Mass Effect 3

[GhostofAnakin]

Interesting interview with BioWare's Patrick Weekes http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/11154234

 

Surprisingly more candid than the PR stuff we've been getting lately.

[213374U]

Sweet, a direct Alpha Protocol reference. A pity they ultimately decided to adopt the exact opposite design philosophy and, you know, make major decisions not count for ****.

 

Where was Harbinger? Can we ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL of him?

 

I definitely want more closure on Harbinger. That'd be hilarious. Stop punching yourself, Harbinger.

 

I lol'd

Edited April 8, 2012 by 213374U

[Gorth]

I wonder who wrote the "Thessia" and follow up part. That's where I went from scratching my head, wondering if I liked the game (which had been a bumpy ride so far) or not to actively disliking it.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Sweet, a direct Alpha Protocol reference. A pity they ultimately decided to adopt the exact opposite design philosophy and, you know, make major decisions not count for ****.

 

Are we sure it's a reference that Weekes made? The guy specified that's not a direct transcript, so he might have just made the reference himself as a comparison.

[Malcador]

Welcome to game development. In some games (Alpha Protocol) they make a bold choice where some decisions can knock entire missions out of the story. At BioWare, we never want people to be locked out of content due to a decision several games ago. We just didn't have the resources to do an alternate for the Rachni mission, so we decided that the Rachni mission could occur whether or not players saved the Queen

 

Well, at least he's honest.

 

Also neat, apparently all the plot-armoured characters on the Citadel made it out when the Reapers hijack it.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Malcador

[Gorgon]

All the Me2 squad member missions occur, with the actual Me2 member or a body double. Well except those where you just truck around the citadel. Don't know about Miranda mission since it's only one dialouge that would have to be altered, but I suspect it's the same. The reaper Rachni queen is just another body double for the real one.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Gorgon

[GhostofAnakin]

Sweet, a direct Alpha Protocol reference. A pity they ultimately decided to adopt the exact opposite design philosophy and, you know, make major decisions not count for ****.

 

I thought the exact same thing when I read that part. I actually wished they went the "Alpha Protocol route", rather than what they did. If a player misses out on a mission because of a decision he made previously, that's a good thing in my books. It's a perfect example of choice and consequence.

[Oner]

Don't see why they put given choices in in the first place.

You'd think killing the (apparently) Last Queen of an insect race would make it pretty obvious you're making a big decision and might lose out on, I dunno, their future appearances.

[Tale]

Except Legion isn't a single individual, it's a network composed of a thousand different AI's.

Thematically it makes sense that taking decision making code from individualistic AI like Sovereign or Harbinger

The Reapers aren't individuals, either. They are the same as the Geth were, a collective. Hinted in ME1 (a nation), stated in ME2 (the Geth touched Sovereign's mind and found millions of voices), and reinforced in ME3 (EDI's talk about what makes her different from Geth and Reapers).

[Volourn]

Ap sucks. Nobody should copy that horrible game. Don't bring up that sort of trash in a game (but flawed) games' thread. Thank you very much.

[greylord]

Ap sucks. Nobody should copy that horrible game. Don't bring up that sort of trash in a game (but flawed) games' thread. Thank you very much.

 

Expected from Volourn.

 

My take is...AP was GREAT. I'm not certain that would have been the best route for ME3 though.

[Gorgon]

Well, they do kind of suggest that you replay the game in another class. Why not just have included a save game editor at character creation for the benifit of those who hadn't played ME1. Would have ensured that a replay could be significantly different.

[Drowsy Emperor]

AP is the bestest game ever!

[Serrano]

Well, they do kind of suggest that you replay the game in another class. Why not just have included a save game editor at character creation for the benifit of those who hadn't played ME1. Would have ensured that a replay could be significantly different.

 

My guess would be either it would take too long to properly bug test or they didn't want to cut into sales of the previous games during the ME3 launch period.

[Zoraptor]

Well, they do kind of suggest that you replay the game in another class. Why not just have included a save game editor at character creation for the benifit of those who hadn't played ME1. Would have ensured that a replay could be significantly different.

I was pretty sure that the 'trial' at the beginning was going to be used Kotor 2 style to set up important decisions ("Please explain your actions with regard to the Rachni, Commander- (1) Genocide is bad, mmkay? (2) I've watched Starship Troopers") when I first heard about it. Too much effort/ voice recording required maybe?

Thematically it makes sense that taking decision making code from individualistic AI like Sovereign or Harbinger

The Reapers aren't individuals, either. They are the same as the Geth were, a collective. Hinted in ME1 (a nation), stated in ME2 (the Geth touched Sovereign's mind and found millions of voices), and reinforced in ME3 (EDI's talk about what makes her different from Geth and Reapers).

Individualistic AI- any species with (in effect) telepathy would be somewhat collective in nature. We know that the reapers have separate identites (Sov/ Harb) which for the purposes of Legion referring to himself as I is all that really counts.

 

From what I can tell the closest equivalent would be that individual geth were like cells in a body- they have no effective existence outside of that. They might have different functions like being kidney equivalents but the only difference we had seen between them at all was due to a hardware difference- 'cancer', in the analogy.

[Gorth]

From what I can tell the closest equivalent would be that individual geth were like cells in a body- they have no effective existence outside of that. They might have different functions like being kidney equivalents but the only difference we had seen between them at all was due to a hardware difference- 'cancer', in the analogy.

The way Legion describes it, Geth works like the internet with a gestalt consciousness. Start removing users from the internet and the combined wisdom and intelligence of the internet users start diminishing... wait, that didn't sound right?

[Orogun01]

Well, they do kind of suggest that you replay the game in another class. Why not just have included a save game editor at character creation for the benifit of those who hadn't played ME1. Would have ensured that a replay could be significantly different.

If you give a man a fish you feed him for a day, if you give him a save editor you ruin the chance that he will buy the previous games and DLC

[Gorth]

Well, they do kind of suggest that you replay the game in another class. Why not just have included a save game editor at character creation for the benifit of those who hadn't played ME1. Would have ensured that a replay could be significantly different.

If you give a man a fish you feed him for a day, if you give him a save editor you ruin the chance that he will buy the previous games and DLC

If you give a man a fish, you may create a new market. If you open up a fish store you can sell fish and fish bits to him regularly

 

Judging by the mod scene for the ME franchise, the engine/file format is not easy to dance with.

[Nepenthe]

7-How did Udina end up on the Council if you picked Anderson in ME1?

That one at least is explained in game- in the codex, I think, since I noticed it and went looking for an answer. Resigned from the council to prepare for the reapers when the council did it's standard sit-on-hands routine one time too many.

 

That's just lazy. At least they some lip service was paid to the other inconsequential choices. This was one of the bigger decisions in ME1, not to mention how it's the last choice you make in that game.

Yes, Bioware always said it was a crucial decision. That's why it doesn't get stored in the end game save.

[Orogun01]

Well I finished my run.

 

I have an overwhelming apathy washing over me. Worst of all is that all the elements to make a decent; even great, story were there.

They didn't go far enough with their explanation; just gave some half arsed " this it's for your own good" (from a visual representation of what could only be considered the Creator, which apparently Shepard didn't think to ask) and then they try to make up for it by piling some unnecessary and story breaking scenes.

 

Did they really needed to flip us the bird with the guy and the kid just basically telling you "All that has happened it's bullcrap" I don't get it, they go through all the trouble of building up a story just to bring everything down at the end.

[Gorth]

They didn't go far enough with their explanation; just gave some half arsed " this it's for your own good" (from a visual representation of what could only be considered the Creator, which apparently Shepard didn't think to ask) and then they try to make up for it by piling some unnecessary and story breaking scenes.

I think the game would have been better for it if they hadn't touched the origin of Reapers or their motivations at all. Just settle for a bloody nose and send them back to intergalactic darkness for another 50000 years for somebody else to worry about, but that's just me.

 

I mentioned end of Thessia a few posts ago as the breaking point for me personally. Up until then, the main story had been rather meh, failing to compel me, the player to save an uncaring galaxy, but then it was sprinkled with all the little good bits all over the place. As empty as the main plot felt, as much did some of the surroundings feel alive and a number of excellent little stories and details played out in the periphery (sp?).

 

Two things killed it...

 

First off, the katana wielding Jar Jar Binks, as a failed comic (book) relief. Ok, so some cartoon figure shows up and wants to fight, no big deal. I, Gorth, then proceeds with beating the snot out of him, leaving tissue there, brain matter splattered on the wall and the rest of him in a broken, bloody pile on the floor. That's when the game decides to tell me: "Sorry Gorth, I can not let you do that. I have now unilaterally declared your opponent the winner of this contest". Gorth said to the game: "WTF, you've got to be kidding me???". Game then starts yet another long, uninterruptable cutscene, showing Gorth falling into a chasm and bad guy making off with the spoils. Good grief, it was a completely unfunny gamer experience with Malak in Kotor1 and the intervening decade hasn't improved it one inch.

 

Second part was the immediate aftermath. After having been cheated not by Cerberus but by the game and the designers, I, Gorth, wanted to grab a Cain 920, a backpack of ammo and a magnetic grappling hook and head for the nearest Reaper, shoving my mini-nuke into it's face and pull the trigger while yelling: "This hurts you, you'll feel this!"... and what happens?

 

Everybody in the room gets into some kind of conspiracy to agree on Shepard feeling some kind of guilt over having been cheated by the game. For effins sake, those Asari ****'s had it coming with their arrogance, smugness and covetousness. So much for adhering to some treaty about sharing Protean tech. They got their blue butts handed to them? They got exactly what they deserved. Wanted to tell Hackett as much, yet instead my Shepard goes "Waahh!... I lost" like some kind of frigging Emo (which is one of the worst derogatory terms I know) and pretends to be in on the joke,

 

Almost surreal that such things happens in a game that features brilliant stuff like Tuchanka and the Geth/Quarian conflict. The latter sure caught me completely by its outcome

Tali removed her mask and jumped over the cliff side.

 

 

Lots of great detail, not very good main story arc. In ME2 it didn't matter, as it was secondary to the sidequests and companions. In ME3 it matters and falls short. When finally getting through London, the ending didn't upset me, as I stopped being "invested" in the game since before going to London.

[Janmanden]

Not really pointing fingers here, but I am a bit surprised by you Gorth and others too actually. I think there should have been some more spoiler tags in there, but maybe we are past that now? Nobody can be really spoiled anymore? Okay, fine.

 

Imo, ME3 is a Pandoras box of symbolic choices, flaws and plot-hole headaches. The game blindside you, change everything to make it fit conveniently,suppress opposition and try to force a logic on you with pointless choices that it doesn't use for itself and it's hard to dodge the feeling of rape and abuse..

 

Bioware was never really big on freedom and choice.. Hmmmm.. I wonder why my expectations are just higher.. Maybe because they were once sort of connected with BiS and.. Yeah, I think that's it. Somehow a bit of Fallout rubbed off on Bioware, but they never really embraced it.. Or maybe not that. Anyway..

 

** SPOILERISH **

 

Catalyst: The created will always rebel against the creators and blah-blah-blah ORDER blah-blah-blah..

 

- Well, isn't that part of the natural O-R-D-E-R in some way?

- What about the Reapers, are they not your creation, eh?

- What about the peace and co-operation between the Geth and the Quarians, eh?

- What about the Geth, before they were true AI's, keeping to themselves until you intervened and turned them against us, eh?

- Okay so the naive, stupid and narrowminded Quarians got it wrong, but I fixed it, didn't I?

- What about EDI, EDI and Joker, eh?

- What about the whole galactic community, every organic species AND the synthetics joined together to fight your stupid machines, eh?

 

The three endings are disappointing imo, but sort of okay, because they happen on the Citadel. The Crucible is most likely part of the same design as the Citadel.. It's a trap. Instead of having the galactic community making their own weapon that will most surely kill the Reapers the Original creator of the farce decides to leave some plans around that will defuse the situation.. Some insane sadistic genious cackling with maniacal glee is out there somewhere.. Or that's just where the state of game is now after it has been rewritten for every sequel..

 

The only thing that really bothers me about the ending is that there is no alternative to the buliding of the Crucible and there is no way to just be rid of the Reapers and there is no dialogue options for disputing or refuting the narrowminded and retarded assertions of a little boy.. I am not violent by nature, but that little boy deserves a good (read: bad) long spanking.. The Catalyst only poses as a little boy, but they clearly share the same logical limitations of little boys in general..

 

I think ME3 is probably a poster-child for Blue-ray, because it's like playing a slightly interactive movie. You get the chance to play a few action sequences and a choice between some deleted scenes and dialogue, as if Bioware throws us a bone of symbolic choice for old times sake, before they move on as envisioned.. Unfortunately I was ready to play a game with some RPG elements and I was alienated every time the game turned me into a spectator, which happened far too often and well.. I was kind of ready for a forced and disappointing ending or whatever..

 

It also kind of annoy me that everytime there is a cutscene, Shepard seems like such a loser, never use any biotics and he always pulls out some mysterious gun I neither use nor have anywhere on me.. On Mars, the last sequence where Eve attacks you.. Her health bar is red, no barriers, no shield, no armor.. by all means vulnerable to everything I can throw at her, but in fact invulnerable to everything else than a gun.. When Kai Leng escapes.. Yeah, I would have liked to scold the patro.. matronizing, arrogant and superior Asari too.. I would really like to rub it in their nose, sometimes, but it always so 'paragorn' and humble.. It IS Biowares story and they constantly remind me that I am just a pawn in their game.. I would like the game turned upside down. Script all the pointless running around and just leave me with the choices and shooting..

 

There are some moments here and there, mostly there, to few to be most, much, most, 'most' sound like too many.. never mind.. erm, - where I got the feeling that somebody had fun making stories and it was fun for me too.. but unfortunately the creator of that wasn't in charge or everything was rushed and cut too much to be as attentive to everything else.. That button-pushing moment on Surkesh, where you get to annoy one of the Salarians is one of a handful.. with a few missing fingers.. great moments.. Somehow akin to the Mako in ME1, having a big square map and a vehicle that can go ANYWHERE.. 360 degrees of choice and some vertical freedom too.. I don't quite understand why people that resent the Mako can also resent the game as it is now.. Seems like mutually exclusive.. Weird.

 

Hm... write a little here and there and all of sudden it's a big chunk of yuck. Reminds me of something. Maybe I should apply for a position somewhere..

[Janmanden]

Btw, Kai Leng is not Jar Jar Binks, Javik is.

[Baeus]

I just have no motivation to finish ME3. I got to the end of the Quarian/Geth bit, and it's wierd, I just can't be bothered putting the disc back in. I played ME2 start to finish 3 times, so it's not the 'it's not an rpg thing'. The game is just missing something. Tuchanka was fun, but I just don't want to go back onto the citadel and run back and forth through the hopital and the embassies and every other level looking for some sidequest so I can go through 5 loading screens and fly to another corner of the galaxy and try to not run out of fuel and scan the planet and run back and get another 3 loading screens and find the guy again and give him his trinket so I don't get the crappy ending... bah.

 

At least in Dragon Age 2 when I did one of the mini-sidequests and found a corpse on the beach and brought it back to his brother, I would get a laugh when Hawke said 'check your pockets, I think you lost this'. Don't even get that here.

[Giantevilhead]

Kai Leng is reverse Jar Jar Binks. Whenever he shows up, everyone puts on their idiot hats and become Jar Jar Binkses.

 

It is funny how they do quite a few of those kinds of reversals like what they do with Shepard in the cut scenes. In most games, the cut scenes generally make the characters, especially the heroes, a lot more kickass than when they're controlled by the player. They show the main character taking down 50 bad guys, sniping enemies with shotguns, and doing all sorts of acrobats. The ME3 cut scenes make Shepard look like a weakling. S/he's indecisive, slow to react, physically weak, inaccurate, and unable to use any tech/biotic powers or special combat skills.

 

As for the story, I really think the whole thing started falling apart with "The Arrival" DLC, which had a terribly written story with big plot holes, all sorts of nonsensical crap, and basically erased/supplanted ME2's main plot and its dramatic ending.