Coronavirus : Country readiness

[Azdeus]

I think I remember reading that the EU is looking into tracking people via cellphones to "help understand" how the virus spreads.

[ShadySands]

After having to go to the grocery store a few times since this happened I think a lot of people just don't get it or don't care. Especially older folks who seem to have a harder time following the general recommendations.

I've been telling my wife that it seems like people who seem to be over 55-60 seem to really be struggling with distancing and sneezing, coughing, and touching their face and everything else around them. She thought I was exaggerating but I just pointed to her mom as an example because we're struggling to get her to conform even though she's afraid of catching it. She went to the store for the first time last night and saw the same thing and how egregious it is. 

Maybe that's just a local issue but I somehow doubt it.

[Zoraptor]

Even if you're trying to be careful you're battling a bunch of near autonomic functions constantly. It's like watching politicians and experts advising people not to shake hands and then shaking hands at the end of the press conference- it's just done automatically unless you're actively concentrating on not doing it. Which you can't do all the time, especially if stressed. Most people would touch their faces hundreds of times a day without any conscious thought and it really is hard to stop doing it because you have to actively think not to do it, and if you're shopping there are a lot of distractions. I'll go shopping on Monday and I'll likely forget to be careful at some point and that despite having done some relevant training.

I guess some people will actively be being knobs about things, but most people simply won't be able to concentrate all the time on not doing multiple things that they usually do without thinking about.

Edited March 28, 2020 by Zoraptor

[Hiro Protagonist]

A short 5 ½ minute video with a doctor showing what's it like in one of the hospitals in NY. This was a couple of days ago but things are probably worse.

Some points from the video:
refrigerated truck for the dead bodies
person in car accident came into emergency and his chest scan showed symptoms of covid-19. First responders/civilians at a scene of an accident may not know a person is infected.
Not enough equipment including N95 masks

 

 

[Gromnir]

26 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

 

Maybe that's just a local issue but I somehow doubt it.

would be nice if it were a denver thing.

so denver is buckwheats? bad enough, but our experience suggests it is a bit more widespread.

in another post we mentioned how our older family members were not taking this situation serious. referenced two aunts specific. the 82-year old lives in midwest. the 79-year old lives in socal.

...

y'know, for driver training classes in US high schools, students is shown blood on the pavement and similar such films to try and drive home the scope o' dangers from driving when st00pid. such lessons is having admitted limited and short-term impact on teens, but short-term may be enough in this situation. am knowing this sounds like a cruel solution, but am thinking it might be worth showing film o' people suffering from severe respiratory distress to, well, everybody. if you have ever watched somebody die as they struggle to breathe, chances are it had an impact 'pon you. am knowing film ain't same as in-person viewing a friend or loved one die from pulmonary embolism or similar, but am thinking far too many do not yet comprehend what it is they are facing, not the reality of it.

the following is gonna be a bit graphic, so please do not read if you are sensitive to such descriptions

Spoiler

our experience suggests when you are older you do not particular fear death, but suffering is a different matter. even old folks fear suffering. with overrun medical facilities being increasing common, am suspecting comfort options to ease those suffering in their passing is gonna diminish. put people in medical induced comas when there is no hope is gonna be an option for the "lucky." too many is gonna be triaged and will literal die in crowded hospital hallways surrounded not by family and loved ones, but by the sounds o' many similar nameless and hopeless cases gasping out their last breaths.   

once saw a tuberculosis outbreak overwhelm a reservation medical facility. when we were asked for help in attempting to get federal aid, we mentioned how we were a First Amendment attorney and didn't have the kinda connections which would prove useful. the facility administrator asked us to see what the "hospital" were facing with insufficient resources and too many patients.

am s'posing is some instinct which follows us from womb to death, but regardless o' age or gender, many o' the delirious suffering as they lingered at death's door would be attempting to call out to their mother between laboured breaths. stacked hallways o' gasping people crying out for mom is a terrible sound. 

we tried to help. couldn't not help once we saw and heard.

such stories do not make it into newspapers. such stories is, we suspect, gonna be increasing common even if only health care workers see the reality.

regardless, am doubtful shady's experience is anything other than the norm as we see it here and am knowing our family, spread 'cross the country, is replicating the indifference o' the older generations to warnings 'bout the need for social distancing.

people clear don't get it, not yet.

 

[injurai]

8 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Even if you're trying to be careful you're battling a bunch of near autonomic functions constantly. It's like watching politicians and experts advising people not to shake hands and then shaking hands at the end of the press conference- it's just done automatically unless you're actively concentrating on not doing it. Which you can't do all the time, especially if stressed. Most people would touch their faces hundreds of times a day without any conscious thought and it really is hard to stop doing it because you have to actively think not to do it, and if you're shopping there are a lot of distractions. I'll go shopping on Monday and I'll likely forget to be careful at some point and that despite having done some relevant training.

I guess some people will actively be being knobs about things, but most people simply won't be able to concentrate all the time on not doing multiple things that they usually do without thinking about.

Not sure if you've heard of the extended phenotype, it's a very important concept in evolutionary biology and Dawkins himself has dedicated a book to it. What you're describing very much sounds like what one would describe as an extended autonomic system, which is a concept I've never really put together before. From head nod up for friends, and down for strangers, basically compulsory behaviors that exist only between people or in the social structures at large.

 

[Raithe]

NYTimes - Medical expert who corrects Trump is now the target of the far right

 

At a White House briefing on the coronavirus on March 20, President Trump called the State Department the “Deep State Department.” Behind him, Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, dropped his head and rubbed his forehead.

Some thought Dr. Fauci was slighting the president, leading to a vitriolic online reaction. On Twitter and Facebook, a post that falsely claimed he was part of a secret cabal who opposed Mr. Trump was soon shared thousands of times, reaching roughly 1.5 million people.

A week later, Dr. Fauci — the administration’s most outspoken advocate of emergency measures to fight the coronavirus outbreak — has become the target of an online conspiracy theory that he is mobilizing to undermine the president.

That fanciful claim has spread across social media, fanned by a right-wing chorus of Mr. Trump’s supporters, even as Dr. Fauci has won a public following for his willingness to contradict the president and correct falsehoods and overly rosy pronouncements about containing the virus.

 

An analysis by The New York Times found over 70 accounts on Twitter that have promoted the hashtag #FauciFraud, with some tweeting as frequently as 795 times a day. The anti-Fauci sentiment is being reinforced by posts from Tom Fitton, the president of Judicial Watch, a conservative group; Bill Mitchell, host of the far-right online talk show “YourVoice America”; and other outspoken Trump supporters such as Shiva Ayyadurai, who has falsely claimed to be the inventor of email.

Many of the anti-Fauci posts, some of which pointed to a seven-year-old email that Dr. Fauci had sent praising Hillary Clinton when she was secretary of State, have been retweeted thousands of times. On YouTube, conspiracy-theory videos about Dr. Fauci have racked up hundreds of thousands of views in the past week. In private Facebook groups, posts disparaging him have also been shared hundreds of times and liked by thousands of people, according to the Times analysis.

One anti-Fauci tweet on Tuesday said, “Sorry liberals but we don’t trust Dr. Anthony Fauci.”

The torrent of falsehoods aimed at discrediting Dr. Fauci is another example of the hyperpartisan information flow that has driven a wedge into the way Americans think. For the past few years, far-right supporters of President Trump have regularly vilified those whom they see as opposing him. Even so, the campaign against Dr. Fauci stands out because he is one of the world’s leading infectious disease experts and a member of Mr. Trump’s virus task force, and it is unfolding as the government battles a pathogen that is rapidly spreading in the United States.

It is the latest twist in the ebb and flow of right-wing punditry that for weeks echoed Mr. Trump in minimizing the threat posed by the coronavirus and arguably undercut efforts to alert the public of its dangers. When the president took a more assertive posture against the outbreak, conservative outlets shifted, too — but now accuse Democrats and journalists of trying to use the pandemic to damage Mr. Trump politically.

 

“There seems to be a concerted effort on the part of Trump supporters to spread misinformation about the virus aggressively,” said Carl Bergstrom, a professor of biology at the University of Washington who has studied misinformation.

Adding that Dr. Fauci is bearing the brunt of the attacks, Mr. Bergstrom said: "There is this sense that experts are untrustworthy, and have agendas that aren’t aligned with the people. It’s very concerning because the experts in this are being discounted out of hand.”

[Raithe]

Mashable - Medical Fetish store donates disposable Scrubs to hospital to help ease strain

[ComradeYellow]

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-03-29/trumps-coronavirus-blunders-help-china

Go China Go!  (I will continue to root for China until Western leaders and their supporters stop progressing towards unapologetic fascism).

[Volourn]

Whines about facism.. supports China... LMAO

 

Remember, China is the country that has full control of the situation to the point that they opened up theatres... just to close them up again.  This mess is 100% their fault. PERIOD.

[ktchong]

Humanity is the real virus of the planet.

The coronavirus is just Earth's antibody and immune response, attempting to fight off the infection = humans.

Hopefully Earth's next antibody and attempt will be more successful and kill off at least 50% of the human population on the planet.

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2020 by ktchong

[Volourn]

The earth isn't healing. It was never sick.

[Rubarbarian]

 

Edited March 29, 2020 by Rubarbarian

[ktchong]

 

And here is why Indians don't get the coronavirus:

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2020 by ktchong

[ComradeYellow]

2 hours ago, Volourn said:

Whines about facism.. supports China... LMAO

 

Remember, China is the country that has full control of the situation to the point that they opened up theatres... just to close them up again.  This mess is 100% their fault. PERIOD.

Western capitalism is dependent on Communist countries to provide raw materials to create products that benefit humanity.  When Western countries start using raw corporate power to crush leftist countries, it is the definition of fascism.

[Katphood]

50 minutes ago, ktchong said:

 

And here is why Indians don't get the coronavirus:

 

 

 

I'd never drink cow urine, cat urine on the other hand...

 

Could work. Is all am sayin' ...  

[Gromnir]

~15 years past, the west nile virus hit bird populations in north america. crows were particular susceptible. in one year, crow population is estimated to have fallen by 30%. overall, during entire west nile virus period of 'bout 5 years, the crow population in na dropped 60%-80%. 

the crows had it coming.

currently, there is a fungus which is spreading 'mongst amphibians. already 501 species o' frogs and salamanders has been wiped out... wiped out as in gone from the world never to be seen again save in photos and textbooks n' such.

ever met a salamander who didn't deserve to die?

+99% of species which has ever existed has been murderized by mother nature. mother nature doesn't care about you anymore than she cares 'bout salamanders or crows or dinosaurs or woolly mammoths. mother nature will, one day, end you with the pathological indifference o' a serial killer. 

viruses ain't some kinda punishment for transgression against nature or god or whatever. even if you see some kinda population control function as an explanation for the existence o' viruses, the pathogens is utter indiscriminate. nature takes such a long view that human conceits such as punishment and justice is incompatible with her goals.

if there is a reason, then there is an opportunity for control. change behaviors and offer a few more virgin sacrifices to the gods will be your prophylactic 'gainst doom. sure, there is ways to combat virus spread and symptoms. we need not stand idle and surrender to fate, but pretend like all the death and suffering has meaning is foolishness. 

and if Gromnir is wrong and viruses is some kinda punishment from nature, then am gonna go out and buy as many plastic straws we can afford and set 'em ablaze in a grand bonfire with the most environmental harmful fuel source available to us. #$%& you mother nature. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited March 29, 2020 by Gromnir

[Bartimaeus]

[algroth]

5 hours ago, ktchong said:

Humanity is the real virus of the planet.

The coronavirus is just Earth's antibody and immune response, attempting to fight off the infection = humans.

Hopefully Earth's next antibody and attempt will be more successful and kill off at least 50% of the human population on the planet.

 

 

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/im14andthisisdeep/

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

That's an insult to young teens.

[Katphood]

Thomas Schäfer, the finance minister of the state of Hesse(Germany) commits suicide:

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thelocal.de/20200329/german-minister-commits-suicide-due-to-coronavirus-worries/amp

 

Most people are worried for their own lives, this guy was worried for the future of his country...

 

Rest in peace. 

Edited March 30, 2020 by Katphood

[Volourn]

"Western capitalism is dependent on Communist countries to provide raw materials to create products that benefit humanity.  When Western countries start using raw corporate power to crush leftist countries, it is the definition of fascism. "

 

Western countries were doing just fine before having to deal with  Communist countries. Don't blame the West for  Comminist countries treating their citizens even worse than the West does.

 

P.S. That guy is a coward. He didn't care about anyone but himself. I feel bad for his family and friends, and feel pity for him but he was a coward who gave up - the definition of cowardice.

[ktchong]

 

[BruceVC]

11 hours ago, ComradeMaster said:

Western capitalism is dependent on Communist countries to provide raw materials to create products that benefit humanity.  When Western countries start using raw corporate power to crush leftist countries, it is the definition of fascism.

One of the positive outcomes I hope to see at the end of this virus in a new world that has recovered from the egregious  health and economic consequences is a vast reduction to lazy, repetitive and inaccurate fake news or just people repeating baseless conspiracy theories

I am not referring to you as we have had chats about your views and what you mean but I mean for example people denying certain irrefutable facts about this virus and how it spread 

For example there are 2 irrefutable facts about this virus that we have discussed before but just to reiterate 

• Its genesis is from the China,  its comes from the exotic wildlife markets. It was never the intention to create or spread the virus of the Chinese government but that doesn't change the facts. The Chinese government did know about how these types of viruses can spread from animals to humans and have only now closed down their exotic animal markets
• The Chinese government mishandled the initial outbreak in Wuhan for the first month and one of there failures was not providing all the information accurately they knew about the virus or the local Chinese provincial leadership denied its true danger.  Anyway that meant the world was about 4 weeks behind the actual nature of  this virus.  China has subsequently addressed this  and does have an effective strategy to stop the spread which they are happy to share and do share with the global community, China is also offering resources to help countries and countries like South Africa are prudently utilizing the Chinese assistance 

But China has a real responsibility around the creation and spread  of this virus which shouldn't and cannot be denied. This doesnt absolve any specific government of not following the CDC and WHO advice and approach to dealing with the spread and having resources like PPE  for there healthcare people 

Edited March 30, 2020 by BruceVC

[BruceVC]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/26/sweden-keeps-schools-borders-open-huge-experiment-virus/

 

Sweden is keeping there schools and some restaurants open.....very interesting choice...I wouldnt take the risk