Update #18: George Ziets, Paladins, Add-Ons, Rewards, and More!

[curryinahurry]

Nice update.

 

I'm excited about seeing the first screenshot on thursday. I really hope Obsidian have got it just right, as I think it's the kind of thing that could really influence pledges a LOT, for better or worse.

They are using the same basic methods as ToEE. So that is the baseline that I am expecting. Anything better than that would be bonus, but anything worse would be a bit of a letdown.

 

ToEE would be ok, but I wasn't wild about portraits and lighting was wonky in outdoor areas. I hope they can bring their game up a level, particularly with ambient lighting (ambient sounds as well, but that is another story) which is always a bit weak in most CRPGs; 2d and 3d.

[ogrezilla]

portraits are pretty much completely separate from the rest of the in game graphics I would think.

Edited October 10, 2012 by ogrezilla

[Gyor]

I will be the discordant voice here...

 

While I am happy that Obsidian considers adding to its design team a valuable and experienced designer (and for that reason, I wish we will reach the 2.8M), I am more wary (to say the least) toward the addition of two new classes.

 

New classes... again... Once again, the stretch goals unveiled are only about mechanisms, old school features, instead of offering story and exploration oriented features : increased world size, new city, new questlines...

 

I know that story remains a key objective of PE. Nevertheless, how does it come that Obsidian prefers to focus its communication and its aims regarding the develoment of the game on mechanics ?

 

There were able to offer very story oriented features in former updates : look at sretch goals 1.6M and 2.2M. I wish Obsidian would offer new updates like these ones. After all, wasn't the Shadowrun Returns additional city stretch goal one of the most exciting offered by this project ?

 

Based on previous comments on this update, it looks like adding new classes generate quite an appeal in the community. Yet, I think there are many people that would love to have more story oriented stretch goals. I do not blame Obsidian for adding some mechanism related stretch goals, I reproach them to do ONLY mechanism related goals.

 

So I hope we will be able to add Mr Ziets to the team, but I also wish for story oriented stretch goals. Maybe a 3M USD new goal ?

 

Mr. Ziets is a story orientated goal. Where do you think story stuff comes from if not writers. With one more writer you have all the writing, lore, NPCs, originizations, maybe even new areas and so on that he creates in addition to what the current writers are creating, which means more content and an improvement in content.

 

The new Pally sounds cool, like the love child of 4e Warlord, 4e Paladin, and the Pathfinder Cavalier (especially the orders and causes focus in the cavalier). The Palace guard by the way is a throw back to the original prechristian Paladins in a sense. I believe Some Emperors had a Palatine guards or something. At least I think I read something along those lines.

 

Rereading the Chanter, the Chanter really sounds like across between the Bard and the Shaman, with Chants (music/stories) that interact with the spirits of the world.

 

For what comes next I wouldn't mind some more races and thier regions.

[Bos_hybrid]

Great update Obs. Really good to hear Ziets is back.

[curryinahurry]

I will be the discordant voice here...

 

While I am happy that Obsidian considers adding to its design team a valuable and experienced designer (and for that reason, I wish we will reach the 2.8M), I am more wary (to say the least) toward the addition of two new classes.

 

New classes... again... Once again, the stretch goals unveiled are only about mechanisms, old school features, instead of offering story and exploration oriented features : increased world size, new city, new questlines...

 

I know that story remains a key objective of PE. Nevertheless, how does it come that Obsidian prefers to focus its communication and its aims regarding the develoment of the game on mechanics ?

 

There were able to offer very story oriented features in former updates : look at sretch goals 1.6M and 2.2M. I wish Obsidian would offer new updates like these ones. After all, wasn't the Shadowrun Returns additional city stretch goal one of the most exciting offered by this project ?

 

Based on previous comments on this update, it looks like adding new classes generate quite an appeal in the community. Yet, I think there are many people that would love to have more story oriented stretch goals. I do not blame Obsidian for adding some mechanism related stretch goals, I reproach them to do ONLY mechanism related goals.

 

So I hope we will be able to add Mr Ziets to the team, but I also wish for story oriented stretch goals. Maybe a 3M USD new goal ?

 

Mr. Ziets is a story orientated goal. Where do you think story stuff comes from if not writers. With one more writer you have all the writing, lore, NPCs, originizations, maybe even new areas and so on that he creates in addition to what the current writers are creating, which means more content and an improvement in content.

 

The new Pally sounds cool, like the love child of 4e Warlord, 4e Paladin, and the Pathfinder Cavalier (especially the orders and causes focus in the cavalier). The Palace guard by the way is a throw back to the original prechristian Paladins in a sense. I believe Some Emperors had a Palatine guards or something. At least I think I read something along those lines.

 

Rereading the Chanter, the Chanter really sounds like across between the Bard and the Shaman, with Chants (music/stories) that interact with the spirits of the world.

 

For what comes next I wouldn't mind some more races and thier regions.

 

Actually, this version of the Paladin has me intrigued. I never really cared for the alignment-based D&D characters as I hated alignment, so this more warlord/ cavalier type character could suit me fine. I need to read up on the 4e warlord!

 

I'm also really interested in the concept of a loremaster/ artificer character. I've been really wanting good support characters in this game, and hopefully this will fill that slot.

[Gyor]

It would have been nice to have some rogue/non-hero/evil classes instead of the strait up leans heavily toward good. Something like assassin, necromancer, dark knight, cutlist...etc. Tired of the 'hero' classes and dissapointed that is mostly what we have at the stretch goals. Even if they added some now as another stretch goal, it will be probably too late and everybody is tapped out. palidans, bards(oops..I meant chanters), barbarians... *sigh* I am happy for those who like these classes, it is just a shame that those of us who like playing something different got the short end of the straw.

 

Whose says any of these classes have to be,heroic. The Rogue as described sounds like a cross between a Rogue and a 4e assassin. Paladins are super devoted to causes, but no says those causes have to be good. A Paladin could be a member of an order devoted to Genocide against elves and forced conversions, another to defending an Evil King, and yet another to liberating Evil Eldar Gods, or something as simple as an order of Death Knights that believe in the suppiority of Undeath.

 

And Chanter's Chants sing to wayward spirits, I could see a Dirge Still bard with necromantic tricks, like summoning ghosts or the damned to attack.

 

Wizards, well wizards will probably have dark spells of various types.

 

Priests can worship dark gods.

 

Rangers well I not sure what they plan for Rangers, beyond bows/ranged weapons.

 

Fighter are just soldiers, it's a skill set without preconvieved morality.

 

Don't know about monks as they concieve them. Hungery Ghost and Drunken Master styles would be cool though.

 

Druid don't know enough about thier plans, but thier maybe something like Blight or Swarm Druids.

 

Ciphers are feared as a threat to free will its self and the souls of others. The fluff suggests Psion mixed with Dread Necromancer and the 4e ardent (they manipulate not just minds, but your soul and can draw power from the Souls of others).

 

 

 

 

 

[rjshae]

It would have been nice to have some rogue/non-hero/evil classes instead of the strait up leans heavily toward good. Something like assassin, necromancer, dark knight, cutlist...etc. Tired of the 'hero' classes and dissapointed that is mostly what we have at the stretch goals. Even if they added some now as another stretch goal, it will be probably too late and everybody is tapped out. palidans, bards(oops..I meant chanters), barbarians... *sigh* I am happy for those who like these classes, it is just a shame that those of us who like playing something different got the short end of the straw.

 

There is no good or evil, only survival and extinction. That which brings survival for the self and the group is called good. /

Edited October 10, 2012 by rjshae

[Merin]

Actually, this version of the Paladin has me intrigued. I never really cared for the alignment-based D&D characters as I hated alignment, so this more warlord/ cavalier type character could suit me fine. I need to read up on the 4e warlord!

 

I'm also really interested in the concept of a loremaster/ artificer character. I've been really wanting good support characters in this game, and hopefully this will fill that slot.

 

Just to be clear, too... while the 4E paladin had to be divine power based and worship a god - they are not forced to be "lawful good." They can be any alignment.

 

In fact, 4E kind of did away with the traditional alignment system of previous editions. It only had Lawful Good, Good, Evil, Chaotic Evil and Unaligned (which, if you didn't care about alignment, you chose that one - it's not the same as old school True Neutral - in fact, they painstakingly did away with the word Neutral.)

[curryinahurry]

It would have been nice to have some rogue/non-hero/evil classes instead of the strait up leans heavily toward good. Something like assassin, necromancer, dark knight, cutlist...etc. Tired of the 'hero' classes and dissapointed that is mostly what we have at the stretch goals. Even if they added some now as another stretch goal, it will be probably too late and everybody is tapped out. palidans, bards(oops..I meant chanters), barbarians... *sigh* I am happy for those who like these classes, it is just a shame that those of us who like playing something different got the short end of the straw.

 

There is no good or evil, only survival and extinction. That which brings survival for the self and the group is called good. /

 

Yes, there's nothing in the description of any of the characters that implies, "good aligned only." Even the way the Paladin class is described, they come off more as zealots...think the Templars were "good?" Defenders of their faith, yes. But otherwise?

 

BadMojo, I understand the inclination to put things in the D&D frame of reference, but without an alignment system, a lot of the class kits (good oriented or evil oriented) really make no sense. A thief can be an assassin, a paladin can be an evil tyrant, a cipher can twist souls to do his/her dark bidding.

[JWestfall]

Great stuff in this update, excited to see what GZ can bring to the table. Chanters sound kewl - I foresee a true dilemma in choosing a starting class, which is a good thing methinks.

 

But most importantly - New Mouse Pad! Finally, I can retire my Max Payne pad I got with the original game back in circa 2001 (yes, I'm serious) - 'member those good ol' days, when games came in a box that was actually substantial enough to contain an entire mouse pad?

 

Also, I almost feel for you Obsidian guys - all the pressure from the great expectations of us frothing fans must be... intense

Edited October 10, 2012 by JWestfall

[Darth Trethon]

I don't think we were asking for physical add-ons as much as we were asking for a new physical tier altogether between $165 and $250. Most $140 pledgers can't add $120 to go to the $250 tier and don't want to lose out on the physical benefits of the $140 tier so why not make a physical tier at $180/$190??? Mouse pad is cool but not really what I had in mind.....most people want the expansion at a non-digital tier more affordable than $250.

 

Not only paladins but chanters now? Are you serious Obsidian? On top of Monks and Priests.....that's four classes that all do the same thing....preach. That's more than one third of all 11 classes. What's this....a worship along game? I mean what comes next? If the player doesn't stop to pray every 3 seconds the prayer meter depletes and the game ends?

 

As far as George Ziets goes that's great I suppose.....still I was rather hoping for an actual game update.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Darth Trethon

[Cantousent]

I'm not worried about Obsidz slighting the folks who want to go evil. I actually think they're better at coming up with evil options. I'm more worried that they won't come up with intelligent and thoughtful 'good' responses. However, they did great for both sides and the middle in MotB. Truly evil or 'good' options (and I don't think those ideas go out the window just because there is no alignment system) will be a great payoff for players who want to have a particular character type. Keep in mind that the concept of good or evil will be part of the spiritual and intellectual make-up of the population. A lot of 'evil' characters will undoubtedly see themselves as good. Some relatively nice characters will, if you dig deep enough, will exhibit some evil behavior. Some of those might even realize they have an evil tendency. Some of them won't. Some relatively nice characters will actually be beacons of goodness in their societies but will be just too busy trying to do their best to realize how decent and good they are. Some really 'good' characters will be good but wish every day they could just let lose and kill someone or even just take off and fish all day. In other words, it should be just like real life where we never really know the balance of the good or bad in our actions but most of us try to be decent citizens and human beings. With that in mind, some folks are goodie two shoes and some folks like being bad boys. The devs should find ways to reward the wide middle and throw some good stuff in there for the folks on either edge. I'm a little diminished right now, but that's my take.

 

EDIT: I think a lot of us rabble rousers were clamoring for physical add-ons, DT. I hope they find a way to include an xpac add-on for you folks at $140.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Cantousent

[Ieo]

Oh yeah, when are we going to see art pics of the shirts and mouse pad? Someone probably said something about that somewhere... bugger if I can find it.

 

Edit: Never mind, I see little pics are in the front page tier graphics. Which I never look at (I default to the update page).

Edited October 10, 2012 by Ieo

[NovanIV]

Warlord is an awesome class in 4E. It's really nice to have healing not come from magic all the time.

 

I never got to play a Warlord yet... but I have hopes.

 

One of my best times playing 4e was as a Warlord who NEVER MADE AN ATTACK ROLL. Seriously, every one of his powers was "An ally gets a bonus" or "An ally attacks"

I was a grumpy old (Eladrin old) retired general, and I just yelled at my companions to be better. At it totally worked, we all had a blast.

[Humanoid]

Thing about the requests for an additional physical tier around the ~$200 mark is that the obvious thing to add in, and the one seemingly requested most, is something they've gone out of their way to eliminate altogether in the past week. By upgrading the $250 book to hardcover, there's no longer any need to do a print run of the softcover. I imagine that it'd be a pretty tiny run now if they went back to it given it'd only need enough copies for the remaining week of pledges, and therefore it would be impractical at best and loss-making at worst to reintroduce the idea.

 

The only other things you could potentially wedge into the hypothetical additional tier are the expansion, plus a copy of Wasteland 2 (and maybe just another digital copy of the game, depending on whether the $250+ tiers end up with one or two such copies). Which is kind of weird, only adding non-physical stuff to the $140 tier, but I kind of see it as the only practical option for creating the proposed $180-200 physical tier. And "practical" is pushing it, given that Wasteland 2 can still be bought right now for $20 and therefore creating the net effect of selling the expansion for $20-40 on top of the $140 tier.

 

I don't think the drawback of this outcome - that is, the mixing of budgets between the base game and the expansion - is worth the supposed benefit of adding a few thousand dollars to the headline Kickstarter total figure. As expressed in some other thread here, it would be much more elegant in my view to instead provide a discount code (or just an pledger e-mail lookup) for all backers for the expansion on the Obsidian store when the expansion is actually released.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Humanoid

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Not only paladins but chanters now? Are you serious Obsidian? On top of Monks and Priests.....that's four classes that all do the same thing....preach. That's more than one third of all 11 classes. What's this....a worship along game? I mean what comes next? If the player doesn't stop to pray every 3 seconds the prayer meter depletes and the game ends?

 

 

Nobody seemed to have a problem with BG2.

[Jackalmonkey]

 

It's our pleasure to introduce our next stretch goal of George Ziets at $2.8m - with your help, we'll successfully ransom Ziets' professional future for a mere 100k! And without your help, Ziets remains as jobless as he was when his project was canned six months ago! Yes, Obsidian Backers - WE ARE HOLDING ZIETS HOSTAGE! Pay us more or he eats ramen at the Y for another half year! (By the way, no guarantees he gets to stay around if we do bring him back - paying health insurance for another full-time employee is just so gosh-darned expensive in Obama's America!)

Maybe that's too many exclamation points, but that's more or less how it reads to me.

[Metabot]

I don't think we were asking for physical add-ons as much as we were asking for a new physical tier altogether between $165 and $250. Most $140 pledgers can't add $120 to go to the $250 tier and don't want to lose out on the physical benefits of the $140 tier so why not make a physical tier at $180/$190??? Mouse pad is cool but not really what I had in mind.....most people want the expansion at a non-digital tier more affordable than $250.

 

Not only paladins but chanters now? Are you serious Obsidian? On top of Monks and Priests.....that's four classes that all do the same thing....preach. That's more than one third of all 11 classes. What's this....a worship along game? I mean what comes next? If the player doesn't stop to pray every 3 seconds the prayer meter depletes and the game ends?

 

As far as George Ziets goes that's great I suppose.....still I was rather hoping for an actual game update.

 

I think you're making a serious caricature of the differences between those four classes. Maybe you should actually read the updates and descriptions.

 

"Chanters can be found in almost any culture, but are most often seen in communities with a strong oral tradition. They are repositories of folk knowledge and common wisdom, tellers of tall tales and hallowed legends. Though chanters have a bit of minor talent in traditional arts of combat and soul-based magic, their true power lies in their chants. Chanters construct chants from individual iconic phrases and rhyming couplets they have memorized from hundreds of stories and poems, creating a chain of magical effects that plays out over time. "

[Bobby Null]

I will be the discordant voice here...

 

While I am happy that Obsidian considers adding to its design team a valuable and experienced designer (and for that reason, I wish we will reach the 2.8M), I am more wary (to say the least) toward the addition of two new classes.

 

New classes... again... Once again, the stretch goals unveiled are only about mechanisms, old school features, instead of offering story and exploration oriented features : increased world size, new city, new questlines...

 

I know that story remains a key objective of PE. Nevertheless, how does it come that Obsidian prefers to focus its communication and its aims regarding the develoment of the game on mechanics ?

 

There were able to offer very story oriented features in former updates : look at sretch goals 1.6M and 2.2M. I wish Obsidian would offer new updates like these ones. After all, wasn't the Shadowrun Returns additional city stretch goal one of the most exciting offered by this project ?

 

Based on previous comments on this update, it looks like adding new classes generate quite an appeal in the community. Yet, I think there are many people that would love to have more story oriented stretch goals. I do not blame Obsidian for adding some mechanism related stretch goals, I reproach them to do ONLY mechanism related goals.

 

So I hope we will be able to add Mr Ziets to the team, but I also wish for story oriented stretch goals. Maybe a 3M USD new goal ?

 

Mr. Ziets is a story orientated goal. Where do you think story stuff comes from if not writers. With one more writer you have all the writing, lore, NPCs, originizations, maybe even new areas and so on that he creates in addition to what the current writers are creating, which means more content and an improvement in content.

 

The new Pally sounds cool, like the love child of 4e Warlord, 4e Paladin, and the Pathfinder Cavalier (especially the orders and causes focus in the cavalier). The Palace guard by the way is a throw back to the original prechristian Paladins in a sense. I believe Some Emperors had a Palatine guards or something. At least I think I read something along those lines.

 

Rereading the Chanter, the Chanter really sounds like across between the Bard and the Shaman, with Chants (music/stories) that interact with the spirits of the world.

 

For what comes next I wouldn't mind some more races and thier regions.

 

Actually, this version of the Paladin has me intrigued. I never really cared for the alignment-based D&D characters as I hated alignment, so this more warlord/ cavalier type character could suit me fine. I need to read up on the 4e warlord!

 

I'm also really interested in the concept of a loremaster/ artificer character. I've been really wanting good support characters in this game, and hopefully this will fill that slot.

 

I've been pestering Josh about getting a leader archetype in the game for quite a while. I'm a really big fan of the 3.5 D&D Marshal. The Warlord in 4E was based off this class as well. When we started discussing a kind of Marshal/Paladin mix for a class I got pretty excited. PE's Paladin will be pretty unique for a CRPG and alot of fun.

[Ieo]

I've been pestering Josh about getting a leader archetype in the game for quite a while. I'm a really big fan of the 3.5 D&D Marshal. The Warlord in 4E was based off this class as well. When we started discussing a kind of Marshal/Paladin mix for a class I got pretty excited. PE's Paladin will be a very fun class to play.

 

So am I reading the description correctly that the PE paladin's skills may be centered AoE? Possibly both offensive/defensive/heal? Because that sounds all sorts of cool to me...

[Gyor]

I will be the discordant voice here...

 

While I am happy that Obsidian considers adding to its design team a valuable and experienced designer (and for that reason, I wish we will reach the 2.8M), I am more wary (to say the least) toward the addition of two new classes.

 

New classes... again... Once again, the stretch goals unveiled are only about mechanisms, old school features, instead of offering story and exploration oriented features : increased world size, new city, new questlines...

 

I know that story remains a key objective of PE. Nevertheless, how does it come that Obsidian prefers to focus its communication and its aims regarding the develoment of the game on mechanics ?

 

There were able to offer very story oriented features in former updates : look at sretch goals 1.6M and 2.2M. I wish Obsidian would offer new updates like these ones. After all, wasn't the Shadowrun Returns additional city stretch goal one of the most exciting offered by this project ?

 

Based on previous comments on this update, it looks like adding new classes generate quite an appeal in the community. Yet, I think there are many people that would love to have more story oriented stretch goals. I do not blame Obsidian for adding some mechanism related stretch goals, I reproach them to do ONLY mechanism related goals.

 

So I hope we will be able to add Mr Ziets to the team, but I also wish for story oriented stretch goals. Maybe a 3M USD new goal ?

 

Mr. Ziets is a story orientated goal. Where do you think story stuff comes from if not writers. With one more writer you have all the writing, lore, NPCs, originizations, maybe even new areas and so on that he creates in addition to what the current writers are creating, which means more content and an improvement in content.

 

The new Pally sounds cool, like the love child of 4e Warlord, 4e Paladin, and the Pathfinder Cavalier (especially the orders and causes focus in the cavalier). The Palace guard by the way is a throw back to the original prechristian Paladins in a sense. I believe Some Emperors had a Palatine guards or something. At least I think I read something along those lines.

 

Rereading the Chanter, the Chanter really sounds like across between the Bard and the Shaman, with Chants (music/stories) that interact with the spirits of the world.

 

For what comes next I wouldn't mind some more races and thier regions.

 

Actually, this version of the Paladin has me intrigued. I never really cared for the alignment-based D&D characters as I hated alignment, so this more warlord/ cavalier type character could suit me fine. I need to read up on the 4e warlord!

 

I'm also really interested in the concept of a loremaster/ artificer character. I've been really wanting good support characters in this game, and hopefully this will fill that slot.

 

I've been pestering Josh about getting a leader archetype in the game for quite a while. I'm a really big fan of the 3.5 D&D Marshal. The Warlord in 4E was based off this class as well. When we started discussing a kind of Marshal/Paladin mix for a class I got pretty excited. PE's Paladin will be pretty unique for a CRPG and alot of fun.

 

Actually my first thought was this was like more magical Cavalier class from Pathfinder, what with orders/causes and the focus on team work. Then the commands idea made me think about Warlords from 4e, which made me realize that themetically Pathfinders Cavaliers are a cross between Paladins and Warlord but with Pathfinders 3.x variant rules.

 

I can't help, but wonder if PE Paladin's will have a mount feature of some sort, even if it just speeds up movement on the overmap. Both Paladins and Cavaliers often have mounts via class features and Warlords rock with granted mounts. It also leaves enough room in the class for Blackguard style characters.

[choasrepeated]

Not only paladins but chanters now? Are you serious Obsidian? On top of Monks and Priests.....that's four classes that all do the same thing....preach. That's more than one third of all 11 classes. What's this....a worship along game? I mean what comes next? If the player doesn't stop to pray every 3 seconds the prayer meter depletes and the game ends?

Don't forget druids as well :b

And rangers and barbarians are just glorified shamanistic versions of the paladin and monk..

But seriously paladins, priests, monks and bards (I know its not quite a bard) are common RPG troupes

Edited October 10, 2012 by choasrepeated

[cyberarmy]

The screenshot on Thursday has me all a quiver. Nice to see you're getting George Ziets back to help with the project, the creative team seems pretty exhaustively awesome at this stage.

 

heh me too. I dont think i can sleep next night Well i got company at least, sweet X-Com and Dishonored!

[IndiraLightfoot]

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ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.......IIIIIIIIIII......EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.......TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT....SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

............................ZZZZZZ............IIIIIIIIIII......EEEEE.........................................................TTTTT......................SSSSS...........................

....................ZZZZZZ....................IIIIIIIIIII......EEEEE.........................................................TTTTT.......................SSSS............................

..............ZZZZZZ..........................IIIIIIIIIII......EEEEEEEEEEEEEE....................................TTTTT......................SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

.......ZZZZZZ.................................IIIIIIIIIII......EEEEEEEEEEEEEE....................................TTTTT......................SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

...ZZZZZ.......................................IIIIIIIIIII......EEEEE..........................................................TTTTT.....................................................SSSS

..ZZZZ..........................................IIIIIIIIIII......EEEEE..........................................................TTTTT....................................................SSSS

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...........IIIIIIIIIII......EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.........................TTTTT.......................SSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.........IIIIIIIIIII......EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.........................TTTTT.....................SSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Edited October 10, 2012 by IndiraLightfoot

[DocDoomII]

IndiraLightfoot, you should try using the

 tag