Piracy or not?

[Elerond]

I think that if my salary was only $600 or even less in month, like average salaries in some eastern Europe countries are, I would probably think much harder where I put $5 than I currently do.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Elerond

[Gromnir]

I think that if my salary was only $600 or even less in month, like average salaries in some eastern Europe countries are, I would probably think much harder where I put $5 than I currently do.

the odd thing is, there is places that is even more poor in the world and piracy is not similarly excused as it is in eastern europe and south-east asia. is... odd. different cultures embrace notions that some activities is understandably illegal even if there ain't anything morally wrong with the activity itself. prostitution is an example. infidelity, on the other hand, is frequent viewed as immoral, but many countries/cultures where infidelity is accepted as immoral don't accept that it should be criminalized. is all very curious.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Bartimaeus]

I would think that that's because a legal punishment isn't required nor appropriate, (in the case of infidelity). 

Edited May 30, 2014 by Bartimaeus

[Sarex]

When the transfer is done, does 2 copies exist or one? If only one you didn't act as an unauthorized publisher, did you? If the transfer is interrupted halfway through does 1.5 copies exist or 1? If only 1 you didn't act as an unauthorized publisher, did you?

 

When you are transferring a file there are going to be 2 copies. Following your strict rules, that makes you a pirate.

[Amentep]

 

When the transfer is done, does 2 copies exist or one? If only one you didn't act as an unauthorized publisher, did you? If the transfer is interrupted halfway through does 1.5 copies exist or 1? If only 1 you didn't act as an unauthorized publisher, did you?

 

When you are transferring a file there are going to be 2 copies. Following your strict rules, that makes you a pirate.

 

I'm not asking about "when you are transferring a file", I'm asking "When the transfer is done". If, at the end of that there are two copies and unless the activity is provided for by the EULA of the ebook (or equivalent) or applicable rules about making back up copies for personal use, then you have assumed the publishing role with respect to the second copy in so much as you have created and distributed a presumably* work under copyright.

 

Whether this is (or should be) legally actionable is a secondary point.

 

While the transfer of files is going on, and incomplete copy may exist in some secondary state, but unless this copy were not deleted upon completion of the file transfer, I'd suspect it'd be irrelevant to discussion. Hence why I'm stressing completion.

 

*I say presumably because this would be obviously moot for things that were legally in the public domain

[Sarex]

I'm not asking about "when you are transferring a file", I'm asking "When the transfer is done". If, at the end of that there are two copies and unless the activity is provided for by the EULA of the ebook (or equivalent) or applicable rules about making back up copies for personal use, then you have assumed the publishing role with respect to the second copy in so much as you have created and distributed a presumably* work under copyright.

 

Whether this is (or should be) legally actionable is a secondary point.

 

While the transfer of files is going on, and incomplete copy may exist in some secondary state, but unless this copy were not deleted upon completion of the file transfer, I'd suspect it'd be irrelevant to discussion. Hence why I'm stressing completion.

 

*I say presumably because this would be obviously moot for things that were legally in the public domain

 

Ah but now you are deciding what is and isn't irrelevant, you can't have it both ways.

 

When you copy a file there will exist 2 copies until you delete one, when you move a file there will exist two copies until the computer deletes the original upon the completion of the copy.

 

The only simple way to get around this would be to give your friend your ebook reader with the book as loan.

 

Spirit vs the letter of the law...

[Amentep]

 

I'm not asking about "when you are transferring a file", I'm asking "When the transfer is done". If, at the end of that there are two copies and unless the activity is provided for by the EULA of the ebook (or equivalent) or applicable rules about making back up copies for personal use, then you have assumed the publishing role with respect to the second copy in so much as you have created and distributed a presumably* work under copyright.

 

Whether this is (or should be) legally actionable is a secondary point.

 

While the transfer of files is going on, and incomplete copy may exist in some secondary state, but unless this copy were not deleted upon completion of the file transfer, I'd suspect it'd be irrelevant to discussion. Hence why I'm stressing completion.

 

*I say presumably because this would be obviously moot for things that were legally in the public domain

 

Ah but now you are deciding what is and isn't irrelevant, you can't have it both ways.

 

When you copy a file there will exist 2 copies until you delete one, when you move a file there will exist two copies until the computer deletes the original upon the completion of the copy.

 

The only simple way to get around this would be to give your friend your ebook reader with the book as loan.

 

Spirit vs the letter of the law...

 

"there will exist 2 copies until you delete one" implies post transfer, which is what I was asking and fits into the scenario outlined for "When the transfer is done". When the transfer is done, if 2 copies exist (your original and the one you made) and it is not covered in the EULA or making backups for yourself where allowed, you have violated the copyright by making copies.

 

What I said was irrelevant was a temporary file created during the transfer that cannot exist on its own as the copied work (ie is not a true copy, but a file that exists to facilitate the transfer and may contain part/all of the document but which is deleted after the transfer is done).

Edited May 30, 2014 by Amentep

[Sarex]

But that is not how file transfer works. You always make copies, it's just that when you chose to use the move function the computer automatically deletes the original file once the copy is finished. The difference between you giving your friends copies and then them deleting them after reading and moving the ebook to their computer is the time it takes for other copies to be deleted. To further explain if you chose to use the move function, the copy you moved from will be deleted almost instantly, where as if you give out a copy to your friend to read, the file will be deleted after he has finished reading it. The difference between those two is just the measurement of time between deletion. Also files are never truly deleted until you format them or overwrite the place they occupied on the hard-drive plate with another file.

 

This is why I said letter vs. spirit. If we follow the letter of the law things would need to get really complex for you to lend a digital file with copy-write protection. The sad thing is that companies are pushing the law and tech in a direction where even sharing is forbidden. Games now days are pretty hard to share with friends.

[ShadySands]

[Gfted1]

 

I love how it goes to credits right after the second facepalm.

[Sarex]

Wait, so I'm Data. Cool.

[Malcador]

For the OP -  if everyone buys in, I don't see a problem.

[Tale]

The entire spirit is about ensuring that creators are compensated for their contribution to the public through a limited monopoly. The limitations being a series of safety valves to ensure the predominance of the public good in the spread of ideas and information. And it's a complex balance between the two that has shifted over time. In our case, it seems to have largely shifted away from public good over to creator incentive.

 

But that too, the ability to change with time, is also the spirit of the law. Even if I personally object.

 

None of this supports the notion that a guy, thinking some work he could nonetheless afford is too expensive, should be able to acquire it at the price of his choosing. Heck, the traditional safety valves are all about things like resale, use, and scope. Not price.

[Bester]

I watch porn every day. It's all supposed to be under copyright protection, but it's out in the open on tons of porn sites. Am I infringing the law everyday?

 

I mean who pays for porn, for god's sake.

 

I also sometimes stare at girl's butts on the streets, but I don't pay them anything.

 

This world is so tough... authors are being robbed of their fortunes every second.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Bester

[BruceVC]

I watch porn every day. It's all supposed to be under copyright protection, but it's out in the open on tons of porn sites. Am I infringing the law everyday?

 

I mean who pays for porn, for god's sake.

 

I also sometimes stare at girl's butts on the streets, but I don't pay them anything.

 

This world is so tough... authors are being robbed of their fortunes every second.

 

Bester I don't think you are taking the scourge of Pirating seriously  It seems like you are justifying it ......

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Bester, if you're going to get four other people to throw in $1 each to buy an ebook, then copy/pirate it and then use porn on the internet to justify it, you're not going to win any supporters on a game developers forum.

 

Personally, the waste of time in collecting $1 from four other people is a bit laughable.

[Bester]

 

I watch porn every day. It's all supposed to be under copyright protection, but it's out in the open on tons of porn sites. Am I infringing the law everyday?

 

I mean who pays for porn, for god's sake.

 

I also sometimes stare at girl's butts on the streets, but I don't pay them anything.

 

This world is so tough... authors are being robbed of their fortunes every second.

 

Bester I don't think you are taking the scourge of Pirating seriously  It seems like you are justifying it ......

 

 

My wife is a Unity developer and while she sells her stuff on Asset Store, she also uploads all her products (to which she holds all rights) on torrents because it's just how we are. You'd never understand.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Bester

[Humanoid]

I watch porn every day. It's all supposed to be under copyright protection, but it's out in the open on tons of porn sites. Am I infringing the law everyday?

 

I mean who pays for porn, for god's sake.

 

The Misty Beethoven "Kickstarter" was well worth backing. :D

 

(It wasn't on Kickstarter per se because of their rules, but still fully crowdfunded)

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Bester. If you want to pirate, pirate. If you want to buy it, buy it. Both doesn't affect me personally. What other people do is up to them. What I do find odd is you coming onto a game developer forum and trying to justify what you're proposing is okay. I would hazard a guess there's a lot of people on these forums who pirate in one form or another (eg. TV Shows), but you don't see them justifying it. They just do it.

[Bester]

Such butthurt. Are you one of these girls I stare at? Want some money?

Edited May 31, 2014 by Bester

[Bryy]

 

I also sometimes stare at girl's butts on the streets, but I don't pay them anything.

... 

 

1) I don't really see how that in any way is applicable to anything.

2) That's insanely creepy and way to bring this thread into a whole new level of weird.

 

You'd never understand.

Hey guys watch out, we've got a badass over here.

 

Are you one of these girls I stare at? Want some money?

....

 

....

 

Seriously?

[Fionavar]

OT: At this point - at least - no more creepy knowing a green scaly dragon is watching this thread from an imagined Roost that feels real ...
 
Note #1: Yes this is an attempt to use humour to ensure derailment doesn't occur ...

FL0SD.ObE

Note #2: OBS has a zero tolerance for piracy intellectual gymnastics ...

[exodiark]

Funny thing is, In developing countries where you only make $200 per month, I say piracy is actually beneficial for a publisher, since they won't be able to pay $60 for a single game anyway, but you'll have their customer loyalty so they can buy your stuffs when they have money later on. Granted, there are also jerks who aren't paying a single dime even when they're rich.

This is the reason why Microsoft Windows' mind share is very huge in China and other Asian countries.

Anyway, to address OP's question:
Hard to say, check the copyright policy to determine whether it's copyright infringement or not. Every commercial books should have one.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Such butthurt. Are you one of these girls I stare at? Want some money?

 

Funny that you should ask someone else if they want some money when you can't be bothered to pay for the ebook yourself.

[Mor]

Funny thing is, In developing countries where you only make $200 per month, I say piracy is actually beneficial for a publisher, since they won't be able to pay $60 for a single game anyway, but you'll have their customer loyalty so they can buy your stuffs when they have money later on. Granted, there are also jerks who aren't paying a single dime even when they're rich.

 

This is the reason why Microsoft Windows' mind share is very huge in China and other Asian countries.

 

Anyway, to address OP's question:

Hard to say, check the copyright policy to determine whether it's copyright infringement or not. Every commercial books should have one.

Since its gaming forume, i'd cover games. IMO the above is part of the problem, getting stuff free stealing is so easy on the internet, that to some people the idea if paying seem odd, and subsequently spend time justifying why they should be able allowed to continue do as they do.

 

Fact is that there is little that can be done about it, so as far as I am concerned there are two types of people, those who do it quietly (many who kids who hopefully one day get a job and start putting money back) and douchebags who brag about it and try to convince others that they are anything but douchebags.