Do most people really play the hardest difficulty level?

[algroth]

 

But with regards to "writing" I think it's also important to distiguish the term from sheer text or dialogue. I can see how something like Annah's romance or Deionarra may appear overwrought in Planescape: Torment yet there's a lot insinuated between the lines that makes the characters and their relationship to the protagonist far richer than what may seem in the surface.

I was referring more to the prose than the dialogue. I think it talks a lot while not saying very much in certain places, and often becomes more bloated than flowery (Ironically a common criticism of Pillars I've seen, though Pillars' prose is far more straightforward). But this can be a very subjective thing. By contrast, Annah's romance is quite understated, and even Deionarra's declarations of love and borderline obsession suit the story well.

 

 

 

The relevance of the underlying system, the loot, frequency of encounters, necessity of min-maxing etc. - none of these are necessarily more important than the story or the characters. PST had all these trappings, but it was about something else, and it did that well - so you can't say it was badly designed. It merely focused on other things.

 

Those trappings are still a massive part of the game and they perform quite poorly. If a system is in a game and you're better off minimizing your engagement with it, it's a bad system. Basically every part of PST but the dialogue and the atmosphere is mediocre to bad. I'd also criticize the story elements to be honest. It's a game, not a novel. The fact that there's not really any reason to play as anything but a max Wis/ high Int/ high Cha character unless you want to miss the vast majority of the plot is a huge flaw in an interactive medium.

 

All that said, don't get me wrong, I loved the game. It's just a very flawed gem, not the pinnacle of what a story driven game could or should be. I don't think we've reached that point yet. It's still a young medium. That said I'd argue that Mask of the Betrayer and possibly even KOTOR 2 (patched, of course) do what PST did as well or better.

 

 

 

Y'know, I really hate the "it's a game, not a novel" argument that is occasionally levied against Planescape: Torment, it's as if we were to ignore the sheer amount of choice and interactivity offered by these same branching dialogues that so often prompt these accusations - let alone the other elements that open up for interactions, or the input into the overall experience given by the audiovisual design which is all on point for its setting and intended mood and aesthetic. That a game becomes a "novel" because it employs dialogue extensively is frankly a fairly facile statement when the dialogue or prose is handled the way it is in this particular example.

 

Now I do get what you're saying though, inasmuch as it's true that there's one particular playstyle that undoubtedly yields a better experience than any other variant. Which is why I reckon that the weak combat system and dungeon design is a relevant problem and not something that is irrelevant to the game or the likes. Were these handled better, they could have offered that alternative playstyle even if the pacifist playthrough still remained the "ideal" one.

 

I will also say that I personally find the "bloatedness" of Torment's writing to be fairly overstated too. I think the text is quite often notably essential, and the cases where the game does seem to add details or interactions that don't concern the Nameless One's story in the least are few and far between. For all its amount of text I feel the game reads and feels quite naturally, like it's hardly seeking to extend its word-count the way some later Torment-inspired titles do. All the same, if you prefer KOTOR 2 or Mask of the Betrayer to it I won't really argue otherwise as they're certainly worth the mention too.

Edited April 3, 2018 by algroth

[injurai]

Likewise the bloated nature of Pillars' text I find to be non-existent. Dense and vast writing is different than unprimed-references and lore dropping which in Pillars case was not non-existent. I very much defend the read heavy nature of games, and the potential the written form has within the sphere of games.

[Katarack21]

KOTOR 2 contains what I feel to be one of the best Star Wars stories ever told, period. The game is flawed in a myriad of ways, but that is an epic and spectacular Star Wars tale.

[algroth]

Likewise the bloated nature of Pillars' text I find to be non-existent. Dense and vast writing is different than unprimed-references and lore dropping which in Pillars case was not non-existent. I very much defend the read heavy nature of games, and the potential the written form has within the sphere of games.

 

I feel it's been a bit less of a problem with each new playthrough for me, but mostly I think Pillars does have a tendency to overexpose, and that's where I see the editorial pass being needed. Amidst some particular moments that remain in my mind are most of what relates to the Grieving Mother, the meeting with the Skaenite priest where he gives us the full villain's monologue about what he plans to do with the girl he's just brainwashed, Lady Webb, and our meeting with Iovara. All the same I do feel like it's less of a problem in it than in the likes of Tyranny for example (seriously, how many times do we have to hear about how much the Disfavored and Scarlet Chorus hate one another?).

[injurai]

I very much agree with your examples, the memory of lesser lore-drops has  been plastered over as a result of with my increased understanding of the Eora. While the monologues still stick out awkwardly and feel as if not enough game content had been prepared to appropriately advanced the narrative prior to the resulting encounter. Of course I don't mine the occasional loquacious npc, just not when they are the deus ex of an arc like Lady Webb. Of course then there is Maerwald whose purpose was really only to deliver the weight of a potential demise that a watcher might suffer, which only resulted in a laborious slog of spirit-moaning and weeding through the details of past-lives that had no bearing on the story. The point had been made within seconds of that encounter. When it comes to lore drops, I actually appreciate the content, just perhaps not the artificial nature that can be jarring to tone and immersion.

Edited April 3, 2018 by injurai

[JerekKruger]

I've changed my vote to Classic. I'm enjoying the combat in the beta less and less and I think I'll play through Deadfire for the story, so I won't bother with PotD.

[wolfrider100]

I voted for Classic, and that's what I'm going to start with for Deadfire. I'm not even going to bother with Path of the Damned, but maybe on my fourth playthrough I will. 

Edited April 3, 2018 by wolfrider100

[SonicMage117]

Same. Problem for me is that once I finish a game, I unibstall it and move on to the next. This will also be the fact for Deadfire. Too many games, too little time.

[Wormerine]

Same. Problem for me is that once I finish a game, I unibstall it and move on to the next. This will also be the fact for Deadfire. Too many games, too little time.

Good for you. With every year I find it harder and harder to find games I am interested in playing. Looking at 2018 right now and beside Deadfire there is nothing. Maybe Shadow of Tomb Raider due to nostalgia, but it will be a deep, deep discount for me as I didn’t love the reboots so far. Civilization6:R&F lost my attention quicker than I expected. AAA became such a barren field of boredom.

[SonicMage117]

 

Same. Problem for me is that once I finish a game, I unibstall it and move on to the next. This will also be the fact for Deadfire. Too many games, too little time.

Good for you. With every year I find it harder and harder to find games I am interested in playing. Looking at 2018 right now and beside Deadfire there is nothing. Maybe Shadow of Tomb Raider due to nostalgia, but it will be a deep, deep discount for me as I didn’t love the reboots so far. Civilization6:R&F lost my attention quicker than I expected. AAA became such a barren field of boredom.

That's why I mainly play $15-20.00 indies, have much more quality content and better writing than AAA games. If you are into the indie market, it's not too hard to find games to be interested in because there are so many gems.

[Wormerine]

 

 

Same. Problem for me is that once I finish a game, I unibstall it and move on to the next. This will also be the fact for Deadfire. Too many games, too little time.

Good for you. With every year I find it harder and harder to find games I am interested in playing. Looking at 2018 right now and beside Deadfire there is nothing. Maybe Shadow of Tomb Raider due to nostalgia, but it will be a deep, deep discount for me as I didn’t love the reboots so far. Civilization6:R&F lost my attention quicker than I expected. AAA became such a barren field of boredom.

That's why I mainly play $15-20.00 indies, have much more quality content and better writing than AAA games. If you are into the indie market, it's not too hard to find games to be interested in because there are so many gems.

Well, if you have some recommendations I would appreciate a short Private Message:-)

[CENIC]

For the original PoE, I played on Easy first to learn the mechanics. For Deadfire I will probably start with Classic since I'm more familiar with the mechanics now.

 

On subsequent playthroughs I like Easy/Relaxed so I can get to the story choices I want to do differently quickly.

[molotov.]

Josh stated on one of the twitch Q&A that the grand majority of players play on medium and hard. Hence why the game is balanced towards the medium and hard difficult and we can find some weird events on PotD and easy difficulties.

[Teacher]

Start on Veteran/Hard, then move to PotD after figuring out everything I need to optimize a party (including quest rewards etc). That's what I always do.

[M4xw0lf]

I started Deadfire on Veteran, but for the first time ever I'm thinking about going PotD, as right now the game seems not very challenging. Well, let's see a few patches on.

[Slotharingia]

I usually play games on normal the first time, and depending upon the game go up to the hardest setting on later playthroughs. POE I had to play on the easiest setting as I had no idea at all what was going on initially, and the hardest I've played it was normal with that setting where you cannot see the aoe's (veteran I think), and I found the game kind of unbalanced because after the White March, the rest of the game was comparatively too easy, even with the scale up option on. Deadfire I'm playing on classic. I rely a lot on people who are actually good at games' guides and videos when I up difficulties xD

It's true that people who talk about games tend to be the ones that pick harder settings in general, but narrative-rich games do attract a lot of people who are more into the story aspect than anything else. I'm in a dragon age group on Facebook where a poll like this would have most people picking easy or normal, with those games being less challenging than Pillars.

[whiskiz]

Quoting myself from another post:

 

"t doesn't seem like a very important thing and maybe just for a few wannabe hardcore players, but the reason why i play the hardest difficulty is it brings out the mechanics best in a game and makes the progression that much more rewarding. You need to know how to play a game properly and use all of its mechanics - on easier difficulties there's no point in even having half the mechanics in a game, thereby dumbing it down. You never want to dumb down gameplay in a game, or have that as the only option. Which is why i believe higher difficulties are the pinnacle of a game and the reason why balancing the hardest difficulty imo is one of the most important things there is."

 

It's also funny how not many people play it, yet all the streamers that got early access like CohhCarnage and anyone else i know about, went straight to PotD difficulty.

 

Starter PotD difficulty first run on PoE 1, will be doing the same here once i get it once they have fixed/balanced PotD.

 

Can't wait.

Edited May 12, 2018 by whiskiz

[EgnLkv]

I prefer to play on hard my first playthrough and on PotD the second one no matter wich class I choose. I like to try deference tactics while playing for the first time on hard to finding an optimal way to defence the enemies with deference set of abilities,potions,gearing,weapons e.t.c

[Dorftek]

Gameplay and tactical combat is more important to me then story and exploration. So imo a great and beautiful game will become boring if combat is too easy. Sadly this is the sole reason why I couldn't finish or even start a DLC on TW3 even tho I absolutely loved the story and the world. Same with both D:OS games. Just stopped playing em on the last acts because combat became a "press one spell and win". This is ofc with the hardest settings.

 

So hopefully my two character playthrough on veteran here will be interesting enough until they fix POTD.

[falchen]

Veteran, hard in PoE1 was just right for me until the last act where I out-leveled everything - and PoE2 has that levelscaling option to help with that.

[Horrorscope]

Solid arguments about any path you take. It depends on my mood and how much I want to stay or just get through, it changes all the time. Ideally for me, it would be challenging enough where my choices of character builds can matter. Most games aren't like that anymore and my time can sometimes agree with that. It's tough all around knowing what the populace of game-players feels like moment to moment.

 

I do play some games on easy for story and speed, but to be honest, there is so much good content in TV these days a game still can't hold a candle to it. So perhaps I should rethink a little, if a game is deemed story and speed to me, maybe I should save the cash and watch a movie/series instead and leave me with just serious gaming, something other media's can't compete with.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Horrorscope

[cokane]

I'll play Vet the first time then probably every game after will be PoTD

[syphonhail]

I play on Relaxed. I do not understand Pen and Paper games math or the mechanics behind how stats interact which make PoTD impossible. For me I want to click an enemy and watch my guys battle it out and win. Letting the AI do everything for me. The current difficultly of Deadfire is perfect.

I love Isometric RPGs its my favorite genre. Fallout 1 and 2 made me fall in love, then Icewind Dale and NWN/NWN2. They were the first open world games that gave you the freedom to do what you wanted how you wanted. Then there was Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance, KOTOR and KOTOR 2. I loved them all.

Im glad to see a resurgence.  Tyranny, Wasteland 2, Shadow Run, Deadfire, Original Sin 1/2, are all excellent games.

PoE1 was the first Isometric RPG that was not enjoyable due to its extreme difficulty. Its seems like the AI ALWAYS targets the lower AC companions and kills them in 1-2 hits even on easy. So I gave up and turned on God Mode to finish the game.

Edited May 12, 2018 by syphonhail

[MrHoot]

I'm doing my first PoE 2 run on PotD. 

 

Had a few hard fights so far but nothing insurmountable (unless you include trying to do quests 3 levels above your current level which is just stupid - you wouldn't escape the dungeon of Irenicus and then immediately rush to take down The Twisted Rune in BG2).

 

I spent a lot of time with PoE 1 and made an effort to understand and exploit the new Affliction/Inspiration system as well as tailoring my characters abilities toward having synergy against at least 2 defences. 

 

I honestly don't understand how anyone could struggle with the game on anything less than Veteran though. The same was true of PoE 1. Especially people who have purported to finish games like BG/BG2 and Icewind Dale where if you played on "Normal" (which still wasn't "Core" but many people didn't even realise you could change the difficulty) there were certain encounters that were incredibly challenging. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by MrHoot

[daven]

Veteran, i usually play Normal/Hard on most games. I want it to be challenging, but not when i'm losing constantly. If it's too easy and I can beat everything without even trying then it is boring.