Multiclassing Update

[Enoch]

Another Sawyr Tumblr that touches on how the Deity-based bonus spells work, relative to specialist Wzards' opposed schools:

 

 

 

Let’s take the Priest of Wael and Conjurer.  At power level 1 (i.e. 1st level), Priests of Wael can select Arcane Veil as a priest spell.  Pretty cool.  At PL3 (5th level for single-classed, 7th for multiclass) they gain access to Mirrored Images.  At PL5 (9th for single-, 15th for multi) they gain access to Confusion, etc.

 

There are a few things to note:

1. Other than Arcane Veil at 1st level, all other abilities are accessed at a higher equivalent power level than they would be on the wizard list.  Mirrored Images is a 2nd level wizard spell and Confusion is a 4th level wizard spell.

2. Multiclass characters gain access to power levels more slowly than single-classed characters, so a single-classed pure wizard can take Mirrored Images at 3rd level, but your Priest of Wael/Conjurer Thaumaturge has to wait until 7th level.

 

So while it technically allows you to get access to the ability, there’s a hefty cost.

 

Somebody with a Tumblr login needs to ask the obvious follow-up to that "can select ... as a Priest spell" language:  Will Priests and Druids now need to use level-up resources to select each individual spell, rather than getting access to a whole spell level at once?  How restrictive are they planning on being here?  Will there be Grimoire-like class items for Priests & Druids to add more spellcasting flexibility?

Edited September 21, 2017 by Enoch

[Dr <3]

Moreover: i actually like the new mc system. The "old" system would have give players too much space to op builds.

Or to put it simply: since the most powerful abilities/spell for each class are reacheble from lvl 19, this would have been a strong incentive to pick at least 1 lvl in barb ( carnage)/ rogue ( sneak attack) or chiper ( soul whip).

I mean : is better to have a slight increase of power in your already powerful spells ( if they are significativelly related with your power source level) or to obtain carnage/ sneak attack / soul whip? For every kind of melee char could be a no brainer choice.

Now is much somoother. Or at least, if you want particuar skills/ abilities/ passives from another class you will lose the last 2 levels of your main one. Is fair.

[Osvir]

Transmuter/Berserker? Pick abilities and attributes that go well with.... Bruce Banner and The Hulk theme? xD Or Dr Jekhyl and Mr Hyde.

If you pick Transmuter, can you in some way also choose your Ogre appearance?

[Insidous]

 

All-in-all, [if on the levels that grant us +1 ability we are free to choose the ability from both classes we multiclass into; i.e. can keep taking abilities from class A only, without being forced into alternating selection] I am ok with the changes, as there is still plenty of room for build optimization.

 

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/165555197431/does-the-new-multiclassing-system-still-allow. This is a link posted in in another thread. It looks like you can pick from either talent tree you want when you level up. So if you want most talents from one class you can do that. So its not as ridged as AD&D.

 

It also looks like they have simplified the talent abilities. If i am reading this post right you can pick what POE 1 calls talents/abilities on any level up you want. So i can pick multiple spells on back to back levels or maybe multiple abilities on back to back levels. not sure but that is how this post reads

 

 

I wonder if we'll still get some common, non class specific talents in deadfire then. Sword and Shield style fighter only now? 

 

 

[draego]

 

 

All-in-all, [if on the levels that grant us +1 ability we are free to choose the ability from both classes we multiclass into; i.e. can keep taking abilities from class A only, without being forced into alternating selection] I am ok with the changes, as there is still plenty of room for build optimization.

 

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/165555197431/does-the-new-multiclassing-system-still-allow. This is a link posted in in another thread. It looks like you can pick from either talent tree you want when you level up. So if you want most talents from one class you can do that. So its not as ridged as AD&D.

 

It also looks like they have simplified the talent abilities. If i am reading this post right you can pick what POE 1 calls talents/abilities on any level up you want. So i can pick multiple spells on back to back levels or maybe multiple abilities on back to back levels. not sure but that is how this post reads

 

 

I wonder if we'll still get some common, non class specific talents in deadfire then. Sword and Shield style fighter only now? 

 

 

It looks like it. In the post above the character picks weapon and shield style which in POE 1 is not class specific. but ye we cant know for sure

[limaxophobiacq]

Do we know how chanting works with mutliclasses? Can you just use all the non-chanter class abilites and attacks while still chanting at full power, casting wizard or priest spells while as the same time chanting Dragon Trashed? That seems like it will make chanter multiclasses incredibly powerfull since you effectively dont have to choose between which class abilities you use at a time since the chanter class power is mostly passive.

[Gromnir]

Do we know how chanting works with mutliclasses? Can you just use all the non-chanter class abilites and attacks while still chanting at full power, casting wizard or priest spells while as the same time chanting Dragon Trashed? That seems like it will make chanter multiclasses incredibly powerfull since you effectively dont have to choose between which class abilities you use at a time since the chanter class power is mostly passive.

good question(s).  too bad you asked at obsidian.  got a sa account?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[prototype00]

Ghost Heart Lodge only has a pet that he can summon. So if you don't summon it you'll have no pet.

 

Novice's Suffering didn't work with Druid's natural weapons in PoE1 - on purpose. I don't think this will be different in Deadfire. However, an Ascetic (Shapeshifter/Shattered Pillar) can combine Natural DR + Iron Wheel and Wildstrike + Turning Wheel. With a Shattered Pillar it should be easy to reach your wound cap very quickly with the help of Wildstrike. If the boar still has wounding damage this will be great.

 

Also, Helwalker/Assassin seems to be a nice synergy with wound gaining.

Since the effective power levels of both Shapeshifting and Transcendent suffering will be lower, they might allow them to stack? (Also Bears doing Chuck Norris Kicks ala Torments's Reach)

 

In any event it's a question I posed directly to Josh's Tumblr page.

[PugPug]

I wanted to make a Bard build, but even with what we now know I am not sure how to go about it.

 

You would think Chanter first, but the subs:

 

Beckoner - Summoning invocations are cheaper and summon more creatures, but the creatures are weaker.

Skald - Offensive invocations are cheaper and melee crits grant phrases, but all other invocations are more expensive.

Troubadour - Phrase linger is 50% longer, Brisk Recitation as a modal that increases the rate of phrase elapses, but shortens linger. All invocations are more expensive.

Maybe Skald for melee synergy or tribby for the songs. Rogue for sneaky fighting? Rogue trickster gets some wizard illusion spells but reduced sneak attack. Druid for a mix of support and offensive magic? D&D1E bards were just fighter/druids after all, not that I need to go that old school.

 

Thoughts?

[prototype00]

I wanted to make a Bard build, but even with what we now know I am not sure how to go about it.

 

You would think Chanter first, but the subs:

 

 

Beckoner - Summoning invocations are cheaper and summon more creatures, but the creatures are weaker.

Skald - Offensive invocations are cheaper and melee crits grant phrases, but all other invocations are more expensive.

Troubadour - Phrase linger is 50% longer, Brisk Recitation as a modal that increases the rate of phrase elapses, but shortens linger. All invocations are more expensive.

Maybe Skald for melee synergy or tribby for the songs. Rogue for sneaky fighting? Rogue trickster gets some wizard illusion spells but reduced sneak attack. Druid for a mix of support and offensive magic? D&D1E bards were just fighter/druids after all, not that I need to go that old school.

 

Thoughts?

For the Druid combo, you probably won't even have to have your MC do it. The Amaua Companion Tekehu is a Chanter/Druid. So they can probably handle the Melee-Chanting. Edited September 22, 2017 by prototype00

[JerekKruger]

A few things I noticed whilst rewatching the update more carefully:

• Flagellants Path now does Burning damage rather than Crushing.
• At 2:07, when we see the Monk's abilities, Skyward Kick is next to what I assume is the Empower symbol, and is therefore a per encounter ability rather than an ability requiring wounds. This means that, at the moment, Stunning Blow is being changed to an ability requiring wounds making it a lot better than in Pillars.
• There's no sign of the Feign Death icon on the Rogue's ability tree, which for me is great as having one of the Rogue's highest level powers be the ability to pretend to be dead (regardless of how powerful it might have been) was disappointing.
• A third level of Wildstrike for Druids will no doubt be welcome.

[Karkarov]

I wanted to make a Bard build, but even with what we now know I am not sure how to go about it.

 

Troubadour - Phrase linger is 50% longer, Brisk Recitation as a modal that increases the rate of phrase elapses, but shortens linger. All invocations are more expensive.

Thoughts?

I got it.  You make a Troubadour chanter, single class, and their name is Cranberry.

 

You can thank me later.

[Insidous]

 

• At 2:07, when we see the Monk's abilities, Skyward Kick is next to what I assume is the Empower symbol, and is therefore a per encounter ability rather than an ability requiring wounds. This means that, at the moment, Stunning Blow is being changed to an ability requiring wounds making it a lot better than in Pillars.

 

 

 

Its weird but I think the red symbol is most likely the wounds icon and Skyward Kick apparently is the only ability from that list requiring wounds. The empower icon is the yellow star between the backpack icon and the class abilities icon, we have seen it in use in update 36 (the E3 video).

Swift Strikes costs (as seen in 1:56) 1 Mortification (the number under the orange monk abilities icon) and the other abilities use the same resource. Also why would a freshly created, rested full health monk have 3 (level 1) or 9 (max level) wounds but no per encounter spells left?

 

The resource system replaces per encounter for all classes, but I wonder why they have so many monk abilities use this instead of wounds 

[JerekKruger]

Its weird but I think the red symbol is most likely the wounds icon and Skyward Kick apparently is the only ability from that list requiring wounds. 

 

I find that unlikely. Both Swift Strikes and Flagellant's Path used Wounds in Pillars whereas Skyward Kick was per encounter.

 

The empower icon is the yellow star between the backpack icon and the class abilities icon, we have seen it in use in update 36 (the E3 video).

 

This is a good point. In which case I'd guess the red cross symbol is simply the "per encounter" symbol. It might even be a placeholder.

 

Swift Strikes costs (as seen in 1:56) 1 Mortification (the number under the orange monk abilities icon) and the other abilities use the same resource.

 

Hmm... that is odd. My initial though was "Mortification is a new name for Wounds", but the subclass descriptions from earlier in the video still mention Wounds. I'm still inclined to think that Mortification = Wounds and the fact that both are mentioned is simply down to this being a work-in-progress.

 

 Also why would a freshly created, rested full health monk have 3 (level 1) or 9 (max level) wounds but no per encounter spells left?

 

We don't know that they are freshly created. The character creation jumps several steps and clearly this character has been levelled several times (what with being a high level Monk/Wizard).

 

Also it could simply be that for testing/demonstration purposes it's useful to change the way wounds work, so that you don't have to spend time being hit to use your abilities.

 

The resource system replaces per encounter for all classes, but I wonder why they have so many monk abilities use this instead of wounds 

 

That's the main reason I suspect that the first category are Wound abilities and the second are per encounter. I might be wrong of course.

Edited September 22, 2017 by JerekKruger

[Enoch]

Do we know how chanting works with mutliclasses? Can you just use all the non-chanter class abilites and attacks while still chanting at full power, casting wizard or priest spells while as the same time chanting Dragon Trashed? That seems like it will make chanter multiclasses incredibly powerfull since you effectively dont have to choose between which class abilities you use at a time since the chanter class power is mostly passive.

A broader question regarding Chanters:  How do they level-up, given that their signature class feature breaks evenly into 2 abilities?  According to the level-up chart in the Update, a single-classed character is going to get 1 class ability per level.  So, will a 1st-level Chanter only have 1 Phrase, and no Invocations?  Seems quite limiting.  Further, when you unlock a new power level, will you have to choose between a new Phrase or a new Invocation?  Or can one general "Ability Point" be split between Phrases/Invoks? 

[PugPug]

 

I wanted to make a Bard build, but even with what we now know I am not sure how to go about it.

 

Troubadour - Phrase linger is 50% longer, Brisk Recitation as a modal that increases the rate of phrase elapses, but shortens linger. All invocations are more expensive.

Thoughts?

I got it.  You make a Troubadour chanter, single class, and their name is Cranberry.

 

You can thank me later.

 

 

Why Cranberry? Sorry to ruin the joke.

[Wormerine]

 

 

I wanted to make a Bard build, but even with what we now know I am not sure how to go about it.

 

Troubadour - Phrase linger is 50% longer, Brisk Recitation as a modal that increases the rate of phrase elapses, but shortens linger. All invocations are more expensive.

Thoughts?

I got it.  You make a Troubadour chanter, single class, and their name is Cranberry.

 

You can thank me later.

 

 

Why Cranberry? Sorry to ruin the joke.

 

[ShadySands]

Joke ruined below

 

 

 

 

 

I like Zombie better anyway... hey, Chanters can summon, right?

 

Edit - or whatever the Chanter/Cipher multiclass is so it can be all in your head

Edited September 22, 2017 by ShadySands

[draego]

 

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/165555197431/does-the-new-multiclassing-system-still-allow. This is a link posted in in another thread. It looks like you can pick from either talent tree you want when you level up. So if you want most talents from one class you can do that. So its not as ridged as AD&D.

Thanks for the link. So at least we are not hard-forced into alternating between classes.

 

It also looks like they have simplified the talent abilities. If i am reading this post right you can pick what POE 1 calls talents/abilities on any level up you want. So i can pick multiple spells on back to back levels or maybe multiple abilities on back to back levels. not sure but that is how this post reads

Yes, I also have noticed that Josh has included [Weapon & Shield Style] which is a talent, not an ability.

 

There is one thing that worries me in that post though: 1 spell slot equals 1 ability slot? If so, that's not good, not good at all.

In PoE1, on each odd level, fighter could select 1 ability, while priest and druid were learning 3-9 spells.

 

Not to mention that if a lvl 3 battlemage/warden/cleric would have to choose between taking knockdown vs a rank 2 spell... guess what he would choose. Provided that fighter abilities use resources from a common pool, while spells are limited to spell-usages per rank (conform to spell-progression table by power level).

 

 

Well... . So looks like there is no getting lots of spells on level up. All spells and abilities are treated the same. So super focuses builds i suppose. I am interested how they balance wizards having grimoires that can let them cast more than their selected spells. I wonder if other casters will get some stuff like that. I personally like this because i dont like casters that much they always seem to be op but this will be interesting.

Edited September 22, 2017 by draego

[PugPug]

 

Well... . So looks like there is no getting lots of spells on level up. All spells and abilities are treated the same. So super focuses builds i suppose. I am interested how they balance wizards having grimoires that can let them cast more than their selected spells. I wonder if other casters will get some stuff like that. I personally like this because i dont like casters that much the always seem to be op but this will be interesting.

 

 

Grimoires will let them cast spells they didn't learn on level-up, but they won't be able to change what spells are in a grimoire or learn spells from them. Spells learned on level-up will be castable without a grimoire.

 

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/165588054981/hi-josh-amazing-update-i-was-thinking-are

 

So it seems wizards will be more versatile than other casters, but no one will be able to cast everything.

[Sedrefilos]

Extra details:

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/165624262881/hi-josh-i-cant-remember-how-exactly-power-level

[MaxQuest]

So it seems wizards will be more versatile than other casters, but no one will be able to cast everything.

Seems like the game will incentivize respeccing.

 

 

Extra details:

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/165624262881/hi-josh-i-cant-remember-how-exactly-power-level

I hope cc-spells won't be useless on level 1 because of the very short duration.

[PugPug]

 

So it seems wizards will be more versatile than other casters, but no one will be able to cast everything.

Seems like the game will incentivize respeccing.

 

 

Extra details:

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/165624262881/hi-josh-i-cant-remember-how-exactly-power-level

I hope cc-spells won't be useless on level 1 because of the very short duration.

 

 

It won't be that short. I am sure the goal is for a multiclass character with 2 intellect to at least have them be more useful than an auto attack. Everything must be viable, and all.

[Karkarov]

Why Cranberry? Sorry to ruin the joke.

It's okay PugPug.  Your avatar is so cute, you know you got me wrapped around your finger.

 

(I can do this all day folks)

 

In all seriousness though, I am interested to see what can be done with some classic combos.  Like the Wizard/Priest, or the super tank Paladin/Fighter.  Or how about the DPS power of a Monk/Barbarian?

[PugPug]

 

Why Cranberry? Sorry to ruin the joke.

It's okay PugPug. Your avatar is so cute, you know you got me wrapped around your finger.

 

(I can do this all day folks)

 

Do you have to?