[Disposition] Issues Collection Thread

[Madbird]

Are they aware of this in Obsidian team?

-Dispositions reach max level in few hours of play, in each category. Hazily. Since all are at maximum it has no sense anymore.
-Disposition between certain characters doesn't work as well.


No one noticed during beta...? Did it work at least once in the past?

[SimonTremelay]

I noticed that as well, it's so easy to take ranks in the dispositions... like I play a cleric, I lied only once in 60h of gameplay to protect one of my companions and now I'm stucked forever with one level of "Shady"... I'm not really one to complain for nothing but that seem a bit excessive.

[Madbird]

I noticed that as well, it's so easy to take ranks in the dispositions... like I play a cleric, I lied only once in 60h of gameplay to protect one of my companions and now I'm stucked forever with one level of "Shady"... I'm not really one to complain for nothing but that seem a bit excessive.

 

First choice in any Disposition automatically gives Rank 1, it appears. Considering the supposed distorded multiplicative behind the increase, you reach rank max after a half a dozen of choices.

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by Madbird

[Bjorntfh]

Whats even worse is there’s a perception check during the Bardatto family quest to see Hylea wink at you from her holy symbol you instantly get +1 full tick of Shady. Not a response triggered event, just having the perception check (which is unavoidable) causes the gain.

 

As a Kind Wayfarer I’m rather pissed at how shoddily disposition is put together. Don’t make classes rely on disposition, then have it be fundamentally broken at every level.

 

Companions (and myself) stop gaining it at all (locking it where it was) randomly, and certain dialogues give it when they don’t list that they will, in spite of enabling the tooltip to warn me.

 

It needs a full overhaul, the QA on it should be apologized for.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Bjorntfh

[yoyolll]

At level 8, after going through every district of Neketaka and gathering quests, I had maxed Shady, Stoic, Clever, Rational, Aggresive, and Cruel, and had 2 ranks in Benevolent, Honest, and Diplomatic, and +1 in Passionate.  I think soon I'll probably be +4 in all reputations, which kind of misses the point of the reputation mechanic in the first place.  I'm not going out of my way to gather rep points or anything, just playing normally and choosing whichever option makes the most sense for my evil character.

[The Sharmat]

Whats even worse is there’s a perception check during the Bardatto family quest to see Hylea wink at you from her holy symbol you instantly get +1 full tick of Shady. Not a response triggered event, just having the perception check (which is unavoidable) causes the gain.

 

As a Kind Wayfarer I’m rather pissed at how shoddily disposition is put together. Don’t make classes rely on disposition, then have it be fundamentally broken at every level.

 

Companions (and myself) stop gaining it at all (locking it where it was) randomly, and certain dialogues give it when they don’t list that they will, in spite of enabling the tooltip to warn me.

 

It needs a full overhaul, the QA on it should be apologized for.

Given how obvious the problem is I doubt QA missed it. I doubt they had much choice in the state it was released in.

[Yosharian]

Wait what? This sounds terrible.

[Ryz009]

It really doesn't help that just telling someone the truth or completing a quest gives benevolent points. My cruel/aggressive dude is also honest/benevolent because of that which is a nuisance. Thankfully he's a wizard so it's not like he loses powers or anything but it's still a bother.

[InsaneCommander]

There should be three types of reputation gains:

 

- what you do in public

- what you do with your companions without anyone else seeing (should only affect their opinions)

- when you choose "[Lie]..." you should gain a reputation that don't necessarily reflect your personality

 

The last one would increase your standing with Wael's faith if you are one of his priests and look good to companions that like shady behavior.

[Elarie]

Yeah I don't even think I've done anything cruel and I have Eder telling me I'm not a nice person and NPCs telling me not to get high and mighty because I'm a jerk. I have everything maxed except aggressive/cruel/shady which are at two. I'm only level 10. I'm sure they'll all be maxed soon.

[Whitewolfsp]

The opposites should cancel each other , so if you have 3 benevolence and 0 cruel , and you gain a point in cruel , benevolance should drop , so you end up with 2 - 0

[Aramintai]

Hey, guys, if you feel like anything is definitely a bug in the relationship system feel free to add it in this bug report:

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/99004-collective-summary-of-all-the-glaring-bugs-in-the-relationship-system/

[Zagadka]

The opposites should cancel each other , so if you have 3 benevolence and 0 cruel , and you gain a point in cruel , benevolance should drop , so you end up with 2 - 0

 

I kinda disagree. That works fine only if there are only binary opposing options instead of several combined each having their own effect. Even in sports you don't just subtract from one score. For any other purpose, you need to know what that benevolence score is, not just how it compares to cruel, or if you combine two fields...

 

Anyway, I maxed out a disposition way too quickly. I didn't even realize I was close to it.

[hippofant]

So, I used the cheat menu mod at NexusMods to look at my character's disposition points. I was playing a Goldpact Paladin at level 12 at the time, so I'd been trying to avoid Aggressive/Passionate responses.

 

I had 8 points in Aggressive, which netted me the level 1 disposition.

I had 20 points in Shady, which netted me the level 2 disposition.

And then I had 220+ points in Rational and 175+ points in Stoic, which netted me the level 4 dispositions.

 

Soooo I think the math is really really off, especially as NPCs started remarking on my character's level 2 Shadiness. It seems like the disposition point system didn't get adjusted for the fact that there's a ton more dialogue in PoE2, with a lot more forced disposition choices, whether that's from just having all the desirable options attached to dispositions (like 5 out of 6) or just having ALL dialogue options attached to dispositions. I even saw this:

 

[Yosharian]

Oh god those responses are so ****ing forced it's cringeworthy

[Slotharingia]

Yeah I noticed this too. It takes only a couple of hours to max most of them and have enough points in all to make them keep coming up in dialogue. My lowest is "cruel", which I have half full, and I can't think for the life of me how I got it, yet it's been brought up in convos multiple times. Then in spite of this, I had to suffer the most terrible interaction with the one guy downstairs im Imperial Command in The Brass Citadel talking to me like I was an utter imbecile for having benevolent, honest and passionate (I think), in spite of no doubt having way more points in shady xD

[Infiltrator_SF]

So, I used the cheat menu mod at NexusMods to look at my character's disposition points. I was playing a Goldpact Paladin at level 12 at the time, so I'd been trying to avoid Aggressive/Passionate responses.

 

I had 8 points in Aggressive, which netted me the level 1 disposition.

I had 20 points in Shady, which netted me the level 2 disposition.

And then I had 220+ points in Rational and 175+ points in Stoic, which netted me the level 4 dispositions.

 

Soooo I think the math is really really off, especially as NPCs started remarking on my character's level 2 Shadiness. It seems like the disposition point system didn't get adjusted for the fact that there's a ton more dialogue in PoE2, with a lot more forced disposition choices, whether that's from just having all the desirable options attached to dispositions (like 5 out of 6) or just having ALL dialogue options attached to dispositions. I even saw this:

 

 

This is so bad. Reputation options shouldn't be all that common and should be VERY polarazing and easy to read into.

 

They should all get toned down, but some responses should grant more points than others.

 

Case in point - You get the same amount of Cruel disposition for saying "that's the most truthful thing I heard from you" to Serafen, "You're wasting your time" to Aloth, and agreeing to kill an entire family. Those three don't carry the same weight obsidian..

[hippofant]

 

So, I used the cheat menu mod at NexusMods to look at my character's disposition points. I was playing a Goldpact Paladin at level 12 at the time, so I'd been trying to avoid Aggressive/Passionate responses.

 

I had 8 points in Aggressive, which netted me the level 1 disposition.

I had 20 points in Shady, which netted me the level 2 disposition.

And then I had 220+ points in Rational and 175+ points in Stoic, which netted me the level 4 dispositions.

 

Soooo I think the math is really really off, especially as NPCs started remarking on my character's level 2 Shadiness. It seems like the disposition point system didn't get adjusted for the fact that there's a ton more dialogue in PoE2, with a lot more forced disposition choices, whether that's from just having all the desirable options attached to dispositions (like 5 out of 6) or just having ALL dialogue options attached to dispositions. I even saw this:

 

 

This is so bad. Reputation options shouldn't be all that common and should be VERY polarazing and easy to read into.

 

They should all get toned down, but some responses should grant more points than others.

 

Case in point - You get the same amount of Cruel disposition for saying "that's the most truthful thing I heard from you" to Serafen, "You're wasting your time" to Aloth, and agreeing to kill an entire family. Those three don't carry the same weight obsidian..

 

 

You do get different amounts of points for different choices. There are minor, moderate, and greater disposition boosts, just like in PoE1. You can see them using the console command DispositionAddPoints. If it works just like in PoE1, they give you 1, 3, and 7 disposition points each, though I did not test this.

[VincentNZ]

Showing the dispositions should be a separate option in the difficulty menu. I also had some hiccups where people told me I was cruel, when I went around doing all the good things, while I decided to kill people trying to mug me once. I also have most things maxed out, because some dialogue options just appeal to me but are flagged as shady/cruel/aggressive.

 

I think these are just scripted dialogues though, and the dispostions do not really matter, right? So this is more of a fluff issue.

[Multihog]

At level 8, after going through every district of Neketaka and gathering quests, I had maxed Shady, Stoic, Clever, Rational, Aggresive, and Cruel, and had 2 ranks in Benevolent, Honest, and Diplomatic, and +1 in Passionate.  I think soon I'll probably be +4 in all reputations, which kind of misses the point of the reputation mechanic in the first place.  I'm not going out of my way to gather rep points or anything, just playing normally and choosing whichever option makes the most sense for my evil character.

Now THAT sounds like a flawed system, deeply flawed. One more reason to postpone playing PoE2 by a couple of months.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Multihog

[xzar_monty]

@Multihog: PoE1 was a great game when I did my playthrough approximately eight months after it was released. We do have a precedent.

[fireundubh]

When choosing dialogue options that reward disposition points, the player receives the same amount of disposition points regardless of whether the choice should reward a Minor or Average number of points, ultimately rewarding more disposition points than intended.
 
This issue is the result of the Minor and Average change strength components having the same value (4).

 

The Minor change strength value should probably be set to 1.
 

    {
      "$type": "Game.GameData.ChangeStrengthGameData, Assembly-CSharp",
      "DebugName": "Average",
      "ID": "71c858fe-7c4b-432a-a105-c518319eaed7",
      "Components": [
        {
          "$type": "Game.GameData.ChangeStrengthComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
          "ChangeValue": 4,
          "DisplayName": 1783,
          "FormatString": 1298
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "$type": "Game.GameData.ChangeStrengthGameData, Assembly-CSharp",
      "DebugName": "Major",
      "ID": "e19a6f92-2165-4e34-be10-c65e8de970eb",
      "Components": [
        {
          "$type": "Game.GameData.ChangeStrengthComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
          "ChangeValue": 8,
          "DisplayName": 1784,
          "FormatString": 1299
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "$type": "Game.GameData.ChangeStrengthGameData, Assembly-CSharp",
      "DebugName": "Minor",
      "ID": "54772c0d-cf3f-4589-8cab-9f3601d575c2",
      "Components": [
        {
          "$type": "Game.GameData.ChangeStrengthComponent, Assembly-CSharp",
          "ChangeValue": 4,
          "DisplayName": 1782,
          "FormatString": 1297
        }
      ]
    },

[fireundubh]

To rank up a disposition, the player must achieve the following number of points:

• Rank 1 = 4 points
• Rank 2 = 12 points
• Rank 3 = 25 points
• Rank 4 = 45 points

These thresholds are far too low relative to the number of opportunities to receive disposition points.
 
In conversations, there is an average of 233 total calls to DispositionAddPoints for each disposition. Using the change strength values in the related issue linked below, those calls roughly offer an average of 952 total points for each disposition—not excluding branching/closed-off choices. (These averages are based on raw totals.)
 
Given the number of these opportunities, the change strength values, and the low rank thresholds, the player easily and quickly levels dispositions to max rank early on, which cheapens the disposition system. The player could very well max out every disposition by the end of the game.
 
Related issue: Minor and Average disposition choices reward same disposition points

Edited May 14, 2018 by fireundubh

[fireundubh]

Suddenly my threads were merged into this singular one, and this thread can't be found in the forum...

 

Just set up an external bug tracker, Obsidian...

[Madbird]

Suddenly my threads were merged into this singular one, and this thread can't be found in the forum...

 

Just set up an external bug tracker, Obsidian...

Our threads are now in the technical support part, where people seems to report bugs. It's not intuitive at first. It's at the end of the second page.

Edit: Thank you for the work btw.

Edited May 14, 2018 by Madbird

[Amentep]

While this forum includes bug reports, it's also the best place to report balance or tuning issues, hence the merge.