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As long as the standard "no-arrow" actually can hit most things,- I'm not worried.

If archery become largely useless near the end, I'll be furious.

 

At least make sure talents can compensate later on, if that's the case.

Edited by Gorionsson

"The harder the world, the fiercer the honour."

Weapon master,- Flail of the dead horse +5.

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I don't know a reason why the arrows aren't in the game. Even we didn't run out of arrows in original IE games well now could be time to improve that. What about that there aren't millions of arrows lying around in every corner. What if you could carry ten or twenty arrows with you and decide when you use your bow and when you will save your arrows?

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I don't know a reason why the arrows aren't in the game. Even we didn't run out of arrows in original IE games well now could be time to improve that. What about that there aren't millions of arrows lying around in every corner. What if you could carry ten or twenty arrows with you and decide when you use your bow and when you will save your arrows?

 

You make a valid point haffu.  If you make a scarcity of arrows a real thing...then there might be some value/strategy/entertainment in itemising them.

 

However, if arrows are plentiful and you always have enough, then not having to micro-manage them in your inventory is probably a good thing.

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Restricting people to carrying a realistic number of arrows would be nonsense in a system where every enemy requires a very unrealistic number of arrows to take down.

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Ranged char and Archer in BG2 with 10 types of arrows to choose from was a cool char to play. A bit like Garrett from Thief.

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I think the best solution would be to put arrows and bullets (gunpowder) to be encounter(or rest?) based to easily solve all these problems. Give some tactical importance since no one has unlimited arrows with them, then you might have to start thinking of sacrificing an important inventory slot for an extra quiver if you think you want to be more prepared for long ranged battles.

 

With encounter limited arrow quantity, you also get more realistic feel, since you can think that your party fills the quivers between battles.

 

Or alternatively use per rest limit, where the party will forage arrows during camping while wizards memorize spells and what not.

 

With these approaches you could also have  more special/magical quivers that greatly decrease/eliminate the limit. This could also give ranged weapons some other new tactical differences by number of projectiles you can use per rest. If for example the devs think that guns need to be balanced more, they could go about it by giving them very limited amount of uses per encounter (say for instance due to gunpowder pouch limitation) they would have an easier new way to implement these things. While they would still be encounter/rest tied, they wouldn't make them tedious for the user.

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Kinda surprised they didn't include ammo at all.

I think the reason is because having ammo promotes having different types of ammo which goes against the inventory design of the game. Not having ammo solves this issue.

Some people have no patience at all and have trouble keeping a clean grid inventory it seems  :devil:. I always found that inventory management broke up the pace of adventuring nicely - just like "going back to town" in Diablo 1 & 2 - which I can't believe they were even thinking of removing from the game at some point.

 

What has game design come to.

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As much as I completly understand the decision why they removed basic arrows I agree that it does not feel good.

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As an I.E. guy I would most definitely prefer to have arrows/bolts. Feels like an unnecessary "streamlining" of the game without them.

When developers completely remove inventory (ME2) or severely reduce it's functionality (SRR) or remove armor slots (DA2) - those are examples of unnecessary streamlining.

 

But I honestly can't recall any game where inventory management was fun. It's a necessary evil but why make it any more boring than it has to be? Limited ammo makes sense in a survival horror game. In a CRPG it's unnecessary.

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Aaaarggh!!

 

:banghead:

 

"I want to make an epic "IE-like" game. But with new rules! The IE fans will love it"

"Heheheheh. Yeah I'm in. Then we can change some of the stuff that we don't like"

Yeah, I've got a list here, let me see...: 

 ...Let's start with making the Elves shorter and uglier than humans"

"...And the GUI must be at the buttom, at all costs... "

"We remove the ammo, never liked that!" 

"I hate Romances",

"Personally I hate Kill-XP..."

"Yeah"

"The list is only 23 pages..."

"Uhh, can we add something Godlike? And make it more MMO'ish?"

 

:banghead:

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UFWDJRj.jpg

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But I honestly can't recall any game where inventory management was fun. It's a necessary evil but why make it any more boring than it has to be? Limited ammo makes sense in a survival horror game. In a CRPG it's unnecessary.

 

Its a tactical dession, you have X quickslots to use stuff instantly or use time using them from your backpack (inventory). A good cRPG gives you enough space to sort your inventory because you easily lost track of those 13434 potions, 213123 scrolls and 3213 magic items. My main problem with the current inventory is the lack of space and pages in the stash. No room for sorting things.

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 ...Let's start with making the Elves shorter and uglier than humans"

 

This is the best thing they ever did. Those perfect übermensch treehuggers get seriously on my nerves. Its also closer to the scandinavian origin.

Edited by Mayama
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Aaaarggh!!

 

:banghead:

 

"I want to make an epic "IE-like" game. But with new rules! The IE fans will love it"

"Heheheheh. Yeah I'm in. Then we can change some of the stuff that we don't like"

Yeah, I've got a list here, let me see...: 

 ...Let's start with making the Elves shorter and uglier than humans"

"...And the GUI must be at the buttom, at all costs... "

"We remove the ammo, never liked that!" 

"I hate Romances",

"Personally I hate Kill-XP..."

"Yeah"

"The list is only 23 pages..."

"Uhh, can we add something Godlike? And make it more MMO'ish?"

 

:banghead:

The problem with making a spiritual successor game is that you can never please the fans of the original.

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Its a tactical dession

Would be if bows could work without arrows. But they can't and there's nothing to decide. :)

 

Annoyances don't make a game more hardcore. They make it more annoying.

Edited by prodigydancer
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I too enjoy the inventory "mini game" probably because I enjoy playing at a more relaxed pace - I'm in no big hurry to get to the next major thingamabob - oooh look mushrooms - and so I'm finding the lack of ammo unsettling as well - 

 

I suspect adding several types of firearms may have had something to do with this decision now we need bullets and powder and other whatchamajigs to make them work properly and the whole ammo construction job became just too cumbersome and the resources needed for it could be utilized better elsewhere. 

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Nomadic Wayfarer of the Obsidian Order


 

Not all those that wander are lost...

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Arrows would be very nice to have in - as someone stated earlier, they were a large part of the BG experience, and one of my favourite parts as well. Having arrows would not really mess up the inventory if there were (non-infinite, of course) arrow bags/quivers to store them in - just as well as potion and scroll bags. In fact, you could have different quivers with different bonuses or penalties, and equip that quiver with all your arrows in it. With a shortcut on the UI, this would enable you to quickly change what arrows to use - without messing up the current inventory (which is, as I see it, a little messy at the moment). There is no sense in removing arrows if resource management is a crucial centerpiece of the game, and arrows are too a crucial part of mechanics as well as roleplaying. I didn't find it tedious (in the IE games) having to manage or be watchful over my ranged character's arrows, it made me more keen to develop efficient ways to take down enemies, rather than just pump them full of infinite arrows.

Edited by Ztirual

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Unless they greatly increase the stacks and low cost of arrows ( unlike BG that any arrow user had his entire inventory full of arrows at all times )

It does Not really bother me.

^This.

 

Normally I'd prefer that all non-magical launchers incur ammunition costs/upkeep, but because they designed a system where only 8 inventory slots per character are accessible except for when you're about to go to bed, then no. Lets keep them ammo free.

Edited by Stun

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I think the only way normal arrow stacks would work would be if they did a different inventory system. With the current one, it just doesn't make sense.

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"but other things like dialogue and combat are more complicated comparing to Baldurs Gate and IWD."

 

True, true.


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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Yeah, lack of special ammo is definitely a loss of gameplay variety.

 

Some people have no patience at all and have trouble keeping a clean grid inventory it seems  :devil:. I always found that inventory management broke up the pace of adventuring nicely - just like "going back to town" in Diablo 1 & 2 - which I can't believe they were even thinking of removing from the game at some point.

 

What has game design come to.

 

"Games are a series of interesting decisions" (Sid Meier) -- This can't be quoted enough.

 

I have all the patience in the world to play hardcore RPGs. I finished all of the early Wizardries and Bard's Tales and Might and Magics (the latter two twice) with no save game option while adventuring, I dealt with diseases, hunger, and fatigue in the Realms of Arkania series,  I dealt with dehydration in JSawyer's Fallout: NV mod, even learned Twitcher 2's combat system enough so that I can play on Dark difficulty (currently in Act 1), even though I suck at action games.

 

But putting items from here to there because of silly limitations (i. e. one character's inventory slots are filled, even though it's carrying capacity is not exhausted, etc.) doesn't constitute meaningful gameplay for me. It is neither a challenge that I want to overcome, nor a world that I want to immerse myself in (the two main gameplay aspects of RPGs). It's monkey business, it doesn't engage my brain. It's like working at a conveyor belt, which I actually did when I was a student and still remember how mind-numbing it was. The interesting decisions (who gets this Ring of Protection?) form only a small part of inventory management, and THAT part is still present and intact in PoE.

 

The whole notion that putting items from here to there is some kind of glorious old-school activity that is being dumped to appeal to the casual masses is laughable to me. I suggest you join the Royal Society for Putting Things of Top of Other Things. Imagine the fun they have at their weekly meetings!

 

Edited by Endrosz
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The Seven Blunders/Roots of Violence: Wealth without work. Pleasure without conscience. Knowledge without character. Commerce without morality. Science without humanity. Worship without sacrifice. Politics without principle. (Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi)

 

Let's Play the Pools Saga (SSI Gold Box Classics)

Pillows of Enamored Warfare -- The Zen of Nodding

 

 

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IMO while having the possibility to choose different arrows is great, I think we would be better off with a 'dematerialised' arrow system, where you can buy arrows but they would not show up in the inventory. 

 

You could just, for instance, right click on your bow and select which arrow it will fire. 

 

Inventory space seems very limited in PoE, I don't think it's wise to waste it with arrow space.

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