Political Thread XX

[Hurlshort]

 

Spoken like a true teacher. I remember those scenes from school. A group of older bullies beating some younger kid and teacher saying afterwards. Well you swinged your leg at him when he was jumping on your head so it was clearly two way street and you are as responsible as him and deserve equal punishment.

 

 

So Trump is a defenseless young kid? Oh, well now I really feel bad for him. Poor guy. 

[Gromnir]

 

 

Spoken like a true teacher. I remember those scenes from school. A group of older bullies beating some younger kid and teacher saying afterwards. Well you swinged your leg at him when he was jumping on your head so it was clearly two way street and you are as responsible as him and deserve equal punishment.

 

 

So Trump is a defenseless young kid? Oh, well now I really feel bad for him. Poor guy. 

 

 

https://www.npr.org/2017/07/04/535429508/trump-s-weekend-gives-twist-to-meaning-of-bully-pulpit

 

the present chief executive has helped change the definition o' a word while he attempts to simultaneous and incongruous appeal to his base by means o' his no-apology bluster (bullying) and at same time portrays self as the victim o' a media plot.  is fascinating how a segment o' the US voting populace doesn't see the inherent inconsistency, but such is 2018.

 

during the election, many defended trump's less-than-accurate bluster as campaign rhetoric. of course President trump wouldn't resort to such shenanigans once elected. 

 

started day one with trump calling the media liars in spite o' clear evidence undercutting his claims.  unfortunate, trump's base is holding the media to a much higher standard than they hold their guy. admitted you got more than a few members o' the media jumping down into the mud with trump to sling dirt, but by doing so the press loses legitimacy in the eyes o' ordinary republicans while the president mudslinging is applauded as tough and real. 

 

so while Gromnir sees ugly, brutal and pointless

 

 

trump supporters see the following:

 

 

madness.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps  double-link removed

Edited August 17, 2018 by Gromnir

[Elerond]

 

 

 

Why didn't previous presidents whine about fake news every day?

 

How many articles were comparing previouse presidents to Hitler?

 

 

Well Obama typically got compared to socialists, Bush got the village idiot labels, and Clinton got the Jerry Springer cheater treatment.

 

 

I am pretty sure even you can see that being called cheater (and in the end rightfully so) is not same as being called Nazi holocaust supporter

 

 

Obama got quite lot Nazi comprasions from his political opposition and it was not limited only to opinion columns

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/7888741/Barack-Obama-compared-to-Hitler-and-Lenin-in-Tea-Party-billboard.html

 

Barack Obama compared to Hitler and Lenin in Tea Party billboard

 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Elerond

[Malcador]

I guess this proves Americans just scare easily in general

[Hurlshort]

As I said, I actually give Trump a lot of credit for knowing how to manipulate the media situation to his advantage. There is no way he separates himself from the republican field without having a decent enemy to attack. Everyone else was targetting Clinton and he went deeper.

[ShadySands]

Let's dispel this fiction once and for all that Donald Trump doesn't know what he's doing. He knows exactly what he's doing; he's undergoing a systematic effort to change this country and make America more like the rest of the world.

 

[Gromnir]

As I said, I actually give Trump a lot of credit for knowing how to manipulate the media situation to his advantage. There is no way he separates himself from the republican field without having a decent enemy to attack. Everyone else was targetting Clinton and he went deeper.

 

am thinking you give trump too much credit.  conspiracy theories exist in part 'cause o' the need to see coordinated human agency behind events.  as a history guy, hurl no doubt recognizes how often events is simple the result o' mistake and misunderstanding.  is no doubt some axiom which expresses how human involvement in any event increases unpredictability. hanlon's razor? 

 

*shrug* 

 

am not seeing a plan behind trump.  as often as not he does things which hurt his efforts and he is utter surprised by the lack o' praise. stuff such as the putin meeting and charlottesville were not part o' some kinda trump plan. 

 

during the election, each mainstream republican candidate assumed that as their real rivals dropped out o' the race, they would gain additional supporters.  fundamental misconception.  exit polls showed how at the time o' the election, republicans were not enamored with trump (curious, trump has become more popular with his base since the election in spite o' a couple years worth o' relative impotence) but the trump voters hated hillary. well guess what? the republican voters hated most o' the other republican candidates near as much as they hated hillary.  trump supporters at the time o' the election hated hillary and Congress and the establishment, and mainstream republican candidates were part o' the establishment.  republican candidates weren't outmaneuvered so much as they were playing the wrong freaking game. 

 

trump hasn't had a plan... evar.  describes self as a counter-puncher and am thinking such is accurate.  trump responds as 'posed to plans. the thing is, the trump base is thorough invested. sure, fox news enables, but it is the trump base which reimagines every flaw and fumble as a success.  

 

hurl is seeing agency where there is none.  trump is possible 'cause middle and lower middle-class white americans is seeing trump as their guy. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/01/12/trump-loyalists-rush-to-defend-the-indefensible-and-get-left-holding-the-bag/?utm_term=.06c1d78df5f7

 

if there is agency from the wh, then perhaps melania is behind it all, 'cause Prez trump does little save react, and that is good enough for his base.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Katphood]

 

Why didn't previous presidents whine about fake news every day?

How many articles were comparing previouse presidents to Hitler?

George W. Bush

 

 

he's undergoing a systematic effort to change this country and make America more like the rest of the world.

 

Ah...americans, they always have to be on top. Because 'the rest of the world' can go die for all they care.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Katphood

[Agiel]

Satanic temple sparks uproar by unveiling statue of goat-headed, winged creature called Baphomet in Arkansas state capitol

 

I would have recommended getting Wolves in the Throne Room for the proceeding.

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by Agiel

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Let's dispel this fiction once and for all that Donald Trump doesn't know what he's doing. He knows exactly what he's doing; he's undergoing a systematic effort to change this country and make America more like the rest of the world.

 

Well if I'm elected we'll embrace what makes America the greatest country in the world.

[Katphood]

Trump said a lot of bad things, but so far he hasn't leveled a country to rubbles like John McCain and his terrorist croonies did:

 

https://youtu.be/A6tmfxaVRto

 

 

I remember how Syria used to be a holiday resort back in 2008. I had friends in Austria who visited the place and said how beautiful it was. So yeah, if you look at the numbers and statistics instead of the news, Trump is indeed much better than Obama, Bush or Bill. Now Trump can call me a rapist middle-eastern all he wants, I don't care so long as he isn't willing to start a war.

[HoonDing]

Trump is destroying Yemen though. Didn't he kill some children on his very first day?

[ShadySands]

If Bolton gets his way Iran will be next

[Katphood]

Trump is destroying Yemen though. Didn't he kill some children on his very first day?

That is Saudi Arabia and I'd say it would be my first pick as a strategic ally if I'd see some neighnouring country is constantly chanting 'Death to America'.

 

Our government(Iran) never slowed down in any of these activities one bit, with all the bonus Obama was handing over to every Muslim country, all our government did was send Afghan refugees directly to the line of fire in Syria(while promising their families small amounts of money, most of which they never get) to help some guy named Bashar Al-Assad because... yeah! We don't need that when our people are hungry over here.

 

I have enough money to get on with my life but for many others who don't, I think they would rather have our government not spend money in 4 different countries while it's own people are struggling to get food/medicine/rent etc.

 

Let me clarify, those countries are:

 

-Syria: tons of money spent helping the government of Assad

-Yemen: money and missles sent to houthi rebels

-Iraq: money spent on the shia militia and the government of Iraq which comfortably kicked our people out a few months ago...lol!

-Afghanistan: our government also supports the Taliban which beheaded about 10 of our diplomats in our own embassy in Kabul some 20 years ago...but now they are somehow an ally because they hate America I guess!

 

It is very sad and depressing, I am 34 years old and the islamic republic of Iran has been a torn in everyones arse since I can remember. Problem is though...NATO/U.S hasn't been any better in the past 15 years.

 

I think the human race is pretty much doomed...

[Gorth]

Usually Fox "News" is only good for a laugh, but in this case, the Danish politicians response to the rather uninformed (nicest way I can put it) person making some really weird claims about Denmark is more funny than the original video...

 

 

[Raithe]

[Guard Dog]

Seems like this get's dusted off for each new President. But it has never been more relevant:

 

 

He does not belong there. He couldn't have gotten there by himself. He does not know what to do now. No good comes of him being there. You wonder what idiot put him there.

[HoonDing]

Usually Fox "News" is only good for a laugh, but in this case, the Danish politicians response to the rather uninformed (nicest way I can put it) person making some really weird claims about Denmark is more funny than the original video...

 

Copenhagen is like living in a hellhole though.

[Malcador]

If Bolton gets his way Iran will be next

Sure hope not, that is going to be even worse than Iraq. Bolton seems like a typical hawk, at least reading his rationalization of trying to avoid the Vietnam draft makes me think so.

[Malcador]

Seems like this get's dusted off for each new President. But it has never been more relevant:

 

 

He does not belong there. He couldn't have gotten there by himself. He does not know what to do now. No good comes of him being there. You wonder what idiot put him there.

Obviously some one that failed the Voigt Kampff test

[Maedhros]

 

Usually Fox "News" is only good for a laugh, but in this case, the Danish politicians response to the rather uninformed (nicest way I can put it) person making some really weird claims about Denmark is more funny than the original video...

 

Copenhagen is like living in a hellhole though.

 

 

Wut? Copenhagen is great. Probably my favorite city in Europe. Didn't live there though, so perhaps you can elaborate? Was it perhaps the language?

 

[SonicMage117]

Fox News is worse than CNN or any other poitical driven news network? Lmao Okay. To me, they're all for nothing more than a good laugh but hell, this thread is a good laugh all in itself is it not? I'll answer for all of you. "YES."

[Zoraptor]

 

-Syria: tons of money spent helping the government of Assad

-Yemen: money and missles sent to houthi rebels

-Iraq: money spent on the shia militia and the government of Iraq which comfortably kicked our people out a few months ago...lol!

-Afghanistan: our government also supports the Taliban which beheaded about 10 of our diplomats in our own embassy in Kabul some 20 years ago...but now they are somehow an ally because they hate America I guess!

 

 

That's pretty overblown, in practice, though- most of those expenditures come out of existing (training) budgets though, as does Russia's contribution. Liwa Fatemeyoun- the Hazara Afghan 'mercenaries' for those not au fait with Syrian Civil War word soup- was not an expensive group to set up or maintain and the vast majority of effort has gone into training rather than fighting despite US/ Saudi claims to the contrary. Arms came from the enormous military stockpiles Syria and Yemen, and to an extent Iraq, already had and about the only arms to come allegedly from Iran were the missiles in Yemen (still a lot more likely to be Yemeni Army stocks though, even the Saudis aren't stupid enough to not be able to enforce a blockade on Yemen and if they were the US isn't), a few dozen T90 tanks plus some Toophan TOW knock offs. Even after 5/6 years of war and in a besieged enclave (Ayyash, Deir Ez Zor; two separate links) the Syrian government still had tens of tons of ammo and weapons, in storage, for example. There were one or two examples where Iran definitely spent a fair bit of cash like supplying Fuah/ Kefraya for 3 years, but that's about it. And there wasn't really an alternative there given the moderate head choppers surrounding those two towns and what would likely have happened if they fell.

 

That's also the first I've heard of Iran supporting the Taleban from anyone who isn't named Bolton/ Wolfowicz/ Rumsfeld. Everything I've seen suggests it's the standard since soviet invasion days- support an Ismail Khan or his equivalent in Herat and the shia minorities like the Hazara elsewhere. There's as much value supporting the Taleban in Afghanistan as supporting Al Qaeda in Yemen.

 

Iran's military expenditure is also one of the lowest per capita in the region, not one of the highest. Highly militarised region so it's only comparatively low, of course, but still.

[Katphood]

Well, they don't call us the biggest sponsor of terrorism in the world for nothing. I know, every smart man knows that the title is actually a whole lot more fitting for the U.S...

[smjjames]

In the past when there were all kinds of sheneinighans during the Cold War, probably. But now, no. Though as the world hegenemon, we get targeted anyway. Plus we've done things in the past two decades that haven't helped people in the MidEast view the US more favorably, and I'm not only talking about Israel (though that one is a much longer running issue)

 

If Russia steps up it's influence in the MidEeast, it might end up bringing the attention onto themselves rather than the US. Not that I wish it on them.

 

Also, doesn't Iran primarily rely on it's proxies (Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis, others) for it's influence abroad rather than expending it's military?

Edited August 19, 2018 by smjjames