TURN BASED combat in Deadfire?!

[Zinnwaldite]

Tried it for a bit. Was fun in the early game at least, but i have no idea how it would feel later on.

[AndreaColombo]

I commend Obsidian for their commitment to supporting Deadfire long after its release, not giving up on it despite the fact that it probably didn’t sell as much as expected, and listening to player feedback.

 

I too prefer RTwP but if there can be an option for TB, that’s great. I’m all for player options and flexibility—and where else would you find a game that offers this kind of flexibility?

 

Looks like there’s at least one more big patch to go, then

 

EDIT: I’m also intrigued by that new ship combat UI.

Edited December 21, 2018 by AndreaColombo

[Manveru123]

 

Then there's other things like how would engagement even work?

 

I understand that many people prefer turn based, but just imagining an enemy going around my tank is enough for me to want to stick to RTwP. But let's see how they deal with this and other problems.

 

If this makes battles longer, then I'll definitely play with RTwP because it took a lot of time for me to finish my first pt. One way or another, it's a great option for players.

 

RTwP is fantastic in this game because of scripts. Normally, if you have a big group, micromanagement is a beach. But with scripts, you skip most of that!

[Saito Hikari]

The more I think about this, the more I wish Obsidian just let us test this turn-based mode through the holidays while making it clear that this was an accidental release and it's still in a rather unfinished state. Call it an early Christmas gift to the fans that bought the game or something.

 

I am already theorycrafting possible mechanics and builds for turn-based mode that most people probably wouldn't even bother with in RTwP mode, although it all hinges on how engagement/attack of opportunities are handled. If it works the way I think it does (merely moving past a non-blinded/immobilized melee character provokes an attack of opportunity), reach weapons/equipment that specifically boosts or counters attack of opportunities are going to see a LOT more use.

 

This leak did tell me some important things, however. Obsidian isn't going to half-ass turn-based mode if they kept this under wraps for MONTHS. The fact that this was only accessible through a new playthrough rather than allowing us to switch on the fly means that if you choose to go turn-based, you're going to essentially play an entirely rebalanced game designed specifically for turn-based combat.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Saito Hikari

[Silvaren]

 

Then there's other things like how would engagement even work?

 

I understand that many people prefer turn based, but just imagining an enemy going around my tank is enough for me to want to stick to RTwP. But let's see how they deal with this and other problems.

 

If this makes battles longer, then I'll definitely play with RTwP because it took a lot of time for me to finish my first pt. One way or another, it's a great option for players.

 

Engagement can be solved just the same as in D&D. Ofcourse without attacks of oportunity while someone cast spell near enemy, but walking nearby - yes.

 

The Temple of Elemental Evil done this right. Every character and monster have threat range. Enemies running in or out of this range provokes attack of oportunity. Number of possible engagement can determine how many of those attacks can be performed.

[Quillon]

RTwP is best when the game's fully 3D/with custom viewing angles for clarity & fun TB might be better on the 2D maps of PoE but I prefer RTwP either way.

[Wormerine]

RTwP is fantastic in this game because of scripts. Normally, if you have a big group, micromanagement is a beach. But with scripts, you skip most of that!

What’s the fun in not playing the game? I have everyone on autoattack (and occasional no AI if I want to time my recovery) and manage every ability use. It’s way more fun that way, than watching figurines smash it out with little imput from yours truly (what can I say - I am a control freak).

Edited December 21, 2018 by Wormerine

[Manveru123]

 

RTwP is fantastic in this game because of scripts. Normally, if you have a big group, micromanagement is a beach. But with scripts, you skip most of that!

What’s the fun in not playing the game? I have everyone on autoattack (and occasional no AI if I want to time my recovery) and manage every ability use. It’s way more fun that way, than watching figurines smash it out with little imput from yours truly (what can I say - I am a control freak).

 

It gets extremely tedious after a while. Most non-boss fights look exactly the same: I always use the same abilities in the same order, because it works best. Why wouldn't I want to automate it? In my opinion customizable scripts is the second greatest thing in Deadfire (after Eder).

 

It's the same with stuff like pre-buffing in other games of this type. Like in Kingmaker you can have a party of 6, but I always run with 4 people just to cut down on tedious buffing between each rest.

[gkathellar]

WANT

 

 

 

RTwP is fantastic in this game because of scripts. Normally, if you have a big group, micromanagement is a beach. But with scripts, you skip most of that!

What’s the fun in not playing the game? I have everyone on autoattack (and occasional no AI if I want to time my recovery) and manage every ability use. It’s way more fun that way, than watching figurines smash it out with little imput from yours truly (what can I say - I am a control freak).

 

It gets extremely tedious after a while. Most non-boss fights look exactly the same: I always use the same abilities in the same order, because it works best. Why wouldn't I want to automate it? In my opinion customizable scripts is the second greatest thing in Deadfire (after Eder).

 

It's the same with stuff like pre-buffing in other games of this type. Like in Kingmaker you can have a party of 6, but I always run with 4 people just to cut down on tedious buffing between each rest.

 

A lot of that is a function of having too many fights.

 

Tbh, for all that I like both PoEs, they've given me a newfound respect for the pacing of tactics RPGs, where fights tend to be long and involved enough that they can also be relatively few in number and integrated more fully into the narrative. So you might have a "drake and boars fight," but you'd only have one, instead of three.

Edited December 21, 2018 by gkathellar

[juanval]

Why to develop a new game when you can implement turn based combat and multiplayer in a GOTY rpg game?

 

If technically is possible, turn combat feature is a great idea.

 

Perhaps we can see one day PoE3 with 2 combat options and multiplayer

[Ancelor]

TB for POE will be a dream come true for me. I've been thinking about combining POE with first dos when they both came out. Recovery will need serious rework though

[gloomseeker]

I prefer turn based games myself. No need to hit the space key so much.

[Triple - A Foxy Lad]

the great virtue of rtwp is being able to steamroll trivial mobs. the devs can safely provide enough of them to give a sense of activity without slowing the game down. also it gives the players a chance to mindlessly enjoy their power for stretches. if every battle is meaningful it can numb a sense of mastery over the world

 

turn based games - that arent attrition based like jrpgs and wizardry - hinge on having talented set piece designers. u have too many trash encounters and the game becomes a chore. too few, and the game feels empty - also if game consists of only a few impeccably sculpted tactical challenges, replayability suffers because everything is a puzzle u solve only once.

 

that said, i dont have a great preference either way. varietys the spice of love and life etc.

 

if they do seriously have a crack at implementing turn-based combat in deadfire, then ill be very eager to play it. i might even try to push the game on a couple of friends who might find the rushing river of rtwp overwhelming.

[MaxQuest]

How do "action speed" and "recovery time" modifiers translate to this turn-based mode?

[Wormerine]

I wonder if it will be getting inspirations from Josh's tabletop design.

[house2fly]

If I had made a list of things I expected to be patched into the game eight months after release, a turn-based mode wouldn't have even been on it. It seems completely insane- to make it work even passably well you'd need to basically design a new set of mechanics from the ground up and design every ability, item and enemy to use the new mechanics in a way that makes sense. I'm wondering if it's something experimental they were trying and had no plans to put it in the game until they were sure it worked. The UI looks more detailed than you'd think for a placeholder though

[gkathellar]

If I had made a list of things I expected to be patched into the game eight months after release, a turn-based mode wouldn't have even been on it. It seems completely insane- to make it work even passably well you'd need to basically design a new set of mechanics from the ground up and design every ability, item and enemy to use the new mechanics in a way that makes sense. I'm wondering if it's something experimental they were trying and had no plans to put it in the game until they were sure it worked. The UI looks more detailed than you'd think for a placeholder though

 

They were talking about a tabletop version, right? Maybe it's implementing those mechanics.

[kanisatha]

Since I will never play this game TB this has no relevance for me.

 

What intrigues me, though, is the number of RTwP preferring folks in this thread who are so very supportive of Obsidian creating this option for those who prefer TB. I contrast this with the pro-TB totalitarians in the inXile and Larian forums who attack and ridicule anyone who even suggests a RTwP option for a TB game. Seems like accommodating others' preferences is a one-way street for a lot of people.

[house2fly]

I wonder how easy it is to convert one system to the other from either end?

[hilfazer]

What intrigues me, though, is the number of RTwP preferring folks in this thread who are so very supportive of Obsidian creating this option for those who prefer TB

 

This is a kind of information Obsidian wanted to gather.

That "accidental" release of TB mode was done to probe us. They want to know if they should bother with adding TB to the game.

[juanval]

In my case, I wouldn't play an IE style game in turn based combat, but if TB makes the game more popular enough to develop more PoE games, I will be happy with that.

[Titus_Draconius]

This would be an amazing development. 

[kanisatha]

In my case, I wouldn't play an IE style game in turn based combat, but if TB makes the game more popular enough to develop more PoE games, I will be happy with that.

Indeed, and one could also hope it sets a precedent for devs like Larian and inXile to go the other way.

[Guest Blutwurstritter]

PoE II has much more active abilities and shorter duration's on spells than the old I.E. games. Generally it requires much more attention and input than the old games causing me to pause it so often that feels already pretty much like a turn based game. Reading all the afflictions buffs and duration and then figuring out if my next spell will still into the time frame of some buff/debuff, for examples, can be quite exhausting and tiresome. I know that you don't have to play like this but i think anyone who tries to optimize his actions during combat can relate to this.

Turn based mode would certainly make it more enjoyable for me since it should become much easier to time actions of multiple characters. In turn based mode it is much easier to plan ahead and to execute tactics. A turn based mode would be a nice addition. 

[Wormerine]

Since I will never play this game TB this has no relevance for me.

 

What intrigues me, though, is the number of RTwP preferring folks in this thread who are so very supportive of Obsidian creating this option for those who prefer TB. I contrast this with the pro-TB totalitarians in the inXile and Larian forums who attack and ridicule anyone who even suggests a RTwP option for a TB game. Seems like accommodating others' preferences is a one-way street for a lot of people.

Yes? I would be less positive about it, if it was made for launch - my philosophy is: pick want you want to do and so it well, rather than half-ass many things. However, now when games is well out I don't see it as anything less than positive. I would prefer redesign of ship combat though... Though the ship encounter UI looks nifty.

 

I am curious who is responsible for it, and why it was made. Did someone wanted PoE to be turned based? Did low sales pushed higher ups to add turn based combat hoping to attract wider audience?

 

I wouldnt riot, however, if PoE were turned based in the first place. I do like my RPG real time but I feel this is more of my nostalgia working. There is no decent way of playing PoE (or IE games) without heavy pausing so I do believe that high reliance on stats and hit chances mean that this system is not the most intuitive with real-time combat. So while I prefer real time I curious how well Deadfire will play as turn based.