The All Things Political Topic - All people love themselves too much to be changed by something as simple as love.

[HoonDing]

[Gorth]

46 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Do you have a more positive view or negative based on overall sentiment ?

I think the simplest way I can explain is... I like Americans as a people but not America the nation state (gross oversimplification)?. I know so many great Americans, but I think their society has some issues that requires a thorough shake up and a rethink of the country and it's future, like where do they really want to go the next 100 years. Because, as it is now, it's like the old de Havilland Comet plane. A marvel of its time when it was created, like WAY ahead of anything the world had seen at the time. The "Founding Fathers" did an exceptional job in creating a resilient and robust framework for a country, but like the airplane, eventually metal fatigue keeps wearing it down and some day will do it in. Nothing lasts forever. It's not specific to any country or empire, just a fact. Change is inevitable. The interesting parts are, when will it happen and what will be in its place afterwards. Will it become a new China with a populist strongman and a giant monolithic state (and state apparatus/bureaucracy running it)? Will it become the nation of Lousiana covering much of the south, bordered by the Grand Duchy of California and the New England Republic? Will it become 52 independent countries constantly warring with each other (like Russia and Ukraine) over territorial disputes that was effectively a non issue when being one nation? Will it become a theocracy along the lines of Iran? Or a loose federation of smaller unions of states, similar to say the EU?

[Gfted1]

If I have anything to say about it, the US will become a socialist paradise. Daddy needs; UBI, UHC, UFE and UFH. Next stop, nirvana.

[Zoraptor]

Good news everybody! Anne Sacoolas, the US diplomat's wife (and active NSA agent, since promoted) who ran over and killed Harry Dunn and fled back to the US rather than face any consequences then tried to ambush his family into forgiving her along with Trump is going to be hit with a wet bus ticket via video conference link to a UK court. Funny thing being that this was the best the UK could get, as a swap for approving Navalny's extradition. How utterly pathetic is that?

Spoiler

I've decided to swap every reference to Assange and Navalny, as it's hilarious (well, 'hilarious') how similar their situations are but how differently they are portrayed. Navalny sick in jail- maximum security jail, along with Dr Hook and other literal terrorists- on trumped up charges? Obviously not the fault of the UK authorities who are just following the law, and no less than he deserves anyway, the scallywag. Lord knows why he didn't trust UK justice in the first place, his belief that he'd be extradited to the US on trumped up charges was completely unfounded. Assange sick in Russian jail? My God the humanity, sanctions if he dies, punish the perpetrators via the Hastings Magnitsky Act, let him publish what he likes, true patriot, free the new Mandela!

 

[majestic]

31 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

How utterly pathetic is that?

I'll try my hand at making a Hoonding post now.

 

[Malcador]

I thought the husband was the intelligence agent.

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

Good news everybody! Anne Sacoolas, the US diplomat's wife (and active NSA agent, since promoted) who ran over and killed Harry Dunn and fled back to the US rather than face any consequences then tried to ambush his family into forgiving her along with Trump is going to be hit with a wet bus ticket via video conference link to a UK court. Funny thing being that this was the best the UK could get, as a swap for approving Navalny's extradition. How utterly pathetic is that?

  Hide contents

I've decided to swap every reference to Assange and Navalny, as it's hilarious (well, 'hilarious') how similar their situations are but how differently they are portrayed. Navalny sick in jail- maximum security jail, along with Dr Hook and other literal terrorists- on trumped up charges? Obviously not the fault of the UK authorities who are just following the law, and no less than he deserves anyway, the scallywag. Lord knows why he didn't trust UK justice in the first place, his belief that he'd be extradited to the US on trumped up charges was completely unfounded. Assange sick in Russian jail? My God the humanity, sanctions if he dies, punish the perpetrators via the Hastings Magnitsky Act, let him publish what he likes, true patriot, free the new Mandela!

 

The two examples are not the same and to compare Assange to Navalny in  this way is not an accurate view of the 2 people 

Firstly Assange faces serious charges in the USA for undermining   the security of the US by constantly posting confidential and private diplomatic cables.  He also seems terrified of facing justice for his attacks on the US.....where did he think he would eventually end up? He was fine to target the US for years and now he has nothing to say ?

I see he faces  criminal charges that could lead to 175 years in jail, I think thats a bit harsh but 20 years in a federal prison will send a good message?

Navalny was simply an opposition political person, he didnt steal or compromise US state security but he was poisoned by the Russian agents because Putin doesnt like opposition parties  ....so yes the Navalny  poisoning is much more serious 

 

[majestic]

Look, you're not just a fascist, you're a biased fascist to boot.

[Hurlshort]

 

Jesus. This is sad. I mean, it isn't even for them to spend on themselves. They are supposed to buy classroom supplies?

South Dakota is ranked 49th in teacher salaries. 

Happyish ending: https://www.argusleader.com/story/news/2021/12/13/dash-for-cash-teachers-sioux-falls-stampede-apologize-viral-event/6494823001/

Edited December 13, 2021 by Hurlsnot

[Malcador]

28 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

 

Jesus. This is sad. I mean, it isn't even for them to spend on themselves. They are supposed to buy classroom supplies?

South Dakota is ranked 49th in teacher salaries. 

Happyish ending: https://www.argusleader.com/story/news/2021/12/13/dash-for-cash-teachers-sioux-falls-stampede-apologize-viral-event/6494823001/

Tacky as all hell having that contest.

[Zoraptor]

2 hours ago, Malcador said:

I thought the husband was the intelligence agent.

Both of them are. Though I got it around the wrong way which was which; he is NSA and was working with GCHQ in the UK, she is CIA.

(10 years later and that last clause still makes me feel compelled to mention Aiden Gillen)

[Chairchucker]

Julian Assange is a rapist and should be in a Swedish prison.

[Gorth]

3 hours ago, Hurlsnot said:

 

Jesus. This is sad. I mean, it isn't even for them to spend on themselves. They are supposed to buy classroom supplies?

South Dakota is ranked 49th in teacher salaries. 

Happyish ending: https://www.argusleader.com/story/news/2021/12/13/dash-for-cash-teachers-sioux-falls-stampede-apologize-viral-event/6494823001/

it sure made headlines around the world...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59646803

In a statement, the Sioux Falls Stampede and the CU Mortgage Direct bank said: "Although our intent was to provide a positive and fun experience for teachers, we can see how it appears to be degrading and insulting towards the participating teachers and the teaching profession as a whole.

"We deeply regret and apologise to all teachers for any embarrassment this may have caused."

...

Each teacher received at least $500, they said, adding that the teachers were each "profiled and introduced prior to the event". They will each now receive another $500, and another $500 will be given to the other 21 teachers who were not selected.

 

Sorry my ass. Wanna bet the only thing they're sorry about, is the PR backlash?

[BruceVC]

5 hours ago, majestic said:

Look, you're not just a fascist, you're a biased fascist to boot.

Come on you can do better than that because it sounds like you are calling me a fascist for giving an opinion but you cant actually spend 2 minute explaining your point and why Im a fascist .....dont you see how silly it sounds 

I am not sure if I   ever told you  I use to  do debating  at school and its a such a relevant subject because it teaches you the art of meaningful and important debate and its a skill you use your whole life to engage with people. And one of several things you learn in debating is you convince people your point is true when you present why its true.

So going forward please try to do that, just explain why Im a fascist based on what I say because then we can engage further in the art of debate 

 

 

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, Chairchucker said:

Julian Assange is a rapist and should be in a Swedish prison.

Interestingly enough because he has such little respect for the entire Swedish legal system he claimed if he went back to Sweden it would be for false reason and he would be " extradited illegally "to the USA so he ignored his bail conditions and illegally moved into the Ecuadorian embassy and then I believe the Swedish prosecutors have dropped the charges because he spent years living in the embassy.

And I wish I could say " yes he is guilty of rape " but I dont know if he did rape those women but that is exactly why he should have used the powers of the legitimate legal system and addressed this charges. 

And his supporters always ignore his behavior and justify it because " being sent to the US is like a death sentence for Assange " ....give me a break !!! The EU has this real and at times frustrating laws that says " no one can ever be  extradited to a country with the death penalty " so Assange is never going to be executed in the US as its jail time he faces 

But finally this idea a country like Sweden would be involved in this entire fabricated and surreptitious rape charges is the main reason how Assange is such a liar and disingenuous. Even amongst the highly respected and well run Scandinavian countries  Sweden is considered the most progressive and I would like to hear from our Swedish forum members like @Pidesco and @Azdeus if in Sweden this type government corruption is normal where state prosecutors lie about charges to falsely prosecute people for political agendas?

I might be wrong and maybe this is more normal than we think in Sweden ?

 

 

  

[Gromnir]

just a reminder o' what trump is selling his base

fear by way o' the most boldfaced lies imaginable.

oh, and bruce, don't strawman so much. keep is mind is Gromnir who kept warning folks before and after 2016 that the trump base fears couldn't be dismissed 'cause even if you think they is foolish, they were genuine. call "policies" is hardly meaningful. working class rust belt mid westerners and red state southerners were afraid o' lost/losing manufacturing jobs, and trump promised he would return those jobs to americans, as if such were possible save on extreme small scale. evangelicals has been perpetual afraid o' the threat posed by liberals embrace o' the rainbow flag and abortion. the same white and working class americans who believe they has been disenfranchised the last +decade is afraid that their culture and future is being threatened or somesuch. just because trump is selling fear does not mean the fears is unreal.  fear of minorities and progressives and fake news? doesn't do democrats much good if they point and laugh at republican voter stoopidity if those same stoopid people is voting. 

the fear and grievance is real even if is based on lies. trump success in selling fear and grievance is real even if he keeps telling lies to achieve success. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps abortion, whether you like or not, is real. is one reason why it doesn't matter to a few evangelicals what trump does or says. if you believe unborn babies is being murdered and you recognize democrats and libs support a right to abortion, then almost any alternative is preferable. trump could do near anything, no matter how vile, and for many evangelicals it won't matter 'cause on the other side o' the balance is the murder o' innocent and unborn children. not gonna "fix" this with education or empathy or any other reasonable approach. as long as there is a candidate on the opposite side o' the pro choice position, many evangelicals will aggressive support such a person, even when those evangelicals is aware the anti-abortion candidate is a depraved fearmonger. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Gromnir

[Malcador]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/kentucky-tornado-factory-workers-threatened-firing-left-tornado-employ-rcna8581

American work culture is great.

[Pidesco]

As I heard it "right to work" actually means "right to die while working".

 

Generally speaking labor law in the US appears to be a joke played on American workers, but a significant percentage of them appear to be fine with it. But that's what you get with basically 100 years of stoking anti union sentiment.

Now, it's not like labor laws in Europe are a wonderful panacea to all of the workers' problems, but at least they are not a trash fire being revered on an altar by a bunch of people who are being slowly poisoned and killed by the fumes.

[rjshae]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/kentucky-tornado-factory-workers-threatened-firing-left-tornado-employ-rcna8581

American work culture is great.

Don't generalize based on what appears to be a sweatshop work environment.

[Gromnir]

4 hours ago, Pidesco said:

As I heard it "right to work" actually means "right to die while working".

 

Generally speaking labor law in the US appears to be a joke played on American workers, but a significant percentage of them appear to be fine with it. But that's what you get with basically 100 years of stoking anti union sentiment.

Now, it's not like labor laws in Europe are a wonderful panacea to all of the workers' problems, but at least they are not a trash fire being revered on an altar by a bunch of people who are being slowly poisoned and killed by the fumes.

law ain't the problem, 'least not they way some people appear to believe. is US and KY laws which s'posed prevent the kinda thing described in the linked article, which is precise why management is insisting it didn't happen the way employees claim it did. however, if your employees is poor, uneducated, have suspect proof o' citizenship, etc., then chances are as a practical matter is ok to treat your employees like sh!t even if doing so is illegal. 

assume for a moment no tornado actual hit the building-- just another false alarm tornado warning which happens frequent in various parts o' the US.  week elapses, maybe ten days, and imagine more than a few o' the folks who left work w/o supervisor approval are fired, ostensible for reasons not related to leaving work. now what? the fired employees is gonna hire lawyers to try and get management to give 'em back their sh!tty jobs?

is less a law problem than a culture issue. try and make people care 'bout workers at mayfield consumer products, or any one o' hundreds o' poultry processing facilities or thousands o' business which require low skill labour and subject employees to grueling conditions. 

is also simplistic to think US management is always populated by evil capitalists who care nothing 'bout workers, but they is in the unenviable position o' trying to keep businesses running when efforts to automate production is villainized as antiworker while simultaneous needing compete 'gainst foreign manufacturers where labor costs is a fraction o' what is bare minimums in the US. low skill manufacture and production is not like service industries, and is hardly an ez way to make a buck. if management is evil is in part 'cause the current system makes evil far more likely to produce positive quarter reports.

laws ain't gonna fix core problems. we already got the laws to prevent what happened at  mayfield.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Maedhros]

https://www.businessinsider.com/congress-stock-act-violations-penalties-consequences-2021-12?r=US&IR=T

Rules for thee and not for me

[Achilles]

On 12/14/2021 at 2:12 PM, Gromnir said:

if management is evil is in part 'cause the current system makes evil far more likely to produce positive quarter reports.

I wish more people understood this

[BruceVC]

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/12/donald-trump-anti-semitism-jews-israel

Quite an anti -semitic rant by Trump, unusual he gets this careless ?

Edited December 19, 2021 by BruceVC

[majestic]

Quote

I’ll tell you the Evangelical Christians love Israel more than the Jews in this country. It used to be that Israel had absolute power over Congress and today I think it’s the exact opposite, and I think [Barack] Obama and [Joe] Biden did that.

Uhm. I've seen the argument that the US is run by the Joos pretty often in neo-nazi circles, but that's certainly new. Am I reading this wrong is or Trump lamenting that a foreign nation no longer runs the US Congress? That seems... odd, to say the least.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, majestic said:

Uhm. I've seen the argument that the US is run by the Joos pretty often in neo-nazi circles, but that's certainly new. Am I reading this wrong is or Trump lamenting that a foreign nation no longer runs the US Congress? That seems... odd, to say the least.

To be honest, I have no idea. I think he's lamenting the fact that US Jews tend to be less favorable to Israel than Evangelicals (which to be honest isn't saying much because Evangelicals are crazy), but who knows for sure? I doubt even he knows.