 70% of the items you find anyway, not counting the hidden ones, which as has been noted is usually a scroll of fire or some money; it's not like you're finding the Ultima weapons in the hidey holes.

[ceribaen]

To tie it in with another request that generated a lot of conversation... I just consider 'stealth' to be 'walk mode'.

It's not so much that everyone's sneaking around, it's just that everyone's walking and paying attention to their surroundings rather than just crashing around like a herd of elephants.

[Alavanger]

could just allow us to see hidden things while walking using a perception check.

 

wait is there even a way to walk?

[Luckmann]

could just allow us to see hidden things while walking using a perception check.

 

wait is there even a way to walk?

 

No.

[Azureblaze]

I just use the strategy guide and it drastically sped up the game for me.

 

Sure it sort of breaks the "immersion" but then Im not stupidly sneaking through rooms for no reason

 

and for traps I just reload if they hurt too bad.

 

Call it "cheating" but my time is limited so these are my options.

 

I would much prefer to have a rogue type character always on

 

Wasnt that what happened in BG with Imoen? the rogue chick?

 

she would find stuff all the time.

Hehe, if only the guide actually had all the hidden spots. I've learned it doesn't!

 

Example 1:

Ogre cave, a really nice item is there around where the Ogre is initially if you sneak to find, it's not in the guide.

 

Example 2:

Searing falls Cave (Where "Cail the Silent Lives")

There is a treasure hidden in his treasure trove, a 2 handed sword. Not in the guide.

 

 

There is more than that, actually the guide has quite a few inconsistencies and that will only continue to grow as the game updates which is understandable..

[kalel78]

what they need to do is allow you to stealth a single character ONLY.. that way you can have the one character do your scouting/disarming and the rest can stay back.. then when the coast is clear, have them move to you. 

 

to me it never made sense that i select my stealthy character, hit stealth and ALL characters have stealth.

 

otherwise.. going slow and trying to find hidden items and secrets are part of the charm with these kinds of games.  i dont want them to get rid of it.. just allow for the above and its fine.