Pathfinder Kingmaker is bigger then Deadfire

[Vaeliorin]

 

 

Otherwise my 18 Cha 10 Wis Feyspeaker wouldn't have been able to cast spells above level 0.  

 

le sigh.

 

harrim, with a 10 charisma, were able to level-up and gain new spells pre 1.06.  so apply your reasoning to pre 1.06 harrim and to what conclusion does you arrive? wisdom were indicated in level-up as the prime attribute o' a fey speaker, and a 10 charisma feyspeaker harrim aquired druid spells o' level two and three and beyond. am not saying charisma were useless to a feyspeaker pre-patch, but at the very least, pre-patch, wisdom were also effective for a feyspeaker... and as the actual in-game level-up indicated wisdom as the prime attribute...

 

a viable build concept, a build concept supported by in-game description, were rendered largely impotent by a patch.  kiss +12 hours o' gaming goodbye.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Ah, well I didn't realize that was the case.  I tried to make a wisdom-based Feyspeaker and the game told me I couldn't cast any spells, so I didn't realize that Harrim could, despite his charisma.  Perhaps it was a multi-classing bug?  Regardless, while the stat recommendation thing said wisdom, the descriptor for the ability to pick extra spells always said Charisma (which is how I realized they needed to be charisma-based.)

 

Regardless, I've kind of put the game on hold while they balance/bug-fix.  Was really annoyed my two-weapon fighting grenadier lost the bonuses from the feat as soon as I rested or leveled up anyone else.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Vaeliorin

[Gromnir]

My Sorcs have mostly been Elves with subclass that uses INT instead of CHA

our sorc choices is also the int-based option, but we choose human for the extra feat and skill.  sorcs do not get many skills, so the int-focused sorc + human skill bonus mitigates the pain o' going sorc.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Epaminondas]

Does anyone know what the different tiers offer?  It has Explorer, Noble, Royal, and Imperial and I can't really see the difference easily on steam and even going to dev page clicking on buy the game takes me to steam.  It's kind of maddening that it's not easier to see what's in each package.  Either that or I'm a little blind.

[Slotharingia]

Does anyone know what the different tiers offer?  It has Explorer, Noble, Royal, and Imperial and I can't really see the difference easily on steam and even going to dev page clicking on buy the game takes me to steam.  It's kind of maddening that it's not easier to see what's in each package.  Either that or I'm a little blind.

Scroll down.

 

http://prntscr.com/l3tnd1

[Epaminondas]

Ah, I missed the read more button.  Hmm, the only thing that really interests me is the extra content.  Depends on how much extra content before I throw down an extra... 50 bucks?  Nope, just looked.  $45.  Principle says don't do it, but the sucker in me is tempted.  Anyhow, thanks, Sloth.  I appreciate the heads up.

[Murp]

Thanks for the suggestions. Now all I have to do is wait until the game is playable.

[xzar_monty]

 

 

 

What? Never heard of anyone writing down any statistics in PnP.

Well in that case I tip my hat to your exquisite memory, good sir. No wonder you don't need any in-game helpers.

 

 

I do have a decent memory but it is far from exquisite. I believe this is more a question of playing style and general mentality.

 

It goes something like this. There is an underlying mechanism that is pretty much reducible to mathematics. In other words, there are certain constants and then there are variables affecting them. This stuff is better kept as much under the hood as possible, simply because it's more fun that way. The main exception that always happens is in a PnP battle: if an encounter against a single enemy lasts for a number of rounds, it is inevitable that the enemy AC gets mapped out. First, we find that 23 is not enough to hit. Then we find that 27 is. Eventually we find out that the AC is 25.

 

And of course we make assumptions and observations: if a fiery-looking salamanderish creature attacks us, we are not likely to rely on fire, and if we have cold available, we will use it.

 

But writing stats down and making lists of them sounds like turning a PnP session into a lesson in math, statistics and accounting. Fair enough, if that's what you like, but I don't see any attraction in that.

 

I've never heard of a DM allowing players to write down stats of enemies they encounter. As a player, I wouldn't even entertain the possibility. It would never occur to us to do that. And even if one of the players suggested it, our DM wouldn't allow it. As players, we're too busy roleplaying our characters and being involved in the story than to put on our statistician hat. It comes across as metagaming and something my or other players characters wouldn't do.

 

 

Yep. This discussion shows that there are apparently many ways to handle the whole PnP thing. Some of them appear very strange to me, but fair enough.

 

I agree with you in that I wouldn't even want to make write down any friggin' stats while I'm playing.

[xzar_monty]

 

Oh, nice.  Well, the game has enough interest that it's gone on 34 pages here.  I'm considering buying it, but I doubt I can go through 34 pages, but that there's even that much says that some people are playing and excited enough by what they see to discuss it at length.

 

Edit: Also, hard and unfair difficulties mean exactly that.

 

This, by the way, probably represents a fairly big cultural difference between North America and not North America. And there's no problem with that. This game was not created by North Americans. Being a European myself, I find the game's approach to "hard" and "unfair" perfectly rational. (I'm not playing on hard, much less unfair, but I appreciate the honesty in terms.)

 

A possible analogy here can be drawn between this and strength and/or acrobatics training, which is a field I know something about. Some very famous teachers have commented how, when they're in Europe, they can tell students that actually they don't know a particular trick yet, or that they really need to practice it more before nailing it. At the same time they have told that if they say in the United States, especially, that a student's efforts are anything less than great, that student is going to need extensive therapy to get over it. They cannot handle difficulty.

 

Note: I am not saying this. I haven't been teaching in North America. But this is something that teachers talk about.

Edited October 9, 2018 by xzar_monty

[Epaminondas]

I bought the game, but I only bought the basic edition.  I was tempted to buy in at the highest tier to support Avellone, but with all the stuff that went down when he left Black Isle, I decided to take a wait and see approach.  If I really like it, I'm sure I can get the other stuff with a littl bit more than if I'd bought it now but not such a huge difference.  Anyhow, I decided to buy another game that interests me:  Star Traders:  Frontiers.  Probably won't have time to play them too terribly much, but even a little gaming every now and then to relax will be good.

 

This, by the way, probably represents a fairly big cultural difference between North America and not North America. And there's no problem with that. This game was not created by North Americans. Being a European myself, I find the game's approach to "hard" and "unfair" perfectly rational. (I'm not playing on hard, much less unfair, but I appreciate the honesty in terms.)

 

Note: I am not saying this. I haven't been teaching in North America. But this is something that teachers talk about.

I'm a 'North American.' I don't take offense, but this is a pretty simplistic view of a complex dynamic. I know the vogue is to call us red neck 'Mericans lazy and fragile, but evidence indicates we're anything but. On the other hand, no harm no foul. I won't hold this post against you, although I'm on this board so rarely it probably shouldn't matter anyway.

 

Anyhow, as someone who grew up with maps that you either hand-wrote on paper or kept in your head, the mad rush for bragging rights isn't particularly bad, merely embarrassing as I see others take past the ridiculous, through the sublime, and into the divine.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Epaminondas

[Vitalis]

 

 

Well, since we are discussing builds, what is a good one for a Sorcerer? Is having Charisma 20 a good idea? What about being an Aasimar?

8/10 Str

14/16 DeX (depending on race)

12/14 Con

8/10 Int

10 Wis

18 Cha (Possible as Aasimar)

 

Magic Missile

Mage Armor

 

Magic missile would be your main damage for a level one spell. I dont recall which cantrip would be better, but until you get more casts you would need to cast those or more likely rely on your crossbow. Mage Armor can be cast once per rest usually, but may be unneeded.

 

Past that I don't recall which spells any second level would be of use.

 

I also dont recall the bloodlines offered in game, but generally avoid the ones that offer a melee buff like Draconic/Aberrant/Abyssal.

Thanks for the reply. That's what I was looking for.

 

But I'm watching this video and if you can turn into a giant dragon, I'm not so sure of what I want anymore...

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg7_Q1SFO84

 

 

 

Edit: somebody posted this in the comments.

 

 

 

A "third level dragon". Is it the player character?

 

 

I always go off what I remember from the tabletop, so its possible for a better build more tailored to the crpg.

 

I believe that one of the final powers for the Draconic bloodline allowed for a spell like ability that used the second level of the dragon form spell, but again I don't recall off hand.

 

In also not a fan of multi classing casters, full of half, simply because it misses out on spell progression.

 

 

 

Oh, nice. Well, the game has enough interest that it's gone on 34 pages here. I'm considering buying it, but I doubt I can go through 34 pages, but that there's even that much says that some people are playing and excited enough by what they see to discuss it at length.

Edit: Also, hard and unfair difficulties mean exactly that.

This, by the way, probably represents a fairly big cultural difference between North America and not North America. And there's no problem with that. This game was not created by North Americans. Being a European myself, I find the game's approach to "hard" and "unfair" perfectly rational. (I'm not playing on hard, much less unfair, but I appreciate the honesty in terms.)

 

A possible analogy here can be drawn between this and strength and/or acrobatics training, which is a field I know something about. Some very famous teachers have commented how, when they're in Europe, they can tell students that actually they don't know a particular trick yet, or that they really need to practice it more before nailing it. At the same time they have told that if they say in the United States, especially, that a student's efforts are anything less than great, that student is going to need extensive therapy to get over it. They cannot handle difficulty.

 

Note: I am not saying this. I haven't been teaching in North America. But this is something that teachers talk about.

It all stems from the self esteem movement, which itself stems from a report that highly successful people have high self esteem, so some people got it in their heads to make it so that children ALWAYS have high self esteem. Which of course leads to people getting awards for everything...etc.

 

It's too silly.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Vitalis

[Keyrock]

I'm glad I haven't picked this up yet (because my current lappy can't handle it and I'm almost never home to play it on my desktop). From all the talk I hear all over the internet of bugs, this sounds like the NWN2 launch. Hopefully by the time I get a new lappy the bugs will have been squashed.

[Manveru123]

I found a great way to handle the bugs. Especially late-game bugs.

 

I keep restarting the game because I'm undecided on what I want to play as the MC :D

[Chilloutman]

so my empire crumbled. I restarted as paladin/1lvlsorc/red dragon, lets see how this will go, I also lowered diff to normal, I dont like that artificial difficulty that much TBH

[Manveru123]

Oh hey, I remember a build like that was fantastic in NWN. I was thinking something along the lines of Pala 2/Sorc 4/RDD 4/EK 10, but I'm having some trouble balancing offensive stats with AC.

[Mamoulian War]

My first build will be the variation of my Halfling Fighter/Wizard/Eldritch Knight just for the LULZ. I am not big fan of min maxing in my games and I love to experiment with silly builds

 

All I need to do, is to find some time to play the game. To busy at my work currently, so still not purchased the game. My backlog is already as big as Sonic's hatred for nostalgia :'(

[Slotharingia]

This, by the way, probably represents a fairly big cultural difference between North America and not North America. And there's no problem with that. This game was not created by North Americans. Being a European myself, I find the game's approach to "hard" and "unfair" perfectly rational. (I'm not playing on hard, much less unfair, but I appreciate the honesty in terms.)

 

A possible analogy here can be drawn between this and strength and/or acrobatics training, which is a field I know something about. Some very famous teachers have commented how, when they're in Europe, they can tell students that actually they don't know a particular trick yet, or that they really need to practice it more before nailing it. At the same time they have told that if they say in the United States, especially, that a student's efforts are anything less than great, that student is going to need extensive therapy to get over it. They cannot handle difficulty.

 

Note: I am not saying this. I haven't been teaching in North America. But this is something that teachers talk about.

Not sure about that. I've played a fair amount of non US games and none of them had such a diverging concept of what "normal" is. imo it's more based on nostalgia for games from the 90's or early 2000's when gaming was more niche, than people getting prizes for showing up. Normal means what the majority of people do nowadays. There's also way more competition now and people spend less time repeating one game and trying to get their heads around its mechanics. So while I understand the concept of thinking people should learn about a game and that having your inventory chronically full of items you never use cos the game is designed to make them redundant on the normal setting etc is a bit naff, in this instance I think it's just a questionable marketing decision. Who cares what setting anyone else plays a single player game on? So insisting on taking all those filthy casuals down a peg or two by letting them know that they are noobs via a game difficulty setting seems a bit like shooting oneself in the foot xD OTOH PF:Kingmaker is gonna be way easier on normal for people who already know the system, so maybe that's where the concept stems from, but a lot of the PnP players still complain about it, so all in all I'm inclined to think they just should have called easy normal and been done with it. Not having story mode wouldn't really have been a problem since I don't think the game is actually playable for people who are completely clueless in spite of offereing story mode, auto kingdom and premade characters set to auto level up, at least at the moment, since it entails too many obscure mechanics.

[Manveru123]

Pretty sure Cuphead was made by an US studio

[Amentep]

 

there must be some memory leak in this game, after playing it for prolonged time my PC just goes into crawl mode :/

If I'm on the kingdom map and turn on location names, my FPS goes from 60+ to 20... What the hell? :/

 

I've never heard of a DM allowing players to write down stats of enemies they encounter. As a player, I wouldn't even entertain the possibility. It would never occur to us to do that. And even if one of the players suggested it, our DM wouldn't allow it. As players, we're too busy roleplaying our characters and being involved in the story than to put on our statistician hat. It comes across as metagaming and something my or other players characters wouldn't do.

If you are even remotely attentive during meets it is inevitable that you will learn almost all relevant stats, weaknesses and strengths of almost all monsters and adversaries in the game. Without writing them down.

 

 

We always played under the idea that you and your character couldn't act on information about the game mechanics and rules, only things that made sense in-game for the knowledge of a character.  So a monster might be "strong", not "19 STR".  And you could remember a monsters weakness to fire or frost, etc. from experience.  Or that slashing was more effective than piercing (but numbers wouldn't be involved).

 

That said everyone plays the games differently and the beauty of pen and paper is there is really no wrong way to play as long as everyone in the group is enjoying the game.

 

[IndiraLightfoot]

Indeed, and that's why I reckon BG1 and 2 were so successful, as they actually managed to make toom for various ways of playing D&D tabletop-like in a CRPG-format.

"D&D is an amazing experience full of imagination and adventure, but even in the world of limitless fantasy you're going to come across some tropes... even if the cliches are just your fellow players at the table:

 

1. 

 

 
 

2. 

 

3.

 
 

4.

 

 

5. 

 

6.

 

7.

Edited October 9, 2018 by IndiraLightfoot

[xzar_monty]

Ha! #3, the Dice-Cursed, is a classic. Funny how it always seems that 1) one of the players generally seems more dice-cursed than others, and 2) in any given session, a specific that-session-only dice-curse hits someone pretty hard.

 

In our current game, my fighter-rogue seems to roll disproportionately well when checking initiative. Obviously we realize that now that we've noticed this, our impression tends to strengthen itself, i.e. we notice every time I roll an excellent initiative check and ignore it when I don't. But still, this campaign has been going for about three years now, and I'm pretty sure my initiative rolls from that time are statistically better than they should be.

[Tale]

At my last session, my dice would never role higher than 10. Except when I started fighting my own party. Then I kicked ass.

[Mamoulian War]

I really do no know how are the odds for that, but in our long Serpent's Skull AP sessions, there was always the same guy cursed. He had Stryx Fighter tank character with crazy high AC, but he was almost all the time unconscious after getting HP below 0. At some point, I have even started to roll my GM rolls in front of him, and he still was getting most of the crits We also had the opposite in same group. A Witch with AC 12, who were more successful at tanking, my rolls against her were most of the time lower than 7, so she was hit almost exclusively by boss monsters, which had very high bonuses to attack :D

[IndiraLightfoot]

The random results of dice rolled are fun! Who knew?

Seriously, though, with a group of real peeps, this stuff almost makes the game. A fumble in that critical moment, or a natural 20 when nothing is at stake, like "I'll try whistling an old Orcish evergreen at the bar." 

[IndiraLightfoot]

Patch 1.07!

"Hello everyone (Warning! 5,4 GB!)

Please, be aware that there are plot spoilers in the descriptions below (in the Quest, Areas and Kingdom sections)!

• Quests
o "The Seed of Sorrow" quest didn't progress after the evil dialogue choice in the Capital Asylum. Resolution: fixed.
• Areas
o Several encounters had the wrong enemies at Oleg's Trading Post become infused with First World energies (last chapter state). Resolution: fixed. (This explains a few of the encounters I've experienced there!)
o Incorrect copies of Mim and Dragn NPCs could be found in the capital. Resolution: fixed.
o The encounter at Poacher’s Hideout could become unfinishable. Resolution: fixed.
o One of the cutscenes got stuck if Tristian was wounded and had zero Hit Points at Vordakai Tomb. Resolution: fixed.
o Trade with Dumra was not available during the "Deal with the Devil" quest. Resolution: fixed.
o Party couldn't move at Rill-and-Spill area. Resolution: fixed.
o Solo completion for the "Other World" area was not supported. Resolution: fixed.
• Items
o Some magical items could have issues with empty descriptions of their magical traits in the tooltips. Resolution: fixed.
• User Interfaces
o Days of the week could display incorrectly. Resolution: fixed.
o There was no direct way to check the build version. Resolution: the build version has been added to the Main Menu. (Finally!)
o The description for Enemy Difficulty settings didn't reveal all the mechanical elements altered by this option. Resolution: a more detailed description has been added for the Enemy Difficulty settings.
• Kingdom
o It was unclear and confusing that after defeating the main threat of the chapter, all of the kingdom events associated with that threat remained active. Resolution: after defeating the main threat of the chapter, all of the kingdom events associated with that threat are removed from the barony. In case there are too many of such events, the kingdom is considered damaged and its development is slowed down. This state can be removed with special new barony project.
o It was not always clear that some events can destroy the kingdom if not addressed. Resolution: a more detailed description added for the events that damage the kingdom and projects that remove these events.
• Classes
o Valerie's quest ability "Valorous" provided Strength and Constitution bonuses instead of Strength and Charisma. Resolution: "Valorous" ability provides Strength and Charisma, as per description.
o Metamagic rods didn't work for sorcerers. Resolution: fixed.
o Enemy Difficulty settings affected saving throws twice - the first time by increasing the enemy ability scores and the second time with a specific bonus to saving throws. Such implementation forced players to avoid spells with saving throws on the higher difficulties. Resolution: Saving throws are now affected by the Enemy Difficulty settings only once by increasing of base ability scores. (This also explains quite a bit for us playing against tougher baddies)
• Misc
o New pack of localization fixes.
• System
o Some players have persistent issues loading game saves that we were unable to reproduce so far. After analyzing possible threats that may cause this issue we implemented improvements that hopefully would fix the problem.
o Some players complained about being thrown out of the game and into the Main Menu while entering Throne Room (including the exit while trying to Rest at the capital). Resolution: fixed."

Edited October 9, 2018 by IndiraLightfoot

[Raithe]

So has anyone had any luck with the "Finding the Pathfinders" kingdom quest?

 

I've done the kingdom event related to it, "Tipping the Scales" but even if that succeeds, the Finding the Pathfinders fails. So I'm unsure if that's just a bug or something that I'm overlooking....