Update #40: Orlan First Look and Ziets on Pantheon Design

[Skie Nightfall]

I think I'm gonna love those orlans. Great portrait!

[Volourn]

"lso it's kinda silly for all these priests of deity X to claim their
deity is the one true god in a system where there's many different real
gods and everyone is aware of that including themselves. Add to that
that all these gods are petty and mortal, and the silliness just gets
out of control.

 

Either make people behave in a way that's consistent with these many
deities' relative importance (i.e. they would usually pray to several
different gods, for instance), or change the pantheon to make the gods
worthy of the exclusive reverence they expect. As it stood in D&D it
just wasn't believable."

 

You completely misundersatnd how the D&d/FR pantheon works. In fact, majority of people in the Realms pray to multiple dieties as you suggest. And, most dieties don't try to force peopel to only worship them. On top of that, some dieties actually pledge loyalty to other gods and expect their followers to do the same (see Helm). Also, not all the gods are petty and mortal. ie. The Creator Gods ala Moradin of the dwarves and Corelleon of the elves don't act like that (and they do basically act as our god does for our repsective races). heck, even duergar still respect Moradin as the Creator and their chosen dwarven god still  a part of the dwarven pantheon.

 

In conclusion, don't post about stuff you obviously know very little about.

 

 

ABOUT UPDATE: SolId stuff. The listed goddess definitely has potential.

[Ladon]

I get a lot of vibes from Neil Gaimans American Gods.

 

Interesting update, thanks for that one!

[cyberarmy]

Out little friend looks like a cipher on some investigation. Love the looks, looks like a middle age private eye with his pistol and while holding evidence with a napkin

Can use one or two of these guys in my dwarwen ripper squad

 

Also great update about deities!

Edited January 30, 2013 by cyberarmy

[Gyges]

I am pleased with this. I do hope the next race will be less familiar in appearance though. The kossith of the qunari are one of the more interesting races to have come out of a new ip in recent years, as an example.

[kozzy]

Awesome update!!!
Obsdian, you guys just rule, I have loved the past games you guys have made and am really looking forward to this game and the new South Park!

 

Keep the updates coming!

[fortuntek]

Great update! I'm particularly pleased and inspired by the interesting name choices, especially Woedica (love the name, not to mention the rest! Really, truly a stellar start)

One thought about the pantheon building though: while it's nice to see the amount of depth put into each god/goddess and the variety of items in the portfolios of single deities, I wonder: do the gods act according to their portfolio, or is their portfolio really a description of their actions? It seems that D&D deities are written as though the former is the case, while the latter would appear to allow for less linear conceptions that can change over time based on their actions (i.e. Woedica comes to kill an oathbreaker but upon approaching the person, a widowed mother with child in her arms, breaks the tendency towards Vengeance and leaves, and subsequently changes her perspective in favour of widows or young mothers etc, and this becomes part of her portfolio)

 

Just a thought

Edited January 30, 2013 by fortuntek

[fortuntek]

I still maintain that there ought to be a God of Confusion though Has few worshippers, very little power... but manifests himself in small, misunderstood ways. This god wouldn't just cause confusion, but would actually be confused himself. Therefore divine interventions are rather unpredictable and misguided or unasked for (but usually rather harmless).

[infernofrost]

The name reminds me of Boudica, so I wonder if they have a correlation as powerful women who ended in downfall.  Great stuff!

[Frisk]

The orlans look interesting, and I absolutely love the deity example.  Nice update - thanks.

 

One thing I wonader about is how much of the background info (like the deity backstory) will be avalable in-game (such as in manuscripts encountered by the PC) and how much will only be available externally (such as in downloadable PDFs)

 

Anyhow, I love this kind of information - it makes the world feel more...well, "complete".

[WorstUsernameEver]

I like the illustration, don't really think much one way or the other of the deity description, given that I don't feel I really have much context to mentally place it "in the world" yet.

[Darkpriest]

Cipher looks to me like a CSI: P:E

 

Great stuff - 'nough said.

[Feersum Endjinn]

I'm going to hate myself for this, but...

 

Surely Woedica is derived from (or is intended to evoke) Boudica, the warrior queen who lived several centuries before the Germanic tribes that became the English came to Britain.

 

So technically it's old British/Celtic, not old English.

 

Sorry.

[Helm]

  ZIEEEEEEEEETS!

 

On of my favorite developers has finally written an update. Fantastic!

 

Thank you so much for the excellent update. You are a beacon of light through the fog of Project Eternity.

[sorophx]

"Orlan" means "eagle" in Russian. I wonder if it's a coincidence that the character has bird-like features

[Wombat]

A god of greed?  I wonder if there is a real world example.  Will people worship a god which symbolizes vice in their own language/notions?  Of course, people from other cultures have different opinions/attitudes but I don't think he is talking of such case here.

 

Alliance/hostilities among gods can be implemented in interesting ways.  For example, in Rune Quest, as well as it works in simulating social relationship between characters, ruleset-wise, characters are not only allowed to access abilities granted by the object of their own worship but also their alliances (although in limited ways).

 

Thanks for the update, anyway.  I think it's the first update form creative team.

[Majek]

It would be cool if we get all this info included in the strategy guide or world almanac.

No, not really. So they can freely change something if it gets in the way in later games. Retcons that we know about are fairly annoying.

[Theobeau]

Great update, always good to hear from Ziets who got a stretch goal all to himself.

 

I wonder whether the Orlan is more in the style of Benedict Cumberbatch / Sherlock or Johnny Miller / Elementary ? 

 

Who knows perhaps I got it wrong and it is more Lucy Liu / Dr. Joan Watson!

[OliverUv]

Excellent update, made me subscribe to the forums! Always happy to receive the weekly updates, but this one is really starting to get into the meat of the game.  Woedica has a wonderful concept, and I'm certain your imagination will create a wonderful world for us to explore.

 

Other forumers talked about polytheistic pantheons and how their worship differs from worshippers of monotheistic worship. It's an important distinction, and polytheists shouldn't be belittled. A large part of today's religions is polytheistic (hinduism, the amalgam of buddhism and traditional Taiwanese deities, etc). The world is composed of interacting parts, and is also one whole. Neither is false nor true. Now, on to more interesting stuff:

 

Please please make sure that the standing of gods is integrated into the game dynamics in some way. I remember the incredible feeling of 'making a difference' in Planescape by simply believing a different thing, though the effects of this was rarely seen in the game world - something I'm sure you can rectify.

 

Also: Why have only polytheistic pantheons? The Romans had many polytheistic believers as well as monotheistic ones clashing and co-existing with each other. Along with soul dynamics, this could give rise to a MOST interesting conflict. One worthy of mainquest

 

In PE, souls give the populace even stronger reason to take belief seriously than in our world. Can a polytheist faith accept the existence of a monotheistic faith that claims ownership of all souls? A monotheist faith could either include or exclude the existence of a polytheistic pantheon (Brahman contra Yahweh). What if believers supplied part of their soul to the gods they worship, what if worship gives power? Can a polytheist accept the existence of those who threaten that their all-powerful god casts non believers into eternal damnation, slavery, etc?

[Lantros]

This update made me subscribe the forum. I love the updates, but with this one i´m starting to get feel for the world.

 

When i read your infos about Woedica, first thing that came to my mind was "The Crippled God" from malazan book of the fallen. Ofcourse not a copy, but similar concept and I LOVE IT!

 

Greetings from germany and sry for my english.

[PrimeJunta]

Day-um, they found a way to make pointy-eared humanoids badass. Mad props for that. 

 

Now all you have to do is find someone with a voice like Benedict Cumberbatch doing a Scots accent. I expect Benedict Cumberbatch himself would kind of blow the voice-acting budget out of the water. Unless he's a backer himself of course. You never know...

Edited January 30, 2013 by PrimeJunta

[Rajaat the Warbringer]

Great update! Looking forward to learning about the rest of the pantheon ^_^

[Anaeme]

I wonder if Woedica was actually dethroned or whether that is a story  her followers made up because of how she chooses to manifest herself 

[bowenandarrow]

I like the idea of starting with God's,
when you are writing a plan for anything you always need the overarching goals
and objectives to guide where you are going or you are side tracked by
unimportant things. That said I would want to be sure while doing that process
you make sure that you don't put the cart before the horse.

Also one of my disappointments with a great
deal of RPG's with a fantasy setting is that they lack the proper integration
of the deities into the narrative of their story; the deities having a clear
impact on the story that is explicit enough to notice(or personal) but not too
much that it feels like events are out of the players control. One of the only
games I have played that has really used this to their advantage is both Baldur's
Gate's. The way they built the sense of anticipation of WTF is going on with
the creature you start turning into throughout the game and linking it back to
Bhaal was quite amazing. The knowing that something bigger is going on but not
really knowing played to a very big advantage in opening out the narrative and
creating a sense of control over the immediacy of your environment but the
adventure of not really being in control. I think these factors, mixed with a
very good micro narrative are a very potent combination in creating a lasting
and ultimately Epic(in the original sense of the word) story. In my opinion
this is the stumble Bioware made with the original ending for mass effect three
that people were up in arms about. They reached for the bigger story(meta narrative)
and they failed. Another good case study for this is Fallout 3 vs Fallout New
Vegas. Again, in my opinion, Fallout three failed to deliver a overarching
narrative that was bigger than you could just minimise and thus no real bigger
goal to reach for. Fallout New Vegas on the other hand offered, while sometimes
over the top, a bigger story to what was happening on a number of fronts. Not necessarily
God's but things that represent greater powers like the NRC, Mr. house etc.   

One of the issues, as you would no doubt
know, is that nice graphic, a fantastic battle system, good voice acting and
the like only go so far. You have to forget you are playing a game and tap into
that part that allows you to completely forget you are sitting in front of a
computer, you have to believe you are on an adventure.    

Edited January 30, 2013 by bowenandarrow

[IndiraLightfoot]

Josh asked for continued speculation on the basis of the Orlan picture:

Well, after having enlarged the jpg in Photoshop and after some sharpening and colour shifts, I'm rather sure I can read the sign in the upper left corner:

It says "PONYTAIL", and although a bit doglike, it is a pony that seems to be a rocking horse. Interestingly that toy did not appear before the 17th century. I actually own one myself from the 19th century. 

 

So perhaps PE will be based on other 17th century stuff as well.

 

Well our Sherlock Orlan decipher has a flintlock pistol in his belt, introduced at the beginning of the 17th century.

Finally, the sign on his vest certainly is interesting: a symbol for water at the bottom, a fist clenching a rod above it. Could this be symbol for the god of light and redemption? I mean, redemption of a crime and all that. But the rod is not particularly shining if it's supposed to be a symbol of light. Or is our Orlan a member of a customs office in the city: the waves being the water in the harbour, the clenched fist equals autority and the rod is a symbol for a pen and straight books and tariffs. He feels a bit like a constable scrying the weapon, which certainly has pierced somebody deep. The blood is high up on the blade.