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Do we have any examples of large scale RPG developers that don't release buggy messes?  Larian is probably the closest that comes to mind.  

 

Blizzard.


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Do we have any examples of large scale RPG developers that don't release buggy messes?  Larian is probably the closest that comes to mind.

 

Blizzard.

 

You just can't connect on their server for week after they release the game and even if you can connect by some miracle there will be login issue that throws you back in line and start again connecting with the server. And after week you will find out that there is some issue in how some quest or ability is handled and there will be fix that will cancel most of your effort that you have been able to put in the game :|
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You just can't connect on their server for week after they release the game and even if you can connect by some miracle there will be login issue that throws you back in line and start again connecting with the server. And after week you will find out that there is some issue in how some quest or ability is handled and there will be fix that will cancel most of your effort that you have been able to put in the game :|

I know that's a problem but its not due to bugs, its due to so many people hammering their servers. I agree they should be prepared for that kind of thing on new product launches but the worst that's ever happened to me was waiting in server queue for a while.


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Hi! I'm a massive fan of Black Isle / Troika / Obsidian as well as a student majoring in Computer Science, a game hobbyist and an amateur game developer. (Disclaimer)

 

As a student and amateur game developer, you have no clue what it takes to ship a final product, simple as that.

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Hi! I'm a massive fan of Black Isle / Troika / Obsidian as well as a student majoring in Computer Science, a game hobbyist and an amateur game developer. (Disclaimer)

 

So, my question for today is a very profound one, and one that carries a lot of meaning to me, personally, and especially from a game developer studio perspective: What's wrong with Obsidian?

 

Everything starts with Black Isle and Fallout, which (if you're aware of the story around the production) was a general huge mother****ing mess. After Black Isle was shot down, the general messiness seemed to follow with Troika games, who made a couple of brilliant yet very flawed games. After that, the legacy, thanks to a few key individuals and their ideals, was transferred into what is today Obsidian.

 

Now, as a disclaimer, I have to say, I love everything created by these guys: Black Isle Studios, Troika and Obsidian. BI's slogan: "By gamers, for gamers" is still something I keep as an inspiration very close to my heart every single day (as an unknown amateur developer), and what they created is simply beautiful. However, everything created by this troupe and their derivatives has always been somehow fundamentally wrong: bugged as hell, imbalanced as foobar, illogical as hell.

 

My question is: WTF is wrong with Obsidian? Why can't they make solid products? I know there's a lot of tension between publisher - developer relations, that's always a handful and something for an entirely different discussion, but my presumption here today is that:

There is something wrong with the communication between the designers and the coders in Obsidian?

 

Because at many times it seems I'm playing a game with a beautifully designed world with lots of content and shreds of the designers souls visibly poured into every single detail, yet at other times I'm stumbling upon the very simplistic, childish even, mistakes that could be repaired with some simple programming with a little bit of forethought. Are you guys talking? Is there something between, even though this time (PoE) you were independently funded, and no publisher has a **** to say about yoru game? What's the problem?

 

Now, I'm not blaming anyone, I'm simply tryng to inquire some details about your methods into developing games, and whether there'd be something to improve. No doubt I'm going to get a generic response of "yes, we're constantly improving our methods and processes in all areas", but what I'm really interested in is the actual schizms between the programmers and the designers, since that's what I think is the main reason for this outcome.

 

Anyway, while any perspectives are welcome, obviously I'd rather take on some pov's from the crew.

 

You came to the wrong city.. This forum is 80% bleeding hearts that will defend almost every decision Obsidian makes. I think Obsidian is still one of the best companies in the industry right now for making games that aren't complete ****.. however I still fire up my old Black isle games and play them to death.. I couldn't even get past the prologue of Dungeon Seige 3.. it was horrible.

 

South Park was really well done.. but it's like 15 hours long.

 

 

 

 

Do we have any examples of large scale RPG developers that don't release buggy messes?  Larian is probably the closest that comes to mind.  

 

Blizzard.

 

 

Blizzard has a notorious amount of bugs in their flag ship product (WoW).. However I will mostly agree that they do pretty extensive testing of their products, however they have a massive following of dedicated fans that will play the same content for 6 months and continiously report bugs.

 

Obsidian has Sensuki..

Edited by Immortalis

From George Ziets @ http://new.spring.me/#!/user/GZiets/timeline/responses

Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat. While this does put more emphasis on solving quests, the lack of rewards for killing creatures makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game) as much as I can.

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Well it's quite brittle and prone to shattering, though this produces sharp edges that may be used in a similar manner to flint, so whether this is "wrong" may be arguable.

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Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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You came to the wrong city.. This forum is 80% bleeding hearts that will defend almost every decision Obsidian makes.

Aka Obsidrones :D :p:)


"There once was a loon that twitter


Before he went down the ****ter


In its demise he wasn't missed


Because there were bugs to be fixed."


~ Kaine


 


 


 

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You came to the wrong city.. This forum is 80% bleeding hearts that will defend almost every decision Obsidian makes.

Aka Obsidrones :D :p:)

 

 

Heh, we usually go by Obsidianites.  :p

 

But yeah, why else would we hang out on the forum if we weren't big fans of Obsidian?  Some of us have been here for over a decade.

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Do we have any examples of large scale RPG developers that don't release buggy messes?  Larian is probably the closest that comes to mind.  

There is none.

 

After reading all off it, i can only say that the OP has no idea what he is talking about. You "study this"? Good luck in the markt out there because with your attitude you will be buried. Or maybe you are good at ass kissing then go to EA :D No i´m really serious.

 

QA? Do you have any idea what kind of QA team it needs to get through a game like this? PoE has some problems, not much i might say. Otherwise Obisidian games are the norm in the industry, you release and fix the **** you couldn´t or haven´t seen. Sure exceptions are there..like kotor2...which was hardly their fault, and which is STILL considered a great game and had a dedicated modding communinty fixing it because they ****ing loved the game.

 

Students, work a year in this industry or anything releated to it, i´m not even a game designer but spent probably more time with them than you did (IT and NW Tech) and you will see it differently, Game designer sounds always so nice, i wanted to be one, lol, i have a ****ing game in my mind completly flashed out, but why should i work as one when i can make twice and more money than they do? Not mention the rest..

 

man you have no idea..

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"A reader lives a thousand lives before he dies, the man who never reads lives one."

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You came to the wrong city.. This forum is 80% bleeding hearts that will defend almost every decision Obsidian makes.

Aka Obsidrones :D tongue.pngoriginal.gif

 

Heh, we usually go by Obsidianites. tongue.png

 

But yeah, why else would we hang out on the forum if we weren't big fans of Obsidian? Some of us have been here for over a decade.

 

There's a difference between a fan and a fanboy (drone). The latter destroys the audience criteria even though both equally love their games.

Edited by Luj1

"There once was a loon that twitter


Before he went down the ****ter


In its demise he wasn't missed


Because there were bugs to be fixed."


~ Kaine


 


 


 

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You came to the wrong city.. This forum is 80% bleeding hearts that will defend almost every decision Obsidian makes.

Aka Obsidrones :D tongue.pngoriginal.gif

 

Heh, we usually go by Obsidianites. tongue.png

 

But yeah, why else would we hang out on the forum if we weren't big fans of Obsidian? Some of us have been here for over a decade.

 

There's a difference between a fan and a fanboy (drone). The latter destroys the audience criteria even though both equally love their games.

 

 

But which one gets the shinier badge?

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You came to the wrong city.. This forum is 80% bleeding hearts that will defend almost every decision Obsidian makes.

Aka Obsidrones :D tongue.pngoriginal.gif

 

Heh, we usually go by Obsidianites. tongue.png

 

But yeah, why else would we hang out on the forum if we weren't big fans of Obsidian? Some of us have been here for over a decade.

 

There's a difference between a fan and a fanboy (drone). The latter destroys the audience criteria even though both equally love their games.

 

 

But which one gets the shinier badge?

 

 

Doesn't matter. The real fan is that who'll always find something to complain. That keeps the developers going forward.


"There once was a loon that twitter


Before he went down the ****ter


In its demise he wasn't missed


Because there were bugs to be fixed."


~ Kaine


 


 


 

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Wait just a second there. Obsidian raised how much, 4 Million dollars? Up front? And had plenty of time to do it. And has some of the most brilliant minds in the industry like Tim Cain, Feargus Uruqheart, Chris Avellone?? Get real.

I didn't know those 3 could code.

 

Wait, they can't, that's not their area.

 

Also, "4 million1!!!!11one!!!", yeah compared to the avarage 50 or so million of AAA+ games.

 

Get real indeed...

 

:banghead:

 

(Luj1 is making me miss a "dislike" button :()

Edited by Hassat Hunter
  • Like 1

^

 

 

I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5.

 

TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam

Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee

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Wait, what? They said that thay didn't took a dime from Paradox. Are you saying that was another lie? Obsidian look worse and worse every day now.

Good thing on blaming Obsidian on a members post than their own words... way to go, not anything up with that at all.

 

1M per month is the funds for an avarage AAA+ game. Obviously, with it's 4M budget and development time, this is not the case for PoE. 1M per month may still be true, but not all of that is towards PoE, rather than developing other games along the line. You know, like every dev does.

But I'm sure "THEY LIE! RAWR" is much more reasonable than 1M being used per month creating several games along side each other. Right?

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^

 

 

I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5.

 

TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam

Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee

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Doesn't matter. The real fan is that who'll always find something to complain. That keeps the developers going forward.

 

 

Eh, they are just video games.  I play them to have fun, not to generate a laundry list of complaints.  I must not be a real fan.   ;(

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Do we have any examples of large scale RPG developers that don't release buggy messes?  Larian is probably the closest that comes to mind.  

You must have not played Original Sin at release...

 

EDIT (not in response to Hurlshot):

Anyone else getting tired of the forum being flooded by so called "programmers" who know better but then show they have no actual know-how of game development at all.

Arm-chair generals, or people just making **** up so they have some authoriaty posture even if a simpleton can poke that full of holes within 1 page, if not the same post?

Edited by Hassat Hunter

^

 

 

I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5.

 

TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam

Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee

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Doesn't matter. The real fan is that who'll always find something to complain. That keeps the developers going forward.

Ah, reminds me of my 2 mod projects.

 

One was a online text RPG where users gave me a lot of flak and complained about every new bit of content I released.

The other was TSLRCM, for which there is a lot of praise, I get people thanking me for my devotion and the feedback given may be harsh sometimes but generally always fair.

 

Now guess which of the 2 I abandoned working on...

  • Like 3

^

 

 

I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5.

 

TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam

Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee

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Also, "4 million1!!!!11one!!!", yeah compared to the avarage 50 or so million of AAA+ games.

 

There are video game budgets as high as 300$ million, so what. Most of the time those are trash. Far better games have been made 15 or 20 years ago, with low funds, laughable staff count, and faulty game engines. Anyone with half a brain would know that. If you're guided by passion four million is a lot. Otherwise even 500$ million won't do you any good. Considering its budget PoE feels sub-par.

Edited by Luj1

"There once was a loon that twitter


Before he went down the ****ter


In its demise he wasn't missed


Because there were bugs to be fixed."


~ Kaine


 


 


 

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Do we have any examples of large scale RPG developers that don't release buggy messes?  Larian is probably the closest that comes to mind.

There is none.

 

 

Blizzard.


"There once was a loon that twitter


Before he went down the ****ter


In its demise he wasn't missed


Because there were bugs to be fixed."


~ Kaine


 


 


 

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Now guess which of the 2 I abandoned working on...

Giving up on the harder of the two speaks about yourself. In either case bad analogy is bad.

Edited by Luj1

"There once was a loon that twitter


Before he went down the ****ter


In its demise he wasn't missed


Because there were bugs to be fixed."


~ Kaine


 


 


 

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Blizzard is basically the only game developer in the entire world that can afford to bugtest and balance for 2 years.

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So there were a few bugs at release. Patches are coming. Same as any other game.

 

The game will ultimately be judged by how stable it is after a few weeks have passed.

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Also, "4 million1!!!!11one!!!", yeah compared to the avarage 50 or so million of AAA+ games.

 

There are video game budgets as high as 300$ million, so what. Most of the time those are trash. Far better games have been made 15 or 20 years ago, with low funds, laughable staff count, and faulty game engines. Anyone with half a brain would know that. If you're guided by passion four million is a lot. Otherwise even 500$ million won't do you any good. Considering its budget PoE feels sub-par.

 

 

I must have missed the class that teaches how enough passion will pay the bills. Damn you Finnish school system, you have failed me yet again.

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Hate the living, love the dead.

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I like how the OP apparently knows exactly what a 4 million RPG is meant to be like, so that he can judge POE based on it. 

 

Tell you what, I - and a number of other posters here - know fairly well what kind of budgets, team sizes, engine choices and development schedules RPGs have had over the years. Why don't you back up your seemingly randomly careening statements with something that's below the clouds?

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