Obsidian Entertainment: My Thoughts on most of their games

[sorophx]

hot take: well done RTWP is miles above the best turn-based system, because it's happening on a computer, and we don't need every game to be a "tabletop-like". the computer can calculate everything very fast and just show me how the state changed, and it can do it continuously. I don't need to wait for the "enemy" to take its turn. it's a user experience issue rather than a fundamental combat design issue. 

[kanisatha]

18 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Have   you   never played any post-apocalyptic games  like Fallout,  Metro  or  STALKER

Yes they not fantasy but they are  an excellent genre   and  they have  some similar components  like monsters  become  mutants or mutated  creatures 

No, never.

Given the dirth of quality fantasy RPGs to play nowadays, I've slowly become open to the idea of trying some post-apocalyptic RPGs. But for me to be willing to try them, they'd need to at least satisfy me with respect to my other major game preferences: be party-based; no first-person perspective; melee combat just as viable and effective as shooting from afar. Oh, and I'm probably not going to try a super-old game. I'm not one for wanting fancy graphics, but even I have my limits.

Recommendations?

[BruceVC]

24 minutes ago, kanisatha said:

No, never.

Given the dirth of quality fantasy RPGs to play nowadays, I've slowly become open to the idea of trying some post-apocalyptic RPGs. But for me to be willing to try them, they'd need to at least satisfy me with respect to my other major game preferences: be party-based; no first-person perspective; melee combat just as viable and effective as shooting from afar. Oh, and I'm probably not going to try a super-old game. I'm not one for wanting fancy graphics, but even I have my limits.

Recommendations?

Okay your requirements  make it harder  for a  recommendation   because  Metro and  STALKER  are FPS  and Fallout 1&2 are isometric but not party based.  You can have 1-2 companions but its  not like  BG or PoE

Maybe Wasteland fits that requirement but I havent played them so I cant  comment

 Wormie or  Mamie or someone  else may have suggestions ?

@Wormerine @Mamoulian War  any thoughts for post-Apocalyptic  games that are  "party-based;no first-person perspective; melee combat just as viable and effective as shooting from afar" 

 

 

[Hurlshort]

2 hours ago, sorophx said:

hot take: well done RTWP is miles above the best turn-based system, because it's happening on a computer, and we don't need every game to be a "tabletop-like". the computer can calculate everything very fast and just show me how the state changed, and it can do it continuously. I don't need to wait for the "enemy" to take its turn. it's a user experience issue rather than a fundamental combat design issue. 

I agree it's a user experience. I prefer as the use to have the time to plan out my moves, then have the computer respond, and then I get to respond and plan again. That's why I don't think you can say one is better than the other. It's like saying chocolate ice cream is miles above vanilla ice cream. They are just different flavors.

I prefer vanilla, in case you need to know. But I'll put some chocolate chip on top to spice it up.  

[ShadySands]

So excluding the following games which I have either not played or not bothered to finish.

• Grounded - DNP
• Pentiment - DNF
• Dungeon Siege 3 - DNP
• The Outer Worlds - DNF
• New Vegas - DNF
• Pathfinder Adventures - DNP
• Armored Warfare - DNP
• Skyforge - DNP

These are my top 3 Obs games with honorable mention to Tyranny

1. KOTOR2
2. Deadfire
3. Alpha Protocol

 

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Okie Dokie

KoTor 2 - I originally played this before the first one on a friend's xbox when I was either in elementary or middle school. It blew my mind. Coming back to it years later as an adult I found it was rough around the edges but still largely held up.

NWN2 - I was a big 3.5 guy back in middle school and high school, so I played the **** out of this. MotB remains one of the best dnd things I have ever played, og campaign was meh and the other expansion was cool but not really my thing.

Fallout: New Vegas - Probably one of the best games I have ever played. I finished it once because I have a terminal case of rerollitis but I 

PoE - On paper I should love this game, but on release I hated it because the way it came together it was just too damn tedious. After expansions and polishing it I find it to be ok to good but still missing something.

Deadfire - As with the orignal, on paper I should love it but in practice I just don't. It didn't have as rocky of a release as PoE but at it's worst it's very tedious. Also I got killed more by traps than by combat lmao, because they made trap detection only influenced by Perception and only give one companion with good perception and I didn't take the gun lady with me as much. And I thought that 5 man party just felt odd, but I tend to prefer even numbers.

Tyranny - An ok sidestory game, but not very memorable.

The rest I haven't played much of or I forgot about them.

[Wormerine]

3 hours ago, kanisatha said:

Given the dirth of quality fantasy RPGs to play nowadays, I've slowly become open to the idea of trying some post-apocalyptic RPGs. But for me to be willing to try them, they'd need to at least satisfy me with respect to my other major game preferences: be party-based; no first-person perspective; melee combat just as viable and effective as shooting from afar. Oh, and I'm probably not going to try a super-old game.

3 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Okay your requirements  make it harder  for a  recommendation   because  Metro and  STALKER  are FPS  and Fallout 1&2 are isometric but not party based.  You can have 1-2 companions but its not like BG or PoE

Maybe Wasteland fits that requirement but I havent played them so I cant  comment

 Wormie or  Mamie or someone  else may have suggestions ?

Unfortunately, from what I know of @kanisatha he is particular enough, that finding something that would fit right into his preferences is tricky.

I think Fallout: New Vegas is one of the better RPGs in recent memory so I would recommend it. It is based on Bethesda engine so you can play in third person, and you do have companions but like in Skyrim, you can't control them.

Wasteland 2&3 are good, but they are turn based and combat heavy, and I don't think k. will like that (even I was a bit bored by frequency of combat encounters in W3: I played W2 too long ago to remember).

Fallout1&2 are classics and must be recommended. I wish they would get a nice remaster to make UI less horrific, and add some quality of life features. Again, like New Vegas it is a single character control and turn-based, and quite clunky at times.

How is Owlcat's new Warhammer RPG? I didnt play it, and didn't see much discussion about it.

[Mamoulian War]

4 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Okay your requirements  make it harder  for a  recommendation   because  Metro and  STALKER  are FPS  and Fallout 1&2 are isometric but not party based.  You can have 1-2 companions but its  not like  BG or PoE

Maybe Wasteland fits that requirement but I havent played them so I cant  comment

 Wormie or  Mamie or someone  else may have suggestions ?

@Wormerine @Mamoulian War  any thoughts for post-Apocalyptic  games that are  "party-based;no first-person perspective; melee combat just as viable and effective as shooting from afar" 

 

 

Atom RPG, Atom: Trudograd and Encased came to my mind as first picks.

[Gfted1]

4 hours ago, kanisatha said:

Recommendations?

https://store.steampowered.com/app/228280/Baldurs_Gate_Enhanced_Edition/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/257350/Baldurs_Gate_II_Enhanced_Edition/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/385970/Baldurs_Gate_Siege_of_Dragonspear/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/321800/Icewind_Dale_Enhanced_Edition/

All have been updated for modern PC's.

[melkathi]

3 hours ago, Wormerine said:

 

How is Owlcat's new Warhammer RPG? I didnt play it, and didn't see much discussion about it.

It is being patched.

There are still numerous minor bugs (like rumours not clearing out of quest log) but overall it is playable and enjoyable. There seems to be at least at times importance to the order in which you do things. You are given options on how to do things. 

The system works, but some class choices seem complicated for the sake of being complicated. Some things have been hit with the nerf bat. 

I think the current verdict is, if you have waited this long, might as well wait another month for the big patch.

Writing wise? Jae is annoying as feth. Don't feth up and get even near her fething romance. It doesn't fething belong in 40k. Fething Jae should Not be in 40k. If we wanted annoying as feth smuggling scoundrels we'd watch star wars.

Though what sort of war dat sposed ter be? A propa waaaaagh is not just wun, too, tree lettarz. A propa waaaaaagh has lotz of lettaz. Lotz of Boyz and lotz of dakka. Neva enuff dakka. Star Waaaaagh would be a good name.

[Zoraptor]

4 hours ago, Wormerine said:

Wasteland 2&3 are good, but they are turn based and combat heavy, and I don't think k. will like that (even I was a bit bored by frequency of combat encounters in W3: I played W2 too long ago to remember).

Wasteland 2 may actually have more combat than W3. IIRC it's a lot easier to breeze through the trivial ones than in W3 though, so it feels like less.

 

Stretch the common definition of post apocalyptic a bit and there's the Colony Ship RPG. Fits the bill otherwise (caveat: party size is dependent on the main character's stats/ traits).

[Bartimaeus]

The only Obsidian game that I've finished is Neverwinter Nights 2 (and Mask of the Betrayer). The controls and movement in the NWN games are a royal pain in the butt and I never thought the transition from isometric gameplay a la Baldur's Gate really served it well, but I did quite like MotB even so...the base campaign was alright. I put like ten hours into New Vegas and Pillars of Eternity both, didn't really care for either of them - otherwise, I haven't tried anything else. I was vaguely interested in trying Grounded and Tyranny at some point, but I'm pretty bad at playing games these days.

Though I registered in like 2008 for some reason that I don't remember, I only became more active here on the Obsidian forums when Pillars of Eternity was kickstarted back in 2012, I'm pretty sure. When Josh Sawyer started releasing the little video diaries that explained various things about how the game design/development was going was unfortunately when I kind of started to check out of the whole Pillars of Eternity experience, which was probably for the best because I ended up really not liking the game pretty much at all once it was released.

Edited March 21 by Bartimaeus

[BruceVC]

10 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/228280/Baldurs_Gate_Enhanced_Edition/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/257350/Baldurs_Gate_II_Enhanced_Edition/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/385970/Baldurs_Gate_Siege_of_Dragonspear/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/321800/Icewind_Dale_Enhanced_Edition/

All have been updated for modern PC's.

We were just  looking for post-apocalyptic games,  not  fantasy.  Also he has  played BG as  far as I know

[xzar_monty]

On 3/19/2024 at 8:20 PM, sorophx said:

I think it has more to do with "density. an example: I was trying to read a book that's 380 pages. I had about 50 pages left when some stuff came up, and I had to put the book down for a month. 1 month later I come back to it, open the book at the page I left off and realize I don't remember who all the characters are except for the main character. so I just put the book back on the shelf.

Ok, fair enough. I don't have this myself but I see where you're coming from and it's a valid point.

(I never set out to memorize stuff, but my memory happens to work in such a way that I can quote more literature by heart that anyone would ever want to listen to -- not all of it correctly, mind you, so it's not as if my memory is eidetic.)

[kanisatha]

19 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/228280/Baldurs_Gate_Enhanced_Edition/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/257350/Baldurs_Gate_II_Enhanced_Edition/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/385970/Baldurs_Gate_Siege_of_Dragonspear/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/321800/Icewind_Dale_Enhanced_Edition/

All have been updated for modern PC's.

Thanks. All these, and other similar games, I have and have played (repeatedly).

[kanisatha]

20 hours ago, Wormerine said:

Unfortunately, from what I know of @kanisatha he is particular enough, that finding something that would fit right into his preferences is tricky.

I think Fallout: New Vegas is one of the better RPGs in recent memory so I would recommend it. It is based on Bethesda engine so you can play in third person, and you do have companions but like in Skyrim, you can't control them.

Wasteland 2&3 are good, but they are turn based and combat heavy, and I don't think k. will like that (even I was a bit bored by frequency of combat encounters in W3: I played W2 too long ago to remember).

Fallout1&2 are classics and must be recommended. I wish they would get a nice remaster to make UI less horrific, and add some quality of life features. Again, like New Vegas it is a single character control and turn-based, and quite clunky at times.

How is Owlcat's new Warhammer RPG? I didnt play it, and didn't see much discussion about it.

Thanks. Yeah you are correct in your assessment. It is indeed tricky to find games I will like outside of my many strong preferences. I am trying to broaden my preferences, but the problem is I keep finding out that I'd rather just replay an old game that I liked than play a new game that is so-so to me.

[xzar_monty]

20 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/385970/Baldurs_Gate_Siege_of_Dragonspear/

Btw, I have no idea whether there was much discussion about this here at the time, and I have no desire to re-ignite it if there was, but it has to be said that some of the writing on this one was just ghastly. I did play it once, though, and it was enjoyable enough despite all the flaws in the writing department.

[Gfted1]

I own all the BG EE's but havent played any of them. Even though its my favorite RPG of all time (like another poster mentioned, I could never get my head around D&D 3.5) Ive only ever played it once. I save scum and click through all the dialog options in the first playthrough, so theres never a time I replay them for a different outcome. I guess Im just a game collector now lol.

[Mamoulian War]

I think, I might drop few words about my experience with the Obsidian games, now that this "pandora's box" has been open

KOTOR2: Awesome sequel to awesome game. I have mostly enjoyed it and tried to go the most "lighty" way possible. Unfortunately, at some point, I have completely lost myself in Pazzaak, and completely lost track of the story, so I have never finished this game up until the end, and up to this day, I am trying to avoid any spoilers on this board. Unfortunately sometimes with no success

NWN2: Again awesome sequel to awesome game. I loved the game even more, than KOTOR2, and thankfully, without crack-like minigame, I was able to finish it . Twice. Once with Vanilla updates only, and once with both Expansion installed to try out some interesting Prestige Class gameplay. Of course, I have also played the expansions. MotB was very interesting and I loved where the story went. Unfortunately, my high level builds have been not optimal, so I struggled a lot with enemy immunities, which was the primary cause, why I have never finished it. SoZ on the other hand, was everything, what I wanted from 3.5E game, and breezed through it up until final dungeon in no time. For me, this is the best DnD game ever released, despite some of the flaws it had. Lastly Mysteries of Westgate, I know it was Ossian, but it would be shame to miss out on golden opportunity to complain again , how due to the stupid DRM decision Atari killed off not only all interest in this expansion, but also all chances to see more NWN2 expansions

Alpha Protocol: My oh my. I have never thought, that I would be able to love a modern era RPG, and even in first person. IMHO, this game has shown, how it should be done. Unfortunately, very few studios have taken example out of it, which is sad

Fallout NV: Not played it yet, due to being a long time Steam exclusive. Of course I already own it on GOG, but yeah... my backlog

Dungeon Siege III: Same as above. With the difference, that I still do not own it, as it is not fully my cup of tea, but I promise, that if my backlog shrinks a little bit, I will definitely play it

South Park TSoT: I want to play it, ... a lot. But no deal, until Ubi put's it DRM free on GOG.

PoE1: Kickstarted it, played it a little bit, ended up under the Gallows Tree, and then waited until the final patch was released, started it over and finished the game with both expansions "in one breath". It was worth every single penny, I put into the Collector's Edition. The only downside were the backer NPC dialogues, which also stopped my playthrough the first time, as my OCD has taken control over me, and I just had to click on any dialogue

Skyforge: Not my cup of tea.

Pathfinder Adventures: I loved this one. It was my goto game during my business trips. I spent probably more hours on it, than on PoE1 and NWN2 combined. Unfortunately, it looked like it was not commercially successful project, as the game stopped being developed, despite Paizo releasing new tabletop adventures, which were never added to the iOS game

Armored Warfare: Not my cup of tea.

Tyranny: Not played it yet, as it took some time, before it was released by Paradox on GOG. I grabbed Gold Edition already, but as with Fallout, my backlog hurts

PoE2: "Kickstarted" it, as soon as Paypal option have been opened. Got Collector's Edition and all DLCs as well. But I have decided as before to wait for the final patch to play it, and after that, whenever I pick a new game to play from my backlog, I pick something different, as Pirates are not my cup of tea, which makes it always a little bit lower priority than the other competitors. And yes, I know, it is a brilliant game, that's why I have the Collector's Edition Just be a little bit more patient, kay?

The Outer Worlds: I always knew, I would love this game, but I wanted to wait for complete edition before buying it. Shortly, after it was released, before I was able to push the BUY button, I have received by lucky coincidence a Steam gift key, but with my Steam "hatred" I think, it would be just a waste of a useful code to activate it there, so I am humbly waiting for a person, who would be willing to barter it for a GOG key.

Grounded and Pentiment: Unfortunately no GOG release yet, so I am playing a game of patience. I do not know if Grounded would be my cup of tea, but seeing some info about Pentiment, I already know, that I would enjoy it. So pretty please, with a cherry on top, dear good Microsoft and Obsidian guys, make GOG release happen. You would make one Slovak guy happy

[sorophx]

you're way too excited about Obsidian games, the perfect Obsidian fan  that's not a bad thing

[Gorth]

7 hours ago, Mamoulian War said:

KOTOR2: Played both Kotor and Kotor2. The original had better polish, but some of the usual Bioware flaws. They just never could outgrow that bad gimmick where you beat the baddie to hell and back again and then the game declares you the loser. Completely ruined my mood and made me negatively biased (when you beat Darth Jaws on the Leviathan and suddenly you somehow lost, similar the K** L*** in the ME3). Kotor2 had for me a more interesting story and vastly more interesting characters, even if it felt like more than 33% of the game was cut with a blunt object because publishers are being publishers and Obsidian fails at estimating the scope of tasks...

NWN2: Played both NWN and NWN2. Never could finish the original (since I played it as a single player game, I've heard there were some quite interesting fan made story modules). NWN2 vanilla was sort of meh, but the two expensions were awesome (disclaimer I didn't play any of the NWN expansions)

Alpha Protocol: I'm sure there is a good game in there somewhere, but the abundance of mini games was too much of a turn off (two things I hate in games, mini games and QTM's). Uninstalled after the third mini game got in the way of the story...

Fallout NV: Great game. As much as I hated Fallout III (stopped playing and uninstalled when I came to that nest of unkillable brats), I loved Fallout NV. Still to try siding with The Legion. Some interesting expansions too

Dungeon Siege III: Meh when playing it alone. Awesome with friends. Was made for co-op.

South Park TSoT: Was never into South Park. Never played the game

PoE1: Kickstarted it. Loved it. For some reason never finished a game, even if I played halfway through it half a dozen times. Paralysis by analysis?

Skyforge: Is that an Obsidian game?

Pathfinder Adventures: I don't play mobile games

Armored Warfare: Not my cup of tea either

Tyranny: For me one of Obsidians best games. Evil guys get all the girls, the money and the fun! (at least that's what the recruitment pamphlet said)

PoE2: I have the game, but for some reason always expected to finish a game of PoE before starting it

The Outer Worlds: Fun game. As long as you don't expect a triple A budget and just enjoy the quirky story and characters.

Grounded and Pentiment: Unfortunately released at a time where there is just not enough spare time to go around and a certain MMO game eats my gaming time. Pentiment doesn't seem too time consuming, so I'll probably get around to that one over Easter

Replaced the comments with my own thoughts and experiences on the various games...

[Hawke64]

On 3/20/2024 at 1:25 PM, kanisatha said:

No, never.

Given the dirth of quality fantasy RPGs to play nowadays, I've slowly become open to the idea of trying some post-apocalyptic RPGs. But for me to be willing to try them, they'd need to at least satisfy me with respect to my other major game preferences: be party-based; no first-person perspective; melee combat just as viable and effective as shooting from afar. Oh, and I'm probably not going to try a super-old game. I'm not one for wanting fancy graphics, but even I have my limits.

Recommendations?

(Looking through my Steam library for RPG games with a party in any setting). If action-RPGs (little player's agency) count, then:

• Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen.
• Dungeon Siege III has quite a lot of combat, but technically there is a party (of 2) and some decent decisions>consequences. I also have it in my Steam inventory if anyone is interested.
• There is also Ember, which was fine (amusing, but, again, quite light on dialogue options).
• Any of Spiders' games - they all (except Steelrising) were party-based action-RPGs of variable quality.
• Sword Coast Legends was fine (?). Not sure if it is still available for purchase.

There are several quite good party-based RPGs, though the combat is turn-based.

• Expeditions: Viking was good, with several outcomes and paths to victory (the PC's village not dying out). The sequel was prettier and the combat was better, but it also had more grind (may the conquest battles and random encounters be damned) and felt more shallow. In either game, the PCs' societies were not exactly pleasant, though it somehow depends on the roleplay.
• The above-mentioned Encased, Wasteland 3, and Shadowrun: Dragonfall and Hong Kong were excellent.
• Torment: Tides of Numenera.

[Wormerine]

On 3/20/2024 at 1:11 PM, sorophx said:

hot take: well done RTWP is miles above the best turn-based system, because it's happening on a computer, and we don't need every game to be a "tabletop-like". the computer can calculate everything very fast and just show me how the state changed, and it can do it continuously. I don't need to wait for the "enemy" to take its turn. it's a user experience issue rather than a fundamental combat design issue. 

It's perfectly fine to not like certain mechanic, but your post suggests that RTWP and turn-based are one and the same. "Turns" is a ruleset and has an impact on gameplay decisionmaking. Chess wouldn't be "better" if everyone moved at the same time - it would be fundamentally broken as the game is build around players taking turns with one move at the time.

I think the issue with RPGs is that they don't have particularly great combat loop to begin with - so speeding through encounters tends to be more desirable. In general, though, I do find turn-based RPGs to have better designed combat - not every turn based game, but outside Pillars of Eternity, I can think of only turn-based RPGs in which combat does suck (ignoring action-RPGs systems, like Dark Souls). But yeah, if combat requires little decisionmaking, and it is resolved based on your character build, that it would be desirable for combat to be over as soon as possible - or not be there in the first place.

[sorophx]

the issue with RPGs is they're not chess, which was my original point exactly.

[Hawke64]

12 hours ago, Wormerine said:

I think the issue with RPGs is that they don't have particularly great combat loop to begin with - so speeding through encounters tends to be more desirable. In general, though, I do find turn-based RPGs to have better designed combat - not every turn based game, but outside Pillars of Eternity, I can think of only turn-based RPGs in which combat does suck (ignoring action-RPGs systems, like Dark Souls). But yeah, if combat requires little decisionmaking, and it is resolved based on your character build, that it would be desirable for combat to be over as soon as possible - or not be there in the first place.

For random encounters without much positioning or any sort of tactics, it often feels like they should be over as soon as possible. The boss battles (with 1-2 large/very dangerous foes) usually require some strategy, have significance for the story, and are quite engaging (unless they are puzzle-like and require 1 very specific solution), but they would not feel that way without some low-effort (from the designers and the player) fights. So, yes, RTwP systems allow to speed up the later and focus on the former.