TURN BASED combat in Deadfire?!

[QuiteGoneJin]

How is attack speed done? If you have high dex do you get more actions/attacks in one round?

[Verde]

I feel like it's going to be entirely broken on release. There is nothing showing me that Obs has the ability to release something without a mountain of bugs for both new and existing systems.

[wih]

You are right.I was blinded by my love towards RTwP.I just want another POE game but I hope they won't completely switch to turn based combat.

 

 

It is easier to implement a turn based game on top of a real time game than vice versa, so if this turn-based mode is successful then we can see POE 3 on the same engine, which means it will also be a real time game at its core with a turn base mode added. This is much better than never seeing POE 3.

 

I think this is a great move from Obsidian and I wish them success.

[kanisatha]

 

You are right.I was blinded by my love towards RTwP.I just want another POE game but I hope they won't completely switch to turn based combat.

 

 

It is easier to implement a turn based game on top of a real time game than vice versa, so if this turn-based mode is successful then we can see POE 3 on the same engine, which means it will also be a real time game at its core with a turn base mode added. This is much better than never seeing POE 3.

 

I think this is a great move from Obsidian and I wish them success.

Maybe. I can also see that because TB is a simpler and less sophisticated concept than RTwP and easier to build than RTwP, a PoE3 could be only TB. And I'd rather have no PoE3 than that since that would be a major betrayal of the very idea of this game.

[InsaneCommander]

If everyone is guaranteed one action per round, then armor penalty is less of a problem?

[draego]

How is attack speed done? If you have high dex do you get more actions/attacks in one round?

 

Not exactly sure the formula but the description says your recovery affects your initiative. So dex affects it in a round about way by lowering your recovery you have faster initiative i suppose. but ye i wonder if everyone just has the same number of actions per round always are is there things that affect that. i did play for 10 minutes the first battle just to see. and there are free actions like wizard double that doesnt affect your actions but otherwise it looks like everyone has same amount of actions

[Saito Hikari]

A few observations on turn-based balance thus far:

 

- Knock Down seems to be purely an interrupt thing, I haven't noticed it affecting enemy movement during their turns.

- Rolling an Ascendant Cipher might not be a good idea for turn-based. I observed that on a character with 18 Intellect, Ascended status currently only lasts 2-3 turns - far, FAR less duration in comparison to RTwP mode.

- When I look at the Cipher ability list, some Cipher spells appear to be instant cast. (As in, labeled as a 'standard' action instead of a 'cast' action. Notable ones include Borrowed Instinct and Driving Echoes.)

Edited January 24, 2019 by Saito Hikari

[thelee]

All below said as speculation since I haven't touched TB yet.

 

If everyone is guaranteed one action per round, then armor penalty is less of a problem?

 

it would affect initiative, no? I'm assuming initiative works more like turn order in something like FFT or HoMM (where it affects how often your turn comes up) rather than D&D where everyone is guaranteed a turn per round.

 

 

A few observations on turn-based balance thus far:

 

- Knock Down seems to be purely an interrupt thing, I haven't noticed it affecting enemy movement during their turns.

- Rolling an Ascendant Cipher might not be a good idea for turn-based. I observed that on a character with 18 Intellect, Ascended status currently only lasts 2-3 turns - far, FAR less duration in comparison to RTwP mode.

 

 

Would prone affect enemy initiative or anything? In RtwP both prone and interrupt blocks enemy movement during the actual interrupt, main difference is that prone takes exactly 3s to recover from, whereas interrupt adds up +2s to current recovery, so it seems like in turn-based the difference would manifest in slightly slower turn order after being proned.

[Saito Hikari]

All below said as speculation since I haven't touched TB yet.

 

If everyone is guaranteed one action per round, then armor penalty is less of a problem?

 

it would affect initiative, no? I'm assuming initiative works more like turn order in something like FFT or HoMM (where it affects how often your turn comes up) rather than D&D where everyone is guaranteed a turn per round. 

 

 

 

Quick observation on this point, I haven't seen a single character get two turns per round yet, even with Eder rolling 1 initiative during one of my fights thus far. Which theoretically makes armor initiative penalty and proficiency toggles that increase/decrease initiative matter far less in turn-based mode than in RTwP.

 

Other observations:

 

- I am not even sure if the Hunting Bow modal (-15 accuracy and -50% initiative) is even working properly. I haven't really noticed it affecting initiative at all, but the -15 accuracy is a huge penalty for turn-based mode.)

(EDIT: It does affect initiative, but it only kicks in on the turn after you activate it/deactivate it, which makes sense. However, the accuracy effect kicks in immediately from the looks of it. Even then, the modal is pretty useless on a character that already has low initiative to begin with, as it doesn't appear to affect how many times you attack per round. Maybe it can be abused by attacking, then activating the modal to benefit from reduced initiative next turn if your archer needs to move up in the turn order, then deactivating it next turn to regain your accuracy.)

Edited January 24, 2019 by Saito Hikari

[Daled]

I have noticed that prone moves the enemy at the end of the round order, it's also possible that it adds some initiative so it moves him further down the list with the possibility that he may or may not be last.

 

Anyway, I don't feel initiative to be as important as recovery is in main game, especially for martial classes, but it may be important for casters as it allows the cast to end earlier.

 

Edit: The less relevance of recovery/initiative seems to affect really bad the fast weapon with low damage plus dual wield, that was already quite good, now is even better since you attack twice every round. There's even less of a point going with only a single-hand weapon like a duelist would.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Daled

[masterty66]

Can't you make additional attacks per round if you have enough initiative? 

[waltc]

OK, I'm running the latest beta--how to access turn-based?  Or is it actually there yet?  Maybe I missed it somehow in the Options settings.  I don't mind the automatic mode where you pre-configure the AI for each party member, and you can still set up things by pausing with the space bar--a' la' the original PoE1.  But a turn-based mode on the order of D: OS 2 would be terrific, too. 

 

I have the GOG beta, 4.1.xx19--is that it?

 

Never mind--it's coming through on the GOG beta channel right now!

Edited January 24, 2019 by waltc

[house2fly]

It might not be on gog yet; it's on steam right now. It isn't in the beta, it's in the full patch out today. Install the latest patch and then just select turn-based when starting a new game

[Ethics Gradient]

It went live on GOG within a few minutes of Steam.  Once you're updated to 4.1.0.0023, you should be able to see Turn-Based whether or not you're still on the beta branch.

[waltc]

It might not be on gog yet; it's on steam right now. It isn't in the beta, it's in the full patch out today. Install the latest patch and then just select turn-based when starting a new game

 

Thanks!  I spoke too soon--it's coming through on the GOG beta-channel right now!...   Actually, I have GOG set up to always apply the latest patch, beta or regular, and so the full patch is coming through now.

[Saito Hikari]

Super, super important thing to note. If you're casting a spell on an enemy in turn-based mode and the enemy dies right before the spell goes off, even for single target spells, the spell will still go off and it is essentially wasted. (I'm unsure if this was a thing during RTwP mode as well.)

 

(I'm not sure if this might have been due to Essence Interrupter spawning a new enemy right on top of the original, however. But it makes sense for this to be an intended interaction even if it didn't.)

 

It does appear that you can still retarget spells, however - probably why you can still pause during turn-based combat, since I believe this will give you time to retarget if only enemies get a turn before the spell goes off. However, if you are trying to retarget melee-range spells and there are no enemies in range from where you ended that caster's turn... You're **** out of luck.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Saito Hikari

[thelee]

Super, super important thing to note. If you're casting a spell on an enemy in turn-based mode and the enemy dies right before the spell goes off, even for single target spells, the spell will still go off and it is essentially wasted. (I'm unsure if this was a thing during RTwP mode as well.)

 

This is a thing for RTwP. Normally the workaround is to retarget or to cancel the action.

 

Historical note: in initial backer beta resources were consumed as soon as you began the action thus making it costly to even cancel action. I actually liked it, and would be pleasantly surprised if they effectively brought this back for TB.

[farleybear]

Just wanted to jump in quickly to say TB mode is awesome! This is the way I've always wanted to play PoE. Having so much fun with this. Bravo Obsidian, well done. Well done indeed.  

[Trogdor]

Can someone tell me how weapon speed is handled? Are there multiple attacks per round for fast weapons, compared to slow?

 

First impressions on balancing?

[InsaneCommander]

All below said as speculation since I haven't touched TB yet.

 

If everyone is guaranteed one action per round, then armor penalty is less of a problem?

 

it would affect initiative, no? I'm assuming initiative works more like turn order in something like FFT or HoMM (where it affects how often your turn comes up) rather than D&D where everyone is guaranteed a turn per round.

 

Quick observation on this point, I haven't seen a single character get two turns per round yet, even with Eder rolling 1 initiative during one of my fights thus far. Which theoretically makes armor initiative penalty and proficiency toggles that increase/decrease initiative matter far less in turn-based mode than in RTwP.

 

That is what I wanted to know. In Turn Based everyone has the same number of actions. But in RTwP a fast character could have more in a long battle.

[TheMetaphysician]

I started a thread over in the Strategies/Builds forum on turn-based tactics, and have some observations about the value of attack speed. I'll be interested in what others think of it.

[Verde]

Well I just completed the very first encounter of the game in turn based mode. I'm sorry to all of you that love RTwP but this is far superior. I hope they include it in all the new isometric games they make as well.

Wow the first encounter! Haha

[Manveru123]

Well I just completed the very first encounter of the game in turn based mode. I'm sorry to all of you that love RTwP but this is far superior. I hope they include it in all the new isometric games they make as well.

Ninjas are better than Pirates. I know because I saw a Ninja once but never a Pirate. Discuss.

[house2fly]

If you saw a ninja then what you saw was a bad ninja

[Manveru123]

Still liked him more than the Pirate though!