RANDOM VIDEO GAME NEWS

[BruceVC]

 

 

Eidos is removing XP from Thief.

http://community.eidosmontreal.com/blogs/Take-5-QA-4

 

Stupid question but what is the objection to XP, I have never played any Thief games before so I don't know what the fuss was about

 

It's in the article. Basically that it rewards players for particular methods over the actual accomplishment of stealing.

 

Like the XP system gave rewards for headshots. Which means the game basically incentivizes shooting everyone in the head on your way to steal.

 

 

Okay so fans want to advance the character only through the core principle of the game, thieving. I suppose it makes sense

[Tigranes]

Thief already had goals y ou should achieve which were mission-specific and were tailored to help you play like a thief: steal stuff, don't knock anyone out, etc. What XP does is make you do all of those things - and/or other things like shoot people - not for the ultimate goal of playing like a thief but to earn new skills and develop your character. It actively detracts from what the game is trying to make you get into.

[Keyrock]

If anything, you should LOSE experience for headshots and such.  Garrett's whole mode of operation is to avoid killing unless absolutely necessary.  In fact, just avoiding combat of any kind unless absolutely necessary.  At least, that's how it was before.  Garrett might be an assassin now, for all I know.

[Orogun01]

If anything, you should LOSE experience for headshots and such.  Garrett's whole mode of operation is to avoid killing unless absolutely necessary.  In fact, just avoiding combat of any kind unless absolutely necessary.  At least, that's how it was before.  Garrett might be an assassin now, for all I know.

But..but...Call of Duty

[Zoraptor]

XP was symptomatic of the problem thiaf- and most modern 'reimaginings', to be fair- have. They want to use the brand name to make a game that isn't like the previous games in the series but is like Assassin's Creed or some other successful game. But they'll use the brand name even though it isn't well known and having a 'Garrett' who acts/ sounds little like the original doesn't bring much recognition because the Thief games were not huge sellers and the last one was ~ a decade ago so the only people who recognise him are likely to view revoicing and restyling negatively. Same with the apparent emphasis on the 'cinematic experience' and set pieces, only contextual actions, swooping etc, they'd be close to the last thing people still playing thief after all this time want, and the more casual fans are likely to have forgotten anyway.

 

I'm not exactly sure that removing XP at this stage is a good thing though, it must be pretty close to feature lock given it has around three months (supposedly hard dated) before release.

 

I actually don't have any inherent problems with xp in Thief on principle, though it certainly ought to be goal based (Bloodlines style) rather than standard RPG style. But it, and a lot of the other changes, makes sense only with a new character/ lead, not with a Garrett who may or may not be detached in the timeline but is certainly a master thief already. 

[Nepenthe]

XP was symptomatic of the problem thiaf- and most modern 'reimaginings', to be fair- have. They want to use the brand name to make a game that isn't like the previous games in the series but is like Assassin's Creed or some other successful game. But they'll use the brand name even though it isn't well known and having a 'Garrett' who acts/ sounds little like the original doesn't bring much recognition because the Thief games were not huge sellers and the last one was ~ a decade ago so the only people who recognise him are likely to view revoicing and restyling negatively. Same with the apparent emphasis on the 'cinematic experience' and set pieces, only contextual actions, swooping etc, they'd be close to the last thing people still playing thief after all this time want, and the more casual fans are likely to have forgotten anyway.

 

Looking at successful "reboots", we have.... Deus Ex? At least I can't think of anything else. I guess YMMV even on that, but I found it to be a good game that was faithful to the original.

[ShadySands]

Fallout 3 maybe? 

 

I didn't care for it but I did really enjoy DX:HR

Edited October 17, 2013 by ShadySands

[Nepenthe]

Fallout 3 maybe? 

 

I didn't care for it but I did really enjoy DX:HR

 

I dunno, I think it's more along the lines  of the "normal" reboots Zoraptor's talking about, even if it was a successful game in its own right. Basically they took the Fallout brand and applied it to a Bethesda type game.

[Lexx]

Deus Ex is the only one I can think of right now, and IMO this is only the case because they didn't changed the core of the game for once.

[Orogun01]

 

Fallout 3 maybe? 

 

I didn't care for it but I did really enjoy DX:HR

 

I dunno, I think it's more along the lines  of the "normal" reboots Zoraptor's talking about, even if it was a successful game in its own right. Basically they took the Fallout brand and applied it to a Bethesda type game.

 

Prince of Persia the Sands of Time.

 

The problem with modern reboots is that they just take an established franchise and completely disregard what the original was in order to favor an (arguably) misguided design style. Translation: Stealth games are not action games, RPGs are not shooters, and Dragon's Crown is not feminist friendly.

[JFSOCC]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-10-16-ubisoft-shares-plunge-20-percent

 

apparently delaying a game, and some bad sales make investors nervous.

 

This is why businessmen need to stay away from artists.

[Rosbjerg]

^ crap, I was looking forward to that..

 

 

The problem with modern reboots is that they just take an established franchise and completely disregard what the original was in order to favor an (arguably) misguided design style. Translation: Stealth games are not action games, RPGs are not shooters, and Dragon's Crown is not feminist friendly.

 

 

Good examples, Xcom is also a showcase of how you add modern elements to an existing formula while respecting it's origins.

[Zoraptor]

Fallout 3 maybe?

I wouldn't count Fallout 3, personally. Nor DXHR, though marginally. F3 is in continuity and while the end result is rather like restored_jesus.jpg rather than the Mona Lisa I don't think it was from lack of effort. They clearly did try to cater to the franchise's history, even if it was mainly peripheral things like getting hellboy to narrate an intro and have Harold appear in an utterly pointless encounter. Much as with XP in Thief, I don't really care about things like the perspective change though, which a lot of people do.

 

The classic 'bad' reboot to me would be the recentish Syndicate, where the name was nothing but baggage.

 

The really stupid thing is that Thief could quite easily have avoided a lot of the fan negativity. The story is clearly based on- or at least compatible with- being post Thief 3 and there'd be very little negative in paying lip service to the established setting, and that little bit of respect would have got many of the fans on board. As it was though they basically told the fans that the games they loved were rubbish and needed changing, never a good place to start from.

[Malcador]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-10-16-ubisoft-shares-plunge-20-percent

 

apparently delaying a game, and some bad sales make investors nervous.

 

This is why businessmen need to stay away from artists.

Ubisoft makes art ?

[Mamoulian War]

 

XP was symptomatic of the problem thiaf- and most modern 'reimaginings', to be fair- have. They want to use the brand name to make a game that isn't like the previous games in the series but is like Assassin's Creed or some other successful game. But they'll use the brand name even though it isn't well known and having a 'Garrett' who acts/ sounds little like the original doesn't bring much recognition because the Thief games were not huge sellers and the last one was ~ a decade ago so the only people who recognise him are likely to view revoicing and restyling negatively. Same with the apparent emphasis on the 'cinematic experience' and set pieces, only contextual actions, swooping etc, they'd be close to the last thing people still playing thief after all this time want, and the more casual fans are likely to have forgotten anyway.

 

Looking at successful "reboots", we have.... Deus Ex? At least I can't think of anything else. I guess YMMV even on that, but I found it to be a good game that was faithful to the original.

 

 

Mortal Kombat "9" can be named as another successful reboot

[Elerond]

 

 

XP was symptomatic of the problem thiaf- and most modern 'reimaginings', to be fair- have. They want to use the brand name to make a game that isn't like the previous games in the series but is like Assassin's Creed or some other successful game. But they'll use the brand name even though it isn't well known and having a 'Garrett' who acts/ sounds little like the original doesn't bring much recognition because the Thief games were not huge sellers and the last one was ~ a decade ago so the only people who recognise him are likely to view revoicing and restyling negatively. Same with the apparent emphasis on the 'cinematic experience' and set pieces, only contextual actions, swooping etc, they'd be close to the last thing people still playing thief after all this time want, and the more casual fans are likely to have forgotten anyway.

 

Looking at successful "reboots", we have.... Deus Ex? At least I can't think of anything else. I guess YMMV even on that, but I found it to be a good game that was faithful to the original.

 

 

Mortal Kombat "9" can be named as another successful reboot

 

 

Also Tomb Raider and XCOM: Enemy Unknown where quite succesful reboots.

[Keyrock]

 

 

 

XP was symptomatic of the problem thiaf- and most modern 'reimaginings', to be fair- have. They want to use the brand name to make a game that isn't like the previous games in the series but is like Assassin's Creed or some other successful game. But they'll use the brand name even though it isn't well known and having a 'Garrett' who acts/ sounds little like the original doesn't bring much recognition because the Thief games were not huge sellers and the last one was ~ a decade ago so the only people who recognise him are likely to view revoicing and restyling negatively. Same with the apparent emphasis on the 'cinematic experience' and set pieces, only contextual actions, swooping etc, they'd be close to the last thing people still playing thief after all this time want, and the more casual fans are likely to have forgotten anyway.

 

Looking at successful "reboots", we have.... Deus Ex? At least I can't think of anything else. I guess YMMV even on that, but I found it to be a good game that was faithful to the original.

 

 

Mortal Kombat "9" can be named as another successful reboot

 

 

Also Tomb Raider and XCOM: Enemy Unknown where quite succesful reboots.

 

I disagree 100% on Torture Porn Raider.  Words cannot express how much I hate that game.  I know some people like it, but for me it was the polar opposite of "successful reboot", it effectively murdered Lara and buried her in a shallow grave, in my mind.

[Guest Slinky]

Depends how you see succesful reboot, it was a financial success I believe and sold a good number of copies so I'm sure the suits are considering the new TR as one.

 

But if it also would need the approval of old fans of the series... to me QTE Raider is an example how horrible "modernisation" can be.

[Keyrock]

Depends how you see succesful reboot, it was a financial success I believe and sold a good number of copies so I'm sure the suits are considering the new TR as one.

 

But if it also would need the approval of old fans of the series... to me QTE Raider is an example how horrible "modernisation" can be.

Actually, according to Squeenix, and for this purpose their opinion is the only one that counts, Torture Porn Raider was a financial failure, despite selling multiple millions of copies.  As for your second sentence, obviously we're in complete agreement.

[Guest Slinky]

 

Depends how you see succesful reboot, it was a financial success I believe and sold a good number of copies so I'm sure the suits are considering the new TR as one.

 

But if it also would need the approval of old fans of the series... to me QTE Raider is an example how horrible "modernisation" can be.

Actually, according to Squeenix, and for this purpose their opinion is the only one that counts, Torture Porn Raider was a financial failure, despite selling multiple millions of copies.  As for your second sentence, obviously we're in complete agreement.

 

Looked into it, apparently it sold around 4 million copies and still didn't meet it's expectations... Could the industry crash down already, it's getting ridiculous.

[Fighter]

I liked the new TR, wasn't a fan of the old ones so I don't care for consistency there. Square Enix announced a sequel already. Which I think means their expectations were just greedy and unrealistic and maybe nothing to do with break-even point or profitability.

Edited October 17, 2013 by Fighter

[alanschu]

 

 

Actually, according to Squeenix, and for this purpose their opinion is the only one that counts, Torture Porn Raider was a financial failure, despite selling multiple millions of copies.  As for your second sentence, obviously we're in complete agreement.

 

Meeting expectations and financial failure are two different things.

 

There's a new Tomb Raider game in development, according to Square-Enix.  So, in the "only [opinion] that counts," Tomb Raider is seen as enough of a success to warrant more games.

[Hurlshort]

I doubt Xcom sold better than TR either, but the expectation were probably vastly different.

[Keyrock]

I would be curious what the new fans gained (likely from the Gears of Wars type crowd) vs. old fans alienated breakdown for Torture Porn Raider is.  If new fans gained > old fans lost then I guess it would be a success in that department.

[Raithe]

I would have to say, that the reboot TR wasn't really a Tomb Raider game. What it was was a prequel that establishes why the character becomes the Tomb Raider of future games.. So I'll be curious just how they handle the next TR game, and how well they develop it.