What is your worst single-class in Deadfire?

[lonelornfr]

the problem is some people want 'effective' classes, other interesting/fun to play. An effective class can be boring to play and a fun one not optimal.

 

Sure a rogue can be powerfull, but the ability tree is really weak. What the point to have 5 attack abilities (7as single) with a prohibitive cost compared to other classes? Impossible to find some interesting abilities that fit the rogue? Why a cost 2 for a simple smoke cloud with 1 infliction? Same cost as an upgraded one, so upgrade isn't an option but is mandatory. But why have to buy smoke veil before since the 2 are different skills?

So yeah, rogue do lot of dmg, gambit is OP, but between cripple strike/escape and gambit, you have lot of options both unfun and non optimal.

 

You do have some points and it's been discussed in many threads. The rogue skill tree could use an overhaul. But i think they're actually already very fun to play with due to their very high mobility and their ability to turn invisible. I'm micro-ing my rogue a lot more than my warrior tank who just "stands there".

[Verde]

Rogues are top tier class PoE2 imho, whereas there were bottom in PoE1.

 

1. Single they are backstabbing, crit DPS maniacs, with a huge bump to utility with the new per encounter system.

 

2. Multi they are extremely versatile.

 

3. They are critical for dungeon diving.

 

I'm gonna say Ranger, but I don't think it's a huge gap.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Verde

[Takkik]

you're right lonelornfr, rogue make a great multiclass class, because everything you're describing is unlocked at PL 1-3. Just escape + crippling strike + veil is self sufficient, and rogue have good passives. But between this and PL 8... The gameplay doesn't become more interesting as you advance in level, it's stay the same thing until the end.

 

I find that lot of classes have poor PL 6-7. Cipher? All good spells are PL 8-9, PL 7 feel very bad. Lot of classes have the OP jocker at PL 8-9 that make other abilities 'useless' in most fight.

 

One thing I hate about cipher and that make no sense in Deadfire : Cipher can't self buff. With valorous echo it's an issu, since the only inspiration the Cipher can get is random and at later PL (outside of the other 2 debuff/buff that come later). In Deadfire inspiration don't stack, but most other classes can self buff (barbarian, monk, fighter, wizard, priest etc...), so on who do you use this ability??? Like someone said in another thread, the best cipher combo is 2 ciphers that buff each other.

Another issu like the rogue : all spells feel very similars and as you progress you just unlock more powerfull versions. Weapon summon? only at pl 8 and on someone else. No creature summon (some shadow/nightmare could make sense, or a patronus like creature, a manifestation of cipher mind). Selfbuff? limited.

[Shadenuat]

Hard to judge since after particular threshold any class makes monsters explode

 

But Ranger has least interesting skill tree. Priest also has so many great spells you'd better go dual. Esp. high level spells - heya, level 9 blind spell. Lol.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Shadenuat

[Jayngo]

OMG. I can't believe you people. How can Ranger have that many dislikes??? Out of my party of Me (Ranger), Xoti, Eder, Aloth, and the blue Orlan; I have the most kills. BY FAR. The DPS on a Ranger is sick and the aggro (is that even a thing in this game lol) my bear pulls is insane. Add to the fact that my bear hardly dies, is a bullet sponge, and knocks enemies on their tushes, should be proof enough that Ranger is not the worst class.

 

Surely you people dislike Priest more than Ranger in this game?!?

[morhilane]

Call me dimwitted, but why is ranger leading the votes? Maia with blunderbuss nearly has as much DPS as my super monk. Meanwhile, I don't think rogue is worth much except for multiclassing. :/

 

The reason is that Ranger are very passives and most players wants to mash buttons.

 

Now though, Maia's subclass is a plain bonus over default Ranger. Bonus if you use guns, default ranger feature set if you don't. On top of it, Ishi is immune to engagement which you only get if you are a Ghost Heart on a pet that last about 30 seconds.

[mjn693]

I think Ranger is the strongest single-target dps in game, but its play-style might be perceived as boring.

 

Other people may feel rangers are lacking abilities but truth is you only need Marked Prey and Wounding Shots to be effective, considering the resources are limited. Melee duel wield ranger has the highest accuracy of any melee class and hit hardest on single target. With Evasive Roll you can get to any mage or archer and insta delete them. Ranger is also especially good on boss due to accuracy and raw damages.

[Verde]

Well Rangers are simultaneously boring and too micro imho. Ranged damage? Go Rogue or Wizard or Druid. Aggro? Fighter. DPS? Again Rogue and any number of multiclass. For what it does it just doesn't seem worth it. Also Maia is one of the better characters so that might push players away from choosing a Ranger PC.

[Zeitzbach]

There really isn't much to micro on ranger. You can stand and shoot because enemies don't deal enough damage. I just leave the game running in real time, Mark, Empowered, Evasive fire if needed or spam evasive fire if it's good enough to kill.

 

The fact that people have to use multiple class in order to dwarf their power already show the class is no where near bad. They may not outright be the best in certain category but they are great in ALL of it. Buff removal, CC (Stunning shot can perma stop a boss), Ranged damage, melee damage, Single-target damage, AoE damage, Frontline tanking? Got all of it on a single char. That is already one hell of a strength. There's pretty much no bad comp with a ranger in it.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Zeitzbach

[Verde]

What Ranger builds are you running?

[Zeitzbach]

What Ranger builds are you running?

 

No sub class spec (none of them are really that good as they control your playstyle and ranger are best when they are versatile.)

 

I play with 4 con 4 resolve. Max Might, Dex and Per. The rest into int. Both Con and Resolve are kinda trash especially on ranged char. The only time you will ever receive burst damage on the range char are in ship battles and even if you have 10 cons, without armor rating, you will die anyway. If needed, just have Druid or Cipher give you Robust buff to deal with the initial burst.

 

For skills, you don't need to spec into pets at all. They scale poorly so you just use them as meat shield.

 

Get Mark + wounding shot and the talents to boost your range attack.

 

Get 2-handed weapon talent because bow and arquebus are considered 2-handed in this game and get the bonus damage from it.

 

Then get upgraded mark and accurate wounding shot and just abuse having like +35 base accuracy at low level with marksman with a good weapon.

 

After that, Evasive fire and Tranquilizer are the next 2 active skills you will grab. Evasive fire can be used to deal damage to a single-target by just spamming it (It's a spell. It scales off PL with high crit rate and no recovery time) and tranquilizer is an instant buff cleanse for pesky arcane veil and unbending tanks.

 

The final active you need is the Twin shot. You should have every possible damage boost and faster reload/recovery passive unlocked along with all bonus accuracy (marksman and +10 accuracy while health is above 50% against enemy below 50% health)

 

Use Arquebus in the early game unless you're fighting pierce immune because it has good range and damage, or use single-hand pistol if you're going for DPS instead with its modal for fast reload and single-hand bonus to cancel out the penalty.  Don't forget to use the pig from the scavenger hunt. He gives gun damage and also take off recovery time based on armor. Combined with armor that has -15% recovery passive, you actually reload faster while wearing that light armor.

 

If you can grab the 47k arquebus, probably with 50k cp blessing early, grab it and just shoot for 120-200 each hit for no effort because your acc is way too high (legendary gear, modal, acw, mark, and marksman for like +70 accuracy) and no enemies can stand a guaranteed crit shot with +50% burn damage multiplier. When you get driving flight, this also get bounced for like 75% of the damage.

 

And when you get twinshot at level 16, you unlock the potential of the 12 arrows ice bow that breaks the game it only loses to Monk overtuned DPS and T9 Druid/Wizard spells.

 

Not a single stage where you will feel ranger is that weak. If skeleton enemy with pierce immune are bothering you, go Dual-Saber, mark them and use AWS with the dual-saber. IT's a full attack that can also be used on melee. Double Saber crit will melt skeleton enemy with no effort. Or use Bow but I prefer to just smack them with Saber.

 

The moment you have that arquebus, you can have everyone in your team go on auto-pilot or even you as well. You just need to manually shoot the mages/rangers to remove any potential threat with AWS or Empowered AWS and the only reason you manually control the twin-ice bow is to maximize its AoE potential.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Zeitzbach

[Katarack21]

Disregarding subclasses make this a little more difficult, because the worst single class in the game is without doubt a Wizard Conjurer, full stop.

[Casper]

i had a seer (ranger/cipher), she played just fine. stalker and beguiler sub-classes. i guess it all depends on how you use them.

[dunehunter]

you're right lonelornfr, rogue make a great multiclass class, because everything you're describing is unlocked at PL 1-3. Just escape + crippling strike + veil is self sufficient, and rogue have good passives. But between this and PL 8... The gameplay doesn't become more interesting as you advance in level, it's stay the same thing until the end.

 

I find that lot of classes have poor PL 6-7. Cipher? All good spells are PL 8-9, PL 7 feel very bad. Lot of classes have the OP jocker at PL 8-9 that make other abilities 'useless' in most fight.

 

One thing I hate about cipher and that make no sense in Deadfire : Cipher can't self buff. With valorous echo it's an issu, since the only inspiration the Cipher can get is random and at later PL (outside of the other 2 debuff/buff that come later). In Deadfire inspiration don't stack, but most other classes can self buff (barbarian, monk, fighter, wizard, priest etc...), so on who do you use this ability??? Like someone said in another thread, the best cipher combo is 2 ciphers that buff each other.

Another issu like the rogue : all spells feel very similars and as you progress you just unlock more powerfull versions. Weapon summon? only at pl 8 and on someone else. No creature summon (some shadow/nightmare could make sense, or a patronus like creature, a manifestation of cipher mind). Selfbuff? limited.

 

Yeah the only thing interested me in mid tier is Deep Wounds and Deathblow, and you get them as multiclass rogue anyway, and not a fan of it's high tier abilities comparing to monk ones.

[Arranvin]

 

What Ranger builds are you running?

No sub class spec (none of them are really that good as they control your playstyle and ranger are best when they are versatile.)

 

I play with 4 con 4 resolve. Max Might, Dex and Per. The rest into int. Both Con and Resolve are kinda trash especially on ranged char. The only time you will ever receive burst damage on the range char are in ship battles and even if you have 10 cons, without armor rating, you will die anyway. If needed, just have Druid or Cipher give you Robust buff to deal with the initial burst.

 

For skills, you don't need to spec into pets at all. They scale poorly so you just use them as meat shield.

 

Get Mark + wounding shot and the talents to boost your range attack.

 

Get 2-handed weapon talent because bow and arquebus are considered 2-handed in this game and get the bonus damage from it.

 

Then get upgraded mark and accurate wounding shot and just abuse having like +35 base accuracy at low level with marksman with a good weapon.

 

After that, Evasive fire and Tranquilizer are the next 2 active skills you will grab. Evasive fire can be used to deal damage to a single-target by just spamming it (It's a spell. It scales off PL with high crit rate and no recovery time) and tranquilizer is an instant buff cleanse for pesky arcane veil and unbending tanks.

 

The final active you need is the Twin shot. You should have every possible damage boost and faster reload/recovery passive unlocked along with all bonus accuracy (marksman and +10 accuracy while health is above 50% against enemy below 50% health)

 

Use Arquebus in the early game unless you're fighting pierce immune because it has good range and damage, or use single-hand pistol if you're going for DPS instead with its modal for fast reload and single-hand bonus to cancel out the penalty. Don't forget to use the pig from the scavenger hunt. He gives gun damage and also take off recovery time based on armor. Combined with armor that has -15% recovery passive, you actually reload faster while wearing that light armor.

 

If you can grab the 47k arquebus, probably with 50k cp blessing early, grab it and just shoot for 120-200 each hit for no effort because your acc is way too high (legendary gear, modal, acw, mark, and marksman for like +70 accuracy) and no enemies can stand a guaranteed crit shot with +50% burn damage multiplier. When you get driving flight, this also get bounced for like 75% of the damage.

 

And when you get twinshot at level 16, you unlock the potential of the 12 arrows ice bow that breaks the game it only loses to Monk overtuned DPS and T9 Druid/Wizard spells.

 

Not a single stage where you will feel ranger is that weak. If skeleton enemy with pierce immune are bothering you, go Dual-Saber, mark them and use AWS with the dual-saber. IT's a full attack that can also be used on melee. Double Saber crit will melt skeleton enemy with no effort. Or use Bow but I prefer to just smack them with Saber.

 

The moment you have that arquebus, you can have everyone in your team go on auto-pilot or even you as well. You just need to manually shoot the mages/rangers to remove any potential threat with AWS or Empowered AWS and the only reason you manually control the twin-ice bow is to maximize its AoE potential.

That certainly sounds like an effective build. I can't help wondering however if a Scout would be more effective overall. Twinned Shots with Frostseeker are undeniably powerful, and perhaps when using that particular weapon from level 16 onwards the single class ranger can pull ahead, but prior to that a Scout (especially an assassin scout) can be hitting hard with sneak attack damage on top of accurate wounding shot, and can eventually add Deathblows and Deep Wounds to their damage. As I understand it at max level this'll add 60% sneak attack damage (more if Nature Godlike under an inspiration), a further 50% from Deathblows and 20% raw DoT on top of Wounding Shot's raw damage. And this can be triggered for 1 guile by using debilitating strike, which can then spread to other enemies through driving flight. The lower resource cost makes this more sustainable than using Twin Shot.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that single class ranger's are rubbish. I'm actually trying to decide between a ranger and a scout for my second playthrough. However, to me the only thing that seems to allow rangers to be truly powerful compared to other classes and multi-class combos is the interaction between twinned shots and Frostseeker. This seems like an issue as no class should be reliant on one item to be competitive. I know that, as you said, accurate wounding shot with the 47k arquebus is powerful, but it'll be even better with the rogue bonuses I mentioned above. Ranger isn't trash, but I do think that single class needs some sort of boost to be competitive with other classes and multi-class combos. What do you think?

[SonicMage117]

Mage

 

M - stands for magic

 

A - stands for agility

 

G - stands for guile

 

E - stands for endurance

Edited May 22, 2018 by SonicMage117

[CAlmond]

My vote goes for monk. It's not due to any kind of technical performance or balance or whatever. I just personally don't like monks and monk type classes in any of the games I've played so far. I always make one or two attempts initially, then fail badly because I just don't know how to use it.

 

The only type of monk class that I've liked is where Monk = Healer. Martial Monks usually results in me dying horribly over and over again.

[the_dog_days]

I think monks are crazy fun as tank/disrupters. Fighters (in Deadfire) play similar to monks, and as a result they're more fun to play, too.

[Zeitzbach]

 

That certainly sounds like an effective build. I can't help wondering however if a Scout would be more effective overall. Twinned Shots with Frostseeker are undeniably powerful, and perhaps when using that particular weapon from level 16 onwards the single class ranger can pull ahead, but prior to that a Scout (especially an assassin scout) can be hitting hard with sneak attack damage on top of accurate wounding shot, and can eventually add Deathblows and Deep Wounds to their damage. As I understand it at max level this'll add 60% sneak attack damage (more if Nature Godlike under an inspiration), a further 50% from Deathblows and 20% raw DoT on top of Wounding Shot's raw damage. And this can be triggered for 1 guile by using debilitating strike, which can then spread to other enemies through driving flight. The lower resource cost makes this more sustainable than using Twin Shot.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that single class ranger's are rubbish. I'm actually trying to decide between a ranger and a scout for my second playthrough. However, to me the only thing that seems to allow rangers to be truly powerful compared to other classes and multi-class combos is the interaction between twinned shots and Frostseeker. This seems like an issue as no class should be reliant on one item to be competitive. I know that, as you said, accurate wounding shot with the 47k arquebus is powerful, but it'll be even better with the rogue bonuses I mentioned above. Ranger isn't trash, but I do think that single class needs some sort of boost to be competitive with other classes and multi-class combos. What do you think?

 

 

 

One thing to take into calculation is that multi-class gets a PL every 3 levels, not 2. If we don't just skip right to max level, we can probably see why solo-ranger actually has a way better time than Scout throughout the game.  Here's the skill order for single class and compared to multi class on the ranger side

 

Lv 1 - Mark + Wounding shot                   /                Wounding shot + The other class

Lv 2 - Vicious Companion                            /                 Mark

Lv 3 - Gunner, marksman                            /                 Any

lv 4 -  2-handed weapon                              /                 Marksman + The other class

Lv 5  - Marked for hunt + AWS                 /                 Gunner

Lv 6 - Roll                                                    /                 2-handed weapon or the other class

Lv 7 - Concussive shot + Shot on the run (T2)            / AWS + The other class

Lv 8 - Bull will or Protective Companion                       / Marked for hunt

Lv 9 - Evasive fire + Driving flight                            / Roll

Lv 10 - Stalker link or whatever.                                   / Concussive shot +The other class

Lv 11 - Con Tran + Improved crit                                  / Shot on the run

Lv 12 - Survival of Fittest                                             /  Whatever

Lv 13 - Acc Emp, Dmg Emp                                       / Driving flight + The other class

Lv 14 - Pen emp                                                         / Evasive fire

Lv 15 - whatever                                                        / The other class

Lv 16 - Twinshot + Whatever                                        / Con tran + The other class

 

On paper, scout will be better at level 13 to 15 as that is when the ranger has to invest in empowered attack and on ranger, it's better to just use empowered for resource instead (unless you want to 1-shot the named-mage bosses). Which means level 13 to 15 is a blank spot with almost no growth in power outside evasive fire scaling with level.

 

But before that, they get all the pieces of the build way faster than rogue with only level 8 and 10 being a freebie choice that can lead to even more acc bonus if you use stalker link.  While you can slightly deal more damage with sneak attack, ranger is getting more accuracy and other talents to make them crit way more often too so it cancels out. And after 16, Twin Shot already happens so rogue will never catch up.

 

3 resources cost isn't a problem as I mentioned in another post where there are less than 10 fights in the entire game where you actually need to use more than 5 twinshots to end it. Majority of them being Tanky boss fights and 100+ deflection enemies (Fampyr).

[Torm51]

Also while its not the WORST Single Class in the game but Paladin Tier 8 and Tier 9 is  bad.  The passives are good but the active abilities right now just stink.  Sacred Immolation is bugged (confirmed by a QA Mod on the forums) and damages the Paladin for 43 raw damage (it was 50 in my case due to a good Might score) making it unsustainable.  This alone makes a high tier ability that could be really good into trash.  Right now there is no reason not to multiclass a Paladin.  That being said because their passives are so damn good the class is worth it, but its just plain stronger as a multiclass.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Torm51

[Arranvin]

 

That certainly sounds like an effective build. I can't help wondering however if a Scout would be more effective overall. Twinned Shots with Frostseeker are undeniably powerful, and perhaps when using that particular weapon from level 16 onwards the single class ranger can pull ahead, but prior to that a Scout (especially an assassin scout) can be hitting hard with sneak attack damage on top of accurate wounding shot, and can eventually add Deathblows and Deep Wounds to their damage. As I understand it at max level this'll add 60% sneak attack damage (more if Nature Godlike under an inspiration), a further 50% from Deathblows and 20% raw DoT on top of Wounding Shot's raw damage. And this can be triggered for 1 guile by using debilitating strike, which can then spread to other enemies through driving flight. The lower resource cost makes this more sustainable than using Twin Shot.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that single class ranger's are rubbish. I'm actually trying to decide between a ranger and a scout for my second playthrough. However, to me the only thing that seems to allow rangers to be truly powerful compared to other classes and multi-class combos is the interaction between twinned shots and Frostseeker. This seems like an issue as no class should be reliant on one item to be competitive. I know that, as you said, accurate wounding shot with the 47k arquebus is powerful, but it'll be even better with the rogue bonuses I mentioned above. Ranger isn't trash, but I do think that single class needs some sort of boost to be competitive with other classes and multi-class combos. What do you think?

 

 

One thing to take into calculation is that multi-class gets a PL every 3 levels, not 2. If we don't just skip right to max level, we can probably see why solo-ranger actually has a way better time than Scout throughout the game. Here's the skill order for single class and compared to multi class on the ranger side

 

Lv 1 - Mark + Wounding shot / Wounding shot + The other class

Lv 2 - Vicious Companion / Mark

Lv 3 - Gunner, marksman / Any

lv 4 - 2-handed weapon / Marksman + The other class

Lv 5 - Marked for hunt + AWS / Gunner

Lv 6 - Roll / 2-handed weapon or the other class

Lv 7 - Concussive shot + Shot on the run (T2) / AWS + The other class

Lv 8 - Bull will or Protective Companion / Marked for hunt

Lv 9 - Evasive fire + Driving flight / Roll

Lv 10 - Stalker link or whatever. / Concussive shot +The other class

Lv 11 - Con Tran + Improved crit / Shot on the run

Lv 12 - Survival of Fittest / Whatever

Lv 13 - Acc Emp, Dmg Emp / Driving flight + The other class

Lv 14 - Pen emp / Evasive fire

Lv 15 - whatever / The other class

Lv 16 - Twinshot + Whatever / Con tran + The other class

 

On paper, scout will be better at level 13 to 15 as that is when the ranger has to invest in empowered attack and on ranger, it's better to just use empowered for resource instead (unless you want to 1-shot the named-mage bosses). Which means level 13 to 15 is a blank spot with almost no growth in power outside evasive fire scaling with level.

 

But before that, they get all the pieces of the build way faster than rogue with only level 8 and 10 being a freebie choice that can lead to even more acc bonus if you use stalker link. While you can slightly deal more damage with sneak attack, ranger is getting more accuracy and other talents to make them crit way more often too so it cancels out. And after 16, Twin Shot already happens so rogue will never catch up.

 

3 resources cost isn't a problem as I mentioned in another post where there are less than 10 fights in the entire game where you actually need to use more than 5 twinshots to end it. Majority of them being Tanky boss fights and 100+ deflection enemies (Fampyr).

Hmmm, fair play. I'll probably give single class ranger a go for my next playthrough and see how I get on. Here's hoping that they haven't nerfed Frostseeker by then!

[evilcat]

The problem with ranger is how easly pet dies. If you cant keep that thing alive, all fancy dmg pet feats doesnt matter.

There is not enought pet defense passives for marksman. No healing factor for pet. No bonus deflection or other defenses. No bonus health for pet.

Heal companion is long cast, and overpriced.

 

Dead pet is trauma which could spoil experience with Ranger. And fact that you cant do anything about it is even worse.

Edited May 22, 2018 by evilcat

[morhilane]

The problem with ranger is how easly pet dies. If you cant keep that thing alive, all fancy dmg pet feats doesnt matter.

There is not enought pet defense passives for marksman. No healing factor for pet. No bonus deflection or other defenses. No bonus health for pet.

Heal companion is long cast, and overpriced.

 

Dead pet is trauma which could spoil experience with Ranger. And fact that you cant do anything about it is even worse.

 

Play a ghost heart!

 

But how are you getting your pet killed so much? I never got Ishiza killed outside party wipe caused by stupidity...

[Torm51]

 

The problem with ranger is how easly pet dies. If you cant keep that thing alive, all fancy dmg pet feats doesnt matter.

There is not enought pet defense passives for marksman. No healing factor for pet. No bonus deflection or other defenses. No bonus health for pet.

Heal companion is long cast, and overpriced.

 

Dead pet is trauma which could spoil experience with Ranger. And fact that you cant do anything about it is even worse.

Play a ghost heart!

 

But how are you getting your pet killed so much? I never got Ishiza killed outside party wipe caused by stupidity...

Maybe it’s cause my PC is a Paladin and I keep the pet healed. I also invest into the talent that gives it armor I have no problems with the pet getting KOed.

[Jayngo]

 

The problem with ranger is how easly pet dies. If you cant keep that thing alive, all fancy dmg pet feats doesnt matter.

There is not enought pet defense passives for marksman. No healing factor for pet. No bonus deflection or other defenses. No bonus health for pet.

Heal companion is long cast, and overpriced.

 

Dead pet is trauma which could spoil experience with Ranger. And fact that you cant do anything about it is even worse.

 

Play a ghost heart!

 

But how are you getting your pet killed so much? I never got Ishiza killed outside party wipe caused by stupidity...

 

Also, what kind of companion did you choose? I used the wolf in PoE and the bear in Deadfire. My bear has died a total of three times. Twice on full team wipes and once on his own, due to my failure to heal (I've manually healed the bear maybe twice). But I resurrected my bear and he was good to go. That thing is a tank.