Jump to content
  • Sign Up


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by Mor

  1. That's an excellent question, the explanation is probably got to do around the lack of space and the number of Palestinians who would need shelter, but I am just guessing here. Also there doesn't seem much general concern to the Palestinians from Hamas. I have said this before but Hamas uses civilian casualties to gain international sympathy and support for there political objectives The brave defenders of Gaza has shelters, bunkers and tunnels, on top of using their civilians to that effect. As for Palestinians population in Gaza, I am not sure why would they need bomb shelters (certainly not in the west bank). Unlike Israelis who due to the circumstances have to build bomb shelters into each apartment, overall Palestinians biggest fear is that Hamas would decide to use their property or set camp near by, and then having a bomb shelter would likely make them a prime target for Hamas operatives. Also you are most certainly correct about Hamas tactics, involving PR campaign using civilian and civilian casualties to further their military and political objectives. Or in short:"Israel is using missile defense system to protect its citizens and Hamas is using its citizens to protect its missiles."
  2. Today, any face of Hamas is of Nationalistic, Islamic fundamentalists, whose manifesto advocates the destruction of the state of Israel under the banner of god. Despite Hamas (and various apologists) attempts to re-brand them as taking a political path, unlike the Fatah they have rejected calls by the international community to forsake violence, and engage in peace process. For the past seven years they led to escalated radicalization and Islamiztion of Gaza, showed no intent to compromise\cooperate with "moderate" Palestinian authority in the West Bank or Israel. Who instead working to increase their military capabilities, using aid money to Gaza for their war build up, and instating new rounds of violence with Israel, committing war crimes against Israel (and their own). It's difficult to say why people do not out right reject Hamas, in their tactics lending support to the moderates. Whether it they are consumed by hatred, blind "liberalism"(its bit rant-y, but it get the point across) that worked magic in the middle east so far, especially after the Arab spring; Misconception about Israel (like); taken by sensualized media images; or deciding that it is easier/quicker to accomplish peace industrial quite by bend over the liberal moderate Israel, while feeding them the 'be the bigger man' routine, than working with the uncompromising Palestinians radicals. ------------ On related note, couple of news tidbits: Europe - The 'Gaza generation' seems worried about Arab deaths only when Jews are involved If one were primarily concerned about Palestinian children - whose deaths are indeed an abomination - one would demand that Hamas operatives leave the hospital basements where they have buried their command centers, move the rocket launchers that they have installed in the doorways of UN schools, and stop threatening parents who wish to evacuate their homes when an Israeli leaflet informs them that a strike is imminent. Bluntly anti-Semitic slogans have marred most European demonstrations "in support of the people of Gaza." Residents of Frankfurt and Dortmund were horrified in mid-July to see neo-Nazi groups join hands with Islamists in a grim chant: "Hamas, Hamas, Jews to the gas." The center of London was blocked on July 19 by thousands who gathered in front of the Israeli embassy in Kensington to shout their hatred for Jews. How Europe's Good Intentions Harm Gaza The war between Hamas and Israel can in part be blamed on the massive and unaccountable aid Europeans have poured into the Palestinian territories. The EU and its member states continue to channel millions annually to both Hamas-controlled Gaza and the West Bank, without responsible supervision, transparency or oversight. The miles of concrete-lined strategic tunneling under houses, schools and hospitals are estimated to have cost €1 billion, which wouldn't have been available without European aid.
  3. It is obvious that you are consumed by hate, one of those people who cry "women and children" are dying into the camera, for dramatic effect not because they care. p.s. I don't suppose that I will get an answer to who? Wtf are you talking about?
  4. You also noticed the "Banking cartel's thumb" it reminded me of Sarex rants. Although usually when I think of a 'conspiracy nuts', I imagine people who spend too much time in their head, deriving pleasure at the pursuit of explanations for the same body of facts. However, i'd argue that popularity of some conspiracies has nothing todo with looking for explanations, but about angry\envious people looking for convenient lies or scapegoat for their troubles... Btw Sarex was from Dinar using country. --- As for the vote. Considering that the UN General Assembly voting blocks and their voting pattern are well known facts. Any vote in GA is auto pass, any investigation starts with presumption of guilt, which used for political ramming and or tying their hands. If you unfamiliar with the blocks such as NAM or OIC (Organization of Islamic Cooperation) weight etc, I advise you to see this vid I posted on the other page or you can use this quick (rough) summary at wikipidea: Which is not surprising, considering how many of UN human\civil rights committees are handled by the biggest perptrators of such violations, who use their position to steer any criticism from themselves for their continued "cooperation", while ramming their political rivals. Which should also explain USA voting policy.
  5. It is nice to have an imagination. As for Hamas use of civilian population for military purposes, it isn't limited to actual human shields, even though on several occasions Hamas said to preventing people from being vacated from the warned areas to force Israel to abort attacks. Hamas tactic is deliberately calculated to exploit civilian population, to shield their command centers, weapons storage, rocket launchers, etc. Knowing all to well that if they use mosques, schools, hospitals (ambulances as taxis etc) placing their citizens in danger, TrashMan will not call them Nazis. Meanwhile they gain protection to their assets or capitalize on the dead as ammunition for their PR campaign, so they can spin it, cynically accuse Israel at placing civilians at Harms way. EDIT: Btw, 10 Percent of Hamas Rockets Misfired, Landed in Gaza (link), wanna bet that that any of those were sold as Israeli attacks? Also Hamas is commonly using plain clothed fighters, take away his gun(assuming that he has one) and instead of combatant we get an innocent by stander. In another time a certain General said that the "object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his" As for your post it is hard for me to see it as anything but armchair general-ing. It seem that you agree that every Hamas rocket fired at Israel cities is blunt war crime, and that Israel is obligated to defend its citizens (not abandoning). However I am not sure how you addressed the main question I the post you quoted i.e. "what in your opinion an appropriate Israel reaction should have been.." Are you implying that instead of airstrikes Israel should use its ground force every time Hamas or any other terror group under its rule fires a rocket at Israel (which would mean to re-occupy Gaza, going back to the situation before Gaza elected Hamas) or that you want to see Israel loose more soldiers so that you can call it proportional?! Surely you are aware that the goal of wars is winning (within the rules of law), not prolonged suffering, the asymetrical nature of this war and Hamas disregard to losses (its or civilian), so it would be interesting to hear how your characterize the required\appropriate military action that would lead to successful military conflict termination in this case. I specifically posed that question, because its always easy to get on high horse and rant about what you don't like, its much harder to provide a solution. (which is what every cheesy politician does). Also while wars are despicable 'I don't like it' =/= 'war crimes', and going by some of the posters here its more often than not it seem that 'war crimes' defined by political agenda.
  6. Yes. Yes I can. Who ? Funny, with all that talk of power and peace victory, it sounds exactly like you cheer for Hamas, with "the end justify the means" twist.
  7. Bigotry is the view of other people based on prejudices (I'd say that some the comments here certainly fall in that category). As for high expectations, you still haven't answered the question I posed to you, concerning your standards for Israel actions i.e. Can you show me any actor in the history of warfare that done more than Israel in that regard? (or even close) IMO it important not to lose perspective, to avoid become emotional tool by media "hype" machine. Concerning high expectations, lets consider Israel's Arab neighbors, surely you are aware of their history and recent developments, but as horrific as they are(and not even remotely resemble anything in Israel), for some reason they do not get as much public outrage in the west as Israels actions. So riddle me this, do you hold Israel to a higher standard than its Arab neighbors or excuse the disproportionate reaction because its Israel. Isn't that kinda by definition racism or bigotry? Also speaking views based on prejudices, which might lead to disproportionate reaction (I hope that the "genocide" thingy was an extreme hyperbole, otherwise that person is a retard) I'd throw in this in to the mix for little context:
  8. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qeHvd8Tdmo only a talk show, but pretty much score on all accounts (although the kid is annoying. He is not wrong, but he is trying too hard). "tldr" version, quick summery of some of the points mentioned: * Israel is using missile defense system to protect its citizens and Hamas is using its citizens to protect its missiles. * Israel is victim of soft bigotry of high expectations. * The goal is peace. Fighting endless wars is tragedy for both sides. * Palestinians made very bad choices of their own leaders. * Palestinians seem like professional refugees.
  9. In short, Hamas actions are intentional war crimes, while your nitpicked Israeli reactions are at best unintentional mistakes. I doubt that your are antiwar in general*, thus unless you can show me any actor in the history of warfare than done more than Israel in this regard, i'll have to dismiss this as nothing but the opinion of clueless online armchair general, or someone who let their bias wall in the facts in blunt double standard. * since i don't recall you vehemently arguing against military action in any other similar conflict\operations that took place over the global including several other that take time at this very moment. Also You still haven't answered what in your opinion an appropriate Israel reaction should have been to Hamas raining rockets on their civilians. Surely you don't think that Hamas hold the moral high ground here, that Israel must protect Palestinian civilians at the cost of abandoning her own, or that anyone but Hamas is to blame for its tactics, that use civilian population/infrastructure for military purpose, as shields.
  10. Concerning the later, you are either misinformed or use incorrect terminology. If indeed Israel was indiscriminately (or deliberately) targeting any Palestinian civilians (including children) it would have been a war crime. Here are the fact. The law of war requires that parties distinguish between military and civilian targets, forbidding indiscriminate or deliberate attacks of civilian targets. 1. Hamas rockets are indiscriminate by nature, which they use to target Israeli cities populated by hundreds of thousands of civilians(lately bragging they shoot for TelAviv) - its a straightforward war crime. 2. Hamas use its civilian population for military purposes (i.e. residential buildings, schoolyards, mosques and hospitals are used as shields for their arms storage, lunching pads, HQ's and military operations) - While its not a war crime per se, they they place their civilians in danger, making them lawful targets for military operations. I recently read\heard an apt comparison: Israel use their rockets to defend their civilians, while Hamas use their civilians to defends their rockets. 3. Israel only targets military, they use precision weapons as well as extensive surveillance. Additionally they employ a warning systems to combat Hamas tactics and minimize civilian casualties. So despite news media extravaganza ( unfortunately sensualized pictures over sell reason every time ) I can't think of any army in history of warfare that went into such great length to avoid civilian casualties as much as Israel e.g. In comparison Russian in Chechnya, wasn't to kin on precision, or phone-calls warning, as they leveled the place.
  11. Its called spinology in action. Hamas trying to justify initiating this yet another round of violence in Gaza and its tactics**. This whole situation with Hamas, started after their take over of Gaza and break away from Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. Followed their refusal to honor their Peace agreements, renounce violence and recognize their partners, which is something that the international community called a bare minimum for any prospect of negotiations and any chance of peace and coexistence in the region. Since then practicing the "Democracy of the Guns" for the last seven years, using those tactics. So while I am sympathetic to the Palestinian cause of self determination to establish a country in the West Banks and Gaza, I have no qualms about Hamas and its terror routine, its actions and policies not only set a Gaza blaze time after time, but build walls of divide and hatred among the two people that no paper will be able to bridge. ** the indiscriminate targeting of Israel's civilian population centers, while at the same time its deliberate use of its own civilians as human shields.
  12. I imagine it's because those countries don't want to get sucked into conflict with Israel. It's not their cause. Egypt is cracking down on militant Islam (the Muslim brotherhood). Jordan is still ruled by a king. There are tunnels on those borders too though and a black economy. Jordan has no shared border with the West Bank.. As for Egypt: since Hamas took over Gaza strip turning the first strip of Palestinian land that was granted freedom ( by Israel good faith gesture ) into stronghold of totalitarianism, Egypt were lax in their duties to secure their border with Gaza (not wanting to appear cooperating too much with Israel in the eye of their public), which allowed Hamas to flourish for years from smuggling, however the recent events In Egypt bread unrest and fierce anti-Islamist sentiment, which promoted its anti insurgency operation in adjacent Sinai** and Gaza Islamist groups has been seen as a threat. Which is why Egypt has been actively working against Hamas smuggling operations which weakened Hamas. Other than that neither as I said before Egypt nor Jordan has "blockaded" Gaza Strip or West Bank, although they do restrict imports such as arms, inline with international agreements (signed by the Palestinian Authority) and supervision. For that matter Israel never "blockaded" its own land crossing, only unsupervised sea access which Hamas thought to exploit to smuggle weapons, and even then everything were redirected through Egypt or Israel land crossings. In fact I bet that even now as Hamas rains rockets on Israel, Israel supplies it with all the basics. ** although I doubt you heard of it, no more then the Pakistan's operation that is underway against the Taliban. Israel always has "benefited" from excessive attention and moral double standards.
  13. So my friend was right, interesting.
  14. @Monte Carlo. For the sake of the argument lets assume that we are. This way when you are bored, you can pole holes in all those US tv shows @Tale. iirc they have to mirandize him again, regardless here its about police intentionally violating his rights, knowing all to well that they wouldn't be able to use any of it against him, with purpose of gaining information about someone/something else.
  15. Does anyone know if the police can interrogating a suspect after he invoked his right for counsel? I always assumed that anything said after that point can't be used in anyway ( inadmissible in court or leads to fruit from poisons tree) However recently a friend suggested that the idea behind this is to avoid self incrimination, and thus you can keep interrogating the suspect and use that info as long as its not about him. So for example if the suspect said that he murdered someone, you can never use in anyway against him, but you can bring it up in court to eliminate him as suspect in another murder that happened at the same. ny truth to that?
  16. gaza is where hamas is. that is the difference. west bank is blockaded along israeli boarder. this were done to reduce/eliminate suicide bombings. 2001 peace talks broke down (last time israel seemed serious 'bout peace) after which second intifada kicks into high gear catching israel a bit unprepared. where negotiations failed to protect israel, the fence has been marvelously effective. is no complete blockade of the west bank. Pardon my English, but Blockade doesn't seem like an appropriate term, its like saying that USA blockading Mexico because they have a border fence between them.. and as far as I know West Bank has never been under "blockade"**, at best you can say is that the fence blocked illegal entry. iirc Israel at its narrow point is less then 10miles wide, most of it highly populated area, which placed terrorist a short hike away under cover of darkness from the nearest mall, thus the fence. **although the Palestinian Authority has yet to gain full sovereignty over that territory (pending final agreement) and is limited in various security aspects per the agreements. On the other hand, Gaza had been "blockaded" few times, since Hamas armed take over of it and the split of PA(West-Bank). Hamas who decided not to recognize Israel, the international agreements signed with it, and renouncing violence has thought to use the unsupervised sea route to smuggle weapons and isreal enforced a sea blockade. However, the land routes from Gaza to Egypt and Israel remained opened to everything else. (Although until very recently Egypt enforcement at their border was very lacking, allowing Hamas todo as they pleased. Which is exactly the scenario Israel is trying to avoid with West Bank Jordan. Considering the recent upheaval in Iraq/Syria I don't see Jordan trying too hard, which will upset its substantial Palestinians population, which they trying to appease) It depends how you look at it. Don't forget Iran is still steering the pot, there is larger arabic game here, which is why Hamas tried to cut out Egypt of the picture.
  17. Damn bloodsuckers. When I grew up, I used to live on the ground level with water source near by, i swear it felt like I was demoted from the top of the food chain into role of gas station for an angry mob. As for the rest tried + irritated is combination that can cause you to see many thing, my UFO tended to look like bikini models, go figure
  18. Bit late to the party, still i'd like to chime in with my two cents concerning the linked article in the OP. This part caught my eye was: As far as I know creating spins and playing with reasonable doubt to adapt to budgetary constraints is the bread and water of politicians everywhere, not just in the US. Just as well its not something unique to Climate change, but pretty much what happens on regular especially in hard time about issues that most people don't care about. As for the issue it self, IMO it has been proven that climate change is real, and needs to be addressed. However, there is no agreed game plan. As far as I know, North America and Europe contribution to the issues, hasn't chaged much in recent decade, with Asia breaking records. It is also my understanding that even if US take one sided drastic measures (which worked so well for them in recent global politics) trying to "soak" up the industrialization process in poorer countries, except burning a lot of money, and potential become less competitive, it wouldn't make a dent in the stats.
  19. lol, what an ass, although the world would have been a sad place without people like that to lighten up the mood day. I can't but wonder what does he do for a living that he can afford such projects?!
  20. Interesting, although going only by the cover, its hard to imagine how this: Suppose to replace this:
  21. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu9ZepcV0CM
  22. The bizarre and don't forget retarded part that I spoke off, wasn't about "keeping score", but you using it to imply about "proportionality" or as "moral guideline" for Israel response. Which should be obvious to anyone, but it might be clearer to you, if you try and answer the simple questions that I put forward for you, instead of pulling accusation out of your ass. The only plain thing here is that you are an idiot, because only an idiot can think that Israel is looking forward to one state solution and this being anything but taken out of context. I won't even bother googling that speech, to confirm that this Netanyahu guy, has been reinforcing Israels long standing security concerns. Which I might add, are very valid, in light of recent events there and the region at large, with Israel trying to avoid a fool me twice scenario. Also second class citizens?! definitely and idiot. One state solution would mean that Palestinians will get the same rights as all arab in Israel, which is equal rights, in fact just before that I read that Arab PM stated support for Hamas\Palestinians, you'd never see anything remotely of the sort among the Hamas bigots. Its like comparing Europe to Saudi Arabbi in terms of human rights. But, did you failed to notice that Palestinians has been divided for the past seven years, with Hamas rule in Gaza, and Fatah in the West Bank. That Israel intervention only occur in GAZA, after Hamas --who unlike Fatah refuse to recognize Israel, recolonize international agreements and forsake violence-- or any other terrorist group under its rule escalate the situation with barrage of rockets on Israel civilian population. While people in WestBank has no such interventions ( iirc the have laid down the foundation for the first Palestinian city and there were some talk of railway )
  23. @Gorgon, What was entirely predictable, is that Hamas --the Islamic radicals, that has set off this mini-war-- strategy would involve using Israeli civilians as target practice for its rocket\mortar barrages, while deliberately using their own civilians as human shields to protect its military targets against Israeli pinpoint attacks, and use the subsequent civilian casualties to wage a public relations war. Also I find your idea of "proportionality" as a moral guideline, being measured by body count bizarre\retarded. However, for the sake of the argument: I don't suppose that you subscribe to the notion that Palestinean any civilians deserve what's coming to them and you yourself stated that Hamas will gladly sacrifice Palestinian lives to achieve its goals. So what exactly do think an appropriate Israel response should be in defense of its civilian population, while Hamas (and other terrorist groups under their control) raining rockets down on them whenever they wish, with the only time that relative peace has been achieved, was when Hamas wanted it, which coincided with devastating blows to its power base by Israel? surelly you don't subscribe to the idea that Israel must protect Palestinian civilians at the cost of abandoning her own? For that matter how do you even compare the deliberate action use and targeting of civilians, and reactions which use the best measures that money can buy to avoid civilians casualties?
  24. I agree its a loop hole, but for the time being, before any of ya paranoia kicks in, that some immature kid in uniform getting off by spying on you butnaked having sex in the yard. I'd like to note, that they are likely to answer to a higher authority then Judge, and I don't mean GOD, but the elite fighters from accounting and horrors of s***load of bureaucracy in between At least I assume that you guys in the US are there, with all the budget cuts I have been hearing about. As always greed? Its a best-selling book, if he wins he can collect a pay check... That or those alleged remarks closed doors for him, which he needs to be open.
  • Create New...