WTF is wrong with Obsidian?

kaiki · May 6, 2015

The only problem of obsidian is the apparently lack of any kind of mid-long term plans.

"Get Rich or Die Tryin'" I think that is the company motto and perpetual plan.

Nonek · May 6, 2015

The best laid plans...

Ten years in business, numerous best selling titles and staff whom are keen to rejoin the company, well that speaks for itself. Especially in the midst of an economic downturn, where numerous contracts were cancelled and desperate situations arose. Obsidian have survived where Titans have fallen, and sometimes a canny businessman has to play it by ear in a turbulent market.

Edit: This is not to say that i don't have valid criticisms of Poe, but they are minor and I feel that my purchase was all in all worthwhile. I cannot say the same for many AAA+ games I have purchased whose budgets dwarfed Jim Sterling's lunch bill!

Edited May 6, 2015 by Nonek

Hassat Hunter · May 9, 2015

The only problem of obsidian is the apparently lack of any kind of mid-long term plans.

How exactly does one long-term project what orders they might get from publishers...?

Not to mention several of said orders where terminated prematurely (Alien RPG for example) or the funders went down under (South Park).

luzarius · May 12, 2015

Hi! I'm a massive fan of Black Isle / Troika / Obsidian as well as a student majoring in Computer Science, a game hobbyist and an amateur game developer. (Disclaimer)

So, my question for today is a very profound one, and one that carries a lot of meaning to me, personally, and especially from a game developer studio perspective: What's wrong with Obsidian?

Everything starts with Black Isle and Fallout, which (if you're aware of the story around the production) was a general huge mother****ing mess. After Black Isle was shot down, the general messiness seemed to follow with Troika games, who made a couple of brilliant yet very flawed games. After that, the legacy, thanks to a few key individuals and their ideals, was transferred into what is today Obsidian.

Now, as a disclaimer, I have to say, I love everything created by these guys: Black Isle Studios, Troika and Obsidian. BI's slogan: "By gamers, for gamers" is still something I keep as an inspiration very close to my heart every single day (as an unknown amateur developer), and what they created is simply beautiful. However, everything created by this troupe and their derivatives has always been somehow fundamentally wrong: bugged as hell, imbalanced as foobar, illogical as hell.

My question is: WTF is wrong with Obsidian? Why can't they make solid products? I know there's a lot of tension between publisher - developer relations, that's always a handful and something for an entirely different discussion, but my presumption here today is that:

There is something wrong with the communication between the designers and the coders in Obsidian?

Because at many times it seems I'm playing a game with a beautifully designed world with lots of content and shreds of the designers souls visibly poured into every single detail, yet at other times I'm stumbling upon the very simplistic, childish even, mistakes that could be repaired with some simple programming with a little bit of forethought. Are you guys talking? Is there something between, even though this time (PoE) you were independently funded, and no publisher has a **** to say about yoru game? What's the problem?

Now, I'm not blaming anyone, I'm simply tryng to inquire some details about your methods into developing games, and whether there'd be something to improve. No doubt I'm going to get a generic response of "yes, we're constantly improving our methods and processes in all areas", but what I'm really interested in is the actual schizms between the programmers and the designers, since that's what I think is the main reason for this outcome.

Anyway, while any perspectives are welcome, obviously I'd rather take on some pov's from the crew.

Did you like POE?

Bryy · May 12, 2015

All they had to do with the memorial was review submission, type it in file, press "save" and double checking final results. I'm sure they totally could have solved 5-6 critical bugs in that time. Such a waste of their resources...

Not to mention the completely inane assumption that the person who worked on changing the limerick would have worked on fixing some other bug instead.

Wait, are people actually saying thi -

Of course they are.

The best laid plans...

Ten years in business, numerous best selling titles and staff whom are keen to rejoin the company, well that speaks for itself. Especially in the midst of an economic downturn, where numerous contracts were cancelled and desperate situations arose. Obsidian have survived where Titans have fallen, and sometimes a canny businessman has to play it by ear in a turbulent market.

Edit: This is not to say that i don't have valid criticisms of Poe, but they are minor and I feel that my purchase was all in all worthwhile. I cannot say the same for many AAA+ games I have purchased whose budgets dwarfed Jim Sterling's lunch bill!

Yeeeeeeah. Obsidian's been doing this forever. It's not like, say, a certain company up north from me that has been running on duct tape and chewing gum.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Bryy

Dadalama · May 12, 2015

It's brittle and, like flint, it's not easy to get a proper knife/arrowhead out of. It also has a fairly small effective length.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Dadalama

majestic · May 12, 2015

It's brittle and, like flint, it's not easy to get a proper knife/arrowhead out of. It also has a fairly small effective length.

But it's necessary in the fight against the Others. \o/

Hassat Hunter · May 12, 2015

Anyone else read that as 'the fight against the Otters'?

Those sly creatures.

redneckdevil · May 13, 2015

I hear a lot of times on forums that u can always expect an Obsidian game and a Bethesda game to be shipped with bugs. While obsidian maybe known for shipping games with bugs, lately they become a lot better at squashing them. I mean FONV was released very buggy, but unlike Bethesda games, by the time they get done with their patches the games are usually pretty solid. Like FONV by the time all the patches came through, it was more stable than oblivion and fallout 3, the game they took most of their stuff from.

They are overambitionist and cram as much as they can before it has to be released, thankfully they are getting a lot better with patching it later to a very stable game. Usually their gamble pays off as I was vastly amazed and impressed with FONV and SPsot.

rjshae · May 13, 2015

I hear a lot of times on forums that u can always expect an Obsidian game and a Bethesda game to be shipped with bugs.

I have received a game that was completely free of bugs. It was called chess. Apparently it's considered a classic now.

Gorth · May 13, 2015

I hear a lot of times on forums that u can always expect an Obsidian game and a Bethesda game to be shipped with bugs.

I have received a game that was completely free of bugs. It was called chess. Apparently it's considered a classic now.

Yeah, who said nobody plays turn based games anymore???

Humanoid · May 13, 2015

Chess is pretty buggy, there's a move you can do where you attack an empty space, but somehow your target gets hit anyway, I think it has some wonky hitbox detection.

majestic · May 13, 2015

Chess is pretty buggy, there's a move you can do where you attack an empty space, but somehow your target gets hit anyway, I think it has some wonky hitbox detection.

I heard they made that bug a feature called peasant or ampersand or something*. See, because calling bugs with French terms kind of gives them this neat aura of legitimacy and us common people don't even know what it is about. Bloody France.

* Disclaimer: I know it's called en passant.

Edited May 13, 2015 by majestic

Amentep · May 13, 2015

Chess is pretty buggy, there's a move you can do where you attack an empty space, but somehow your target gets hit anyway, I think it has some wonky hitbox detection.

I heard they made that bug a feature called peasant or ampersand or something*. See, because calling bugs with French terms kind of gives them this neat aura of legitimacy and us common people don't even know what it is about. Bloody France.

* Disclaimer: I know it's called en passant.

They wouldn't needed this rule if pawns had engagement and became sticky.

Nonek · May 13, 2015

Flashbacks to Betrayal at Krondor and discovering the En Passant move from the brothers at Sarth, so much nostalgia.

redneckdevil · May 13, 2015

I hear a lot of times on forums that u can always expect an Obsidian game and a Bethesda game to be shipped with bugs.

I have received a game that was completely free of bugs. It was called chess. Apparently it's considered a classic now.

Lucky you. I received a chess set from my grandpa and he had found it in the attic. Unfortuantly their were a few bugs in the game, but I got rid of them myself

Blindmanwalking · May 14, 2015

two days into the game, and my entire party is so fatigued, and yet, game refuses to allow party to rest. i mean really... who needs Camping supplies to lay on the ground and take a frigging nap to rest?

used priest spell to heal endurance. Nothing happened.

used potions, again, nothing happened.

if i cant rest my party, then they cant fight or defend themselves, and party is doomed to die.

boring ... and a waste of money to buy a game with these kinds of dumb bugs in it.

more bugs to be fixed Now!

ManifestedISO · May 14, 2015

For once, an entirely accurate handle.

Actually, no, not for once. A white sandy beach with a row of palms providing shade is pretty clever.

Aedelric · June 10, 2015

yet at other times I'm stumbling upon the very simplistic, childish even, mistakes that could be repaired with some simple programming with a little bit of forethought.

Can you give some examples of this? I am a bit confused as to what you mean.

People are allowed to rant, but without context and being constructive it makes it nearly impossible to address someones concerns. How is Obsidian meant to know how to fix it if you do not tell them what you find wrong?

majestic · June 10, 2015

Can you give some examples of this? I am a bit confused as to what you mean.

People are allowed to rant, but without context and being constructive it makes it nearly impossible to address someones concerns. How is Obsidian meant to know how to fix it if you do not tell them what you find wrong?

He can't. Just like every other computer science major who happend upon the forums in the past 15 years and complained about silly things not being fixed or parts missing that would have been oh so easy to create and would have made the game that much better. Being able to fix up some minor java program for your programming course at university simply gives one no perspective on how working a complex project really is and how easily a line of code is added and several seemingly unrelated modules broken in the weirdest way imaginable.

It's the lack of experience talking, doubly so when someone prefaces his post by listing his qualifications and actually lists currently studying computer science as a reason why what follows is a profund analysis and everyone better heed the conclusions.

To quote the ever awesome Tywin Lannister:

And any man who must say ‘I am the king’ is no true king at all.

-- Tywin Lannister, A Storm of Swords

But the poster's been called out on it repeatedly and has apparently left the thread almost two months ago, kept alive only by good-natured fun and some trolling by even more obnoxious characters. :biggrin:

pseudonymous · June 11, 2015