Backer Beta First Impressions

[Archaven]

 

I swapped the initial wizard with a Bleak Walker/Shattered Pillar and now the game is a lot easier. Offensive casting needs some tweaks. Casting times are too long when compared to the high melee attack speed and misses occur too often. Remember we start with lvl 6 characters, not lvl 1. Casting for 6 secs (wit the high risk of getting interrupted) and then missing all enemies is really bad. In 6 secs I sometimes kill 3 enemies with FoD + Lightning Strikes... Also Zealous Endurance as passive buff combined with thick armor feels very powerful. The numbers of the penetration system have to get tweaked. 30% is too low it seems. The powergamer in me combined high DR with DR buffs with a lot of healing and guess what happens.

Guys Boeroer is BACK and he’s making crazy builds again!!

 

 

In my opinion, the idea of multi-class is to make every combination equally fun. It shouldn't be confined to whichever build that "devs" love. Also, it seems that many of the impressions here were stuff got over-nerfed. Long casting times and recovery and the damage dealt isn't great. Why the big nerfs? In favor of balance, they did it wit over-nerfs and make game not fun anymore. Understand it still in beta but i don't want to wait half a year after the game released for them to get it "right" in terms of fun and replayability.

 

As for the penetration, before the beta many players including myself already foresee the issue about dealing 30% damage by just shortage of one point. It should be a percentage reduction based on the number of penetration vs. AR in my opinion.

 

Regarding injuries, are they all works the same -25% health? I like how it works in first PoE like bruised ribs, concussion, frostbite, severe burn, etc. Are they still in?

Edited November 18, 2017 by Archaven

[Katarack21]

 

• Attack Resolution. The removal of grazes from basic resolution was quite a surprise. I'd like to hear the reasoning behind this, besides the 'grazes were causing extra spam in the combat log'. But to tell is it good or is it a bad change, one will have to test it in practice.

The most convincing explanation I've heard was that grazes were underpowered with weapons and overpowered with CC--a graze with a mace is nothing, a grace with Paralyze is, after all, style paralyzed but just shorter.

[MaxQuest]

The most convincing explanation I've heard was that grazes were underpowered with weapons and overpowered with CC--a graze with a mace is nothing, a grace with Paralyze is, after all, style paralyzed but just shorter.

It depends how big was the damage coefficient. Deathblows + high might could often result in respectable damage even on graze.

And I'm probably not the only one remembering Alpine Dragon grazing on High Roll for more damage than critting on Low Roll.

 

Also I kinda liked that you could rise defenses in order to rule crits and most of regular hits off, and wear high DR which is most effective vs grazes.

At the same time, if someone was hitting way too hard, instead of DR you would rely on high Endurance or cc instead.

[theBalthazar]

I play the beta again and again and I add a point.

 

RELATION OF WEAPONS FOCUS AND PROFICIENCY :

 

+/- I like the idea to create a personnal choice when chose proficiency. But this concept has more potential.

 

Because when you disable this option for x reasons (its a modal very VERY equilibrate, not totally advantageous I mean)

 

Nothing left.

 

But... why not deal a bonus in accuracy with that ?

 

Like +4-5-6 accuracy ?

 

Now, only the barbarian have accurate with "weapon focus". Fighter are conceptually more accurate no ? : p

 

There is something evil in this concept. The idea is good but not the immediate feeling. Everything comes to...

 

No... Again that...

 

...Talents. : p

 

I throw an idea, who know :

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

ACTUAL SYSTEM 

 

3 Exemples

Fighter : Proficiency + Nothing.

Barbarian : Proficiency + Talent Weapon focus.

Wizard : Proficiency + Nothing

 

 

POSSIBLE SYSTEM

 

Fighter : Proficiency with 6 Accuracy + Talent Weapon focus 4 Accuracy (Extended to all classes that are legitimate to know the weapons well, Paladin, Barbarian, Fighter, Ranger etc, Physical class in short).

Barbarian : Proficiency with 6A + Talent Weapon focus 4A.

Wizard : Proficiency with 6A + Nothing. (Not weapon focus, it a magic class etc)

 

A possible mega combo with two physical class (multiclass) :

 

Double Weapon focus : = 4 x 2 = 8. Not crazy, seems legit. (Need 2 points to spend)

 

-------

 

Proficiency is more specific = highter number.

Weapon focus is general for all proficiency = smaller number. Reserve to physical class, and also two physical class for the combo.

 

This is just an idea. : p

Edited November 18, 2017 by theBalthazar

[Boeroer]

I agree with Gromnir's post in all except the point about universal talents.

 

Hold shift in the combat log is indeed a very good thing!

 

The bug with the 1-handed weapons recovery explains why casters and two handed guys felt so underpowered while my dual wielders attacked with nearly zero recovery in breastplate. I was already thinking "what the heck do I need Swift Strikes for?".

Edited November 18, 2017 by Boeroer

[AndreaColombo]

I love everything MaxQuest writes.

[theBalthazar]

Inspirations are a great concept.

 

There is a great potential.

 

Affliction / inspiration are globally less gamebreakers. There is a risk for the interrest of wizard debuffer or Druid C.C. for exemple, but I will wait the final game to judge.

 

A kind of russian doll. as said above, not easy to see what it contains for novices. BUT, this will help to differentiate the concepts effectively. Like direct bonus/malus (-10 in might without container) + the inspiration (Strong = container). Who should logically stack themselves.

 

Same concept as POE1, except there is a positive pendant at affliction ?

 

But, sometimes I don't understand why they don't stack each others with the priest for exemple. (Bug ?) Insightfull (L1 priest) + Aware. (L3 priest) I think it is no stack because of +5 perception.

 

But...What is the interrest of "russian dollize" and naming a "container" concept if they don't stack (like Maxquest said)

 

--------

 

EDIT ON REST :

 

Proposition : That would be cool if in the REST Menu, we could see the EMPOWER status.

Edited November 18, 2017 by theBalthazar

[TheC]

The new system is definitely growing on me. My first impression has risen quite a bit now that I understand more about the classes and combat mechanics.

 

Character creation is a blast. Multi-classing is a great addition to POE2. The different combinations can make for some unique and powerful characters indeed. I have had at least as much fun making characters as I have had playing the game lol.

 

The graphics are beautiful all around. The player models are gorgeous. The scenery is lush and vivid. The weather effects are nothing short of breathtaking. I give credit where credit is due... your art team knows their stuff.

 

Overall I love the game so far. You have made a lot of changes and I get a strong Tyranny feel coming through. Very strong actually.  Tyranny was a great game. But here is the thing...

POE > Tyranny. And not even close.

 

You struck gold with the POE combat mechanic. I mean it really shined. I cannot state this enough. I don't think you all at the Obsidian team understand just how great of a job you did in the creation of that game. It obviously had flaws, but as a whole, it shone so brightly as to blind the player to them.

 

I think we all, as die-hard POE fans, expected you to just smoothe out a few of those flaws while adding upgrades like graphics, abilities, the strides you have made with dialogue and storytelling, the vast improvements you also made with weapons, etc. Instead, you have given us nearly an entirely new game and it was honestly a mistake, because...

 

1. You will be hard-pressed to do better than a near perfect masterpiece.

2. You leave a raw, uncut diamond that was the old system collecting dust in a corner somewhere.

 

The game is great. I would rush to buy a game of this quality regardless, but it feels like I am beta testing Tyranny 2, not POE 2.

Edited November 18, 2017 by TheC

[Lamppost in Winter]

I've seen this come up a lot, and I'm curious as I've never played it; why do people say the beta feels like Tyranny? The whole talents kerfuffle aside.

[Ganrich]

I've seen this come up a lot, and I'm curious as I've never played it; why do people say the beta feels like Tyranny? The whole talents kerfuffle aside.

 

No idea.  The only thing that reminds me of Tyranny at all is the boots you find that let you hop across the battlefield which is a bit more actiony than typical PoE.  Otherwise IMHO the game feels like PoE. 

[Sedrefilos]

 

2. You leave a raw, uncut diamond that was the old system collecting dust in a corner somewhere.

 

 

This is what I am thinking while reading posts in the beta threads. As a non-beta tester and a big fan of the Pillars 1 system (by far the best system for party-based crpgs ever, imho) I'd like to ask the beta -testers:

In general, do you believe the new system is better, worse or just as good as the old, just doing things differently?

[supremeplatypus]

Character models are absolutely wonderful. Is it a possibility that you could do what Divinity Original Sin 2 has done and base portraits on the actual character model? It's hard to find a portrait that matches what your character looks like. 

[AndreaColombo]

In general, do you believe the new system is better, worse or just as good as the old, just doing things differently?

 

My overall impression so far is that the new system shows promise but is rough around the edges—unsurprisingly, being new and in alpha stage (Josh himself said the game's in alpha stage in the video for update 42, even though this is called a backer beta.) With some polish, it has the potential to be better than PoE.

 

Current priorities for me are more gradual armor rating vs. penetration system, and more oomph to spell casters (currently spells take too long to cast, are too easy to interrupt, and you generally have too few available.)

Edited November 18, 2017 by AndreaColombo

[morhilane]

More impressions.

 

I like the combat voices, especially the one where someone is coughing (on the Poko map with all the sand around, I just get the image of sand going in someone face...).

 

The map/boat travelling is growing on me. I can't wait for the random encounters though, right now it just feels like I'm trying to reach the "glowies" on a lots of the islands.

 

I like the Inspirations/Afflictions as a concept, but we really need that doc. I actually have no idea how to counter anything right now.

 

I loaded up a POE1 save I had, with a level 5 party. POE2 combat feels a lot more polished to me (pathfinding, animations, enemies using abilities, feedback, etc), but my POE1 party definitively kills stuff faster. I'm wondering if enemies shouldn't get a HP reduction to accommodate more misses. I don't really want to have to cast Aware on the party every fight or hording enchants just to go back to POE1 grazing and I do think missing more often slow down combat.

 

Also, Xaurip Champion using Flame of Devotion and Lay On Hand...that's kinda cool and weird, lol.

 

I've seen this come up a lot, and I'm curious as I've never played it; why do people say the beta feels like Tyranny? The whole talents kerfuffle aside.

I personally have no idea. POE2 feels like a more polished POE1 with you dying less fast and hitting enemies less often (because no more grazes by default).

[Starwars]

I wouldn't say it feels like Tyranny but it has moved in that direction a bit. Way more focus on per-encounter stuff, smaller party size, injuries being the long-term health resource. It's an easy point of reference.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Starwars

[theBalthazar]

Current priorities for me are more gradual armor rating vs. penetration system, and more oomph to spell casters (currently spells take too long to cast, are too easy to interrupt, and you generally have too few available.)

 

 

Yes. For spells casters, the "feeling"of not investing enough at each level (perhaps fake feel ?). This is a problem that is found throughout the game, AND specifically on spellcasters.

 

If we think to that, the problem come to the unification between abilities and talents. Because they have now the same ressource ?

 

But if spellcasters gain more talents, it is also interresting to can chose to take more spells than talents. This possibility is interresting and go in the direction of more flexibility, so I like it.

 

So, there is without no doubt a good solution to conciliate all the obedience.

Edited November 18, 2017 by theBalthazar

[morhilane]

I wouldn't say it feels like Tyranny but it has moved in that direction a bit. Way more focus on per-encounter stuff, smaller party size, injuries being the long-term health resource. It's an easy point of reference.

Knockout Injuries were already in POE1 3.0 (and they accrued fatigue which reduced health) which released 10 months before Tyranny.

 

Smaller party size was decided to reduce the cluster that was the combat but then they decided to make 10+ enemies encounters solving nothing...and Tyranny only had 4 party members, not 5.

 

Per-encounter change started in POE1 via patches, that was all before Tyranny was released.

 

 

It's more accurate to say that Tyranny felt like POE1...

[cheesevillain]

You struck gold with the POE combat mechanic. I mean it really shined. I cannot state this enough. I don't think you all at the Obsidian team understand just how great of a job you did in the creation of that game. It obviously had flaws, but as a whole, it shone so brightly as to blind the player to them.

 

I think we all, as die-hard POE fans, expected you to just smoothe out a few of those flaws

 

You leave a raw, uncut diamond that was the old system collecting dust in a corner somewhere.

 

The game is great. I would rush to buy a game of this quality regardless, but it feels like I am beta testing Tyranny 2, not POE 2.

 

 

Not all of us feel the same way. I already feel PoE2 is superior to the first one.

 

Did you actually play Tyranny? PoE2 is not similar to it at all. 

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

 

 

2. You leave a raw, uncut diamond that was the old system collecting dust in a corner somewhere.

 

 

This is what I am thinking while reading posts in the beta threads. As a non-beta tester and a big fan of the Pillars 1 system (by far the best system for party-based crpgs ever, imho) I'd like to ask the beta -testers:

In general, do you believe the new system is better, worse or just as good as the old, just doing things differently?

 

 

 

At the moment:

 

Potentially much much better.

 

The bones of the affliction and interrupt systems add a  great deal of tactical depth to the combat.

 

It still needs a lot of polishing, but this is a beta. Personally, I'd like to see, in approximate order of priority:

 

1) Some sort of generalized proficiency / "talent" pool return to add a different kind of depth to the character building.

 

2) tweaks to the casting times and effects for various powers -- lots of stuff seems like it's still not fully adapted to the new system but just using PoE 1 numbers

 

3) Armor penetration system is solidly structured but needs a lot of polish and balancing passes. At the moment I kinda preferred the old system but this new one isn't necessarily bad and I might just not be used to it yet.

 

4) Injury system needs tweaking so you aren't just resting constantly.

 

Overall the underlying system in place has a lot more potential but PoE 1 had a LOT of polish and refinement both before and after release and all that hasn't happened yet with this iteration. There are still some things they could get wrong and screw up but if they get the things right going forward that they need to this game will be excellent.

 

I'm not really sure where the comparisons with Tyranny come in.

Edited November 18, 2017 by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

[spartacus]

 

 

2. You leave a raw, uncut diamond that was the old system collecting dust in a corner somewhere.

 

 

This is what I am thinking while reading posts in the beta threads. As a non-beta tester and a big fan of the Pillars 1 system (by far the best system for party-based crpgs ever, imho) I'd like to ask the beta -testers:

In general, do you believe the new system is better, worse or just as good as the old, just doing things differently?

 

 

Personally, I think that it's just different. I think change is scary. For instance, coming from a background of the old IE games, there were several things about POE1 that I was really nervous about (such as health/endurance, etc), but those turned out really well.  In a similar sense, I was a little worried about the change from POE 1 --> 2. However, I have had a blast playing so far and I'm confident that the changes will turn out just as fun as POE 1.

[WOLFGEIST]

 

 

2. You leave a raw, uncut diamond that was the old system collecting dust in a corner somewhere.

 

 

This is what I am thinking while reading posts in the beta threads. As a non-beta tester and a big fan of the Pillars 1 system (by far the best system for party-based crpgs ever, imho) I'd like to ask the beta -testers:

In general, do you believe the new system is better, worse or just as good as the old, just doing things differently?

 

 

IMO I liked the combat and classes of PoE 1 better, BUT: 

 

- This is a very early version

- Multi classing has a lot of promise

[cheesevillain]

 

In general, do you believe the new system is better, worse or just as good as the old, just doing things differently?

 

 

 

I like this one better, even as I'm gnashing my teeth at the lack of grazing, pen/armor balance, etc.

 

The weapon proficiencies are REALLY COOL. They look pedestrian, but they play really well, and distinctly from each other. You can modify your character in several ways between and during encounters. It makes every weapon type useful in a different way. I'm not selling as single unique weapon in my future playthroughs of deadfire.

It's really satisfying to customize priests and druids now that you can, you know, actually customize their spell lists. The Wizard Grimoire change is really great.

The new subclasses, abilities and talents for monks give them so many excellent and varied build options.

Bombs, Traps, and stealth combat are really useful, and really fun.

Edited November 18, 2017 by cheesevillain

[JerekKruger]

Also, Xaurip Champion using Flame of Devotion and Lay On Hand...that's kinda cool and weird, lol.

 

They did that in PoE too.

[cheesevillain]

 

Also, Xaurip Champion using Flame of Devotion and Lay On Hand...that's kinda cool and weird, lol.

 

They did that in PoE too.

 

 

 

Apparently he's some part of some kind of Dragon themed paladin order that we don't have access to. "Grumble"

[fiddlesticks]

In general, do you believe the new system is better, worse or just as good as the old, just doing things differently?

 

Hard to say considering how buggy/unpolished a lot of stuff still is. Deadfire's system definitely feels less opaque though. Penetration vs. Armor Rating is much easier to calculate than Damage vs. DR and the lack of Grazes makes the combat log more readable.

 

 

 

Also, Xaurip Champion using Flame of Devotion and Lay On Hand...that's kinda cool and weird, lol.

 

They did that in PoE too.

 

They used Lay on Hands, but I don't recall them ever casting Flames of Devotion.