Josh's new suggestion for Resolve is brilliant IMHO!

[theBalthazar]

Or perhaps a... modification of speed with empower.

 

Main problem with a boost of per encounter empower is that there is no boost each level. It is 3, 10 and 20 (Because we can not partition more such a concept). Not really adapted to classical system where each point give a thing. It is more interresting for me than percentage, but not ideal.

 

Why not that :

 

Spells Empower casting speed and recovery +2 % per point.

 

3 =  -14 % Casting speed and recovery with empower.

 

18 =  +16 % Casting speed and recovery with empower.

 

Accuracy and damage are already used themselves by empower. But not the speed.

 

I am determined, I am zealous, I am motivated = faster in the critical moment (= empower).

 

Sometimes, empower also have a notion of emergency. If I use my trump card, I can potentially cast sooner (heal / Crucial action with long casting time etc.)... This can also push people to use this option more often...

Edited February 26, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Novem]

I don't like the random element of it. I'd rather it just straight up give you extra empowers, maybe through spells casted, so that I can decide which abilities to use them on. Though your suggestion of making it predictable based on how many spells have been casted is okay as well.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Novem

[IndiraLightfoot]

Heh, I'll fold. It's pretty obvious that this being random is the crux.

It seems that empowering Empower or even give us one or two more Empower is the way to go.

 

Then again, many of you guys aren't exactly sold on this in the first place.

 

From a "logical" standpoint, I can see why.

Why would Resolve empower one or two of your spells/skills?

Isn't really Resolve better suited for resisting or at least soften the blow of afflictions? That would be more fitting.

Edited February 26, 2018 by IndiraLightfoot

[dunehunter]

One idea for current Resolve system I have is:

Change the Interruption/Concentration system in this way: 

 

Old: An Interruption has 100% chance to break a layer of Concentration.

Now: An Interruption has 50% chance to break a layer of Concentraion.

 

Each point of Resolve reduce this break chance by 3%. So for a 20 Resolve player, the chance to break his Concentraion is only 20%, sounds good?

Furthermore, we can give Perception +chance to break Concentration in the same way as Resolve.

 

Problem solved.

 

Question: does this make Interruption too weak?

Answer: I don't think so because based on how many method some classes has to interrupt, for example Rooting Pain, and Blunderbuss + Interruption ability, and any Full Attack that delivers two interruptions.

Edited February 26, 2018 by dunehunter

[the_dog_days]

So, random damage/cc/duration spikes (or drops) with resolve?  I just do not see the appeal.  Josh said the strength/resolve fix was unpopular, is that true around these parts?  It seemed like everyone was just rolling with it, with the exception of the concern about how it impacted ciphers (who needed help to begin with) and some multiclass characters.  

 

The Might-to-Strength swap (I call it a swap, because it wasn't a fix) is unpopular. However, the reaction here was far more mild than elsewhere.

[IndiraLightfoot]

@dunehunter: In addition - it does fit the concept of Resolve well.

 

Perhaps we could use my idea of softening afflictions and dunehunter's idea - that would make Resolve juicy for several classes and fitting enough, no?

Edited February 26, 2018 by IndiraLightfoot

[the_dog_days]

One idea for current Resolve system I have is:

Change the Interruption/Concentration system in this way: 

 

Old: An Interruption has 100% chance to break a layer of Concentration.

Now: An Interruption has 50% chance to break a layer of Concentraion.

 

Each point of Resolve reduce this break chance by 3%. So for a 20 Resolve player, the chance to break his Concentraion is only 20%, sounds good?

Furthermore, we can give Perception +chance to break Concentration in the same way as Resolve.

 

Problem solved.

 

I still can't figure out who the threshold to interrupt is so low given how long the cast times were originally. :/

[dunehunter]

@dunehunter: In addition - it does fit the concept of Resolve well.

 

Perhaps we could use my idea of softening afflictions and dunehunter's idea - that would make Resolve juicy for several classes and fitting enough, no?

 

Well let's make a seperate thread and see how beta backers like our idea?

[Novem]

By the way, on the roleplaying side, I'd just like to mention I liked the split between Might and Resolve for roleplaying reasons and I hope that in interactions our mage's aren't going to be doing strong man stuff. I think one way to resolve this outside the attribute system would be have Strength and something related to spellcasting power or knowledge used instead in the passive skills system. For all I know this might already be a thing of course (I've only played the beta through twice and there are only a few CYOA sequences). I just felt the need to point this out.

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

@dunehunter: In addition - it does fit the concept of Resolve well.

 

Perhaps we could use my idea of softening afflictions and dunehunter's idea - that would make Resolve juicy for several classes and fitting enough, no?

 

Well let's make a seperate thread and see how beta backers like our idea?

 

Yeah, let's!!

 

...and done!

[CottonWolf]

To be honest, and I'm clearly in the minority, I really like the random empower/disempower idea, but I'm an irreverate gambler and love luck stats in games. It makes a lot of sense from an RP perspective, and it clearly disinguishes it from the other stats. Even if the expectation in damage/healing decrease/increase between MIG and RES were roughly equal it would be a much higher variance strategy, which I like, but evidently most don't.

Edited February 26, 2018 by CottonWolf

[Madscientist]

Sorry, but I do not like it when stats produce a random effect, especially if we do not know how empowers changes an ability exactly and some abilities profit much more from empower than others.

 

If they want random effects, they should add a class like the wild mage from BG2. Actually that might be a good idea for beraths blessing (new game+ option). When replaying you can select the option: All active abilities have a x% chance to produce a random effect.

Cast minor healing and get fully healed and your used resources back or try to summon a skelleton and you get a dragon who attacks everything, enemies and allies.

 

Regarding resolve and concentration I liked PoE1 and I see no reason to add a complicated system with different layers of concentration and how stats influence it.

[Wormerine]

To be honest, and I'm clearly in the minority, I really like the random empower/disempower idea, but I'm an irreverate gambler and love luck stats in games. It makes a lot of sense from an RP perspective, and it clearly disinguishes it from the other stats. Even if the expectation in damage/healing decrease/increase between MIG and RES were roughly equal it would be a much higher variance strategy, which I like, but evidently most don't.

It’s not that I don’t like randomness - but system which asks you to choose between reliable advantage and unreliable advantage is not great. Lower damage, accuracy, health or speed is something you can plan for. An action getting randomly “depowered” is not - it isn’t playing with chances, like rest of the dice rolls - it’s getting boosted, screwed without much control or planning on your side.

 

As Madscientist said: having a “Wild” character is not a bad thing. However, as one of main attributes I just don’t feel it fits the overall design.

[MaxQuest]

a bit stretched. What prevents the designers to give the boss a few legit empowers so the boss could spam them? Can you confirm enemies use empower at all?

I didn't see enemies using empower.

What I meant though is: imagine a dragon who randomly procs empower several times in a row (due to high resolve). Or think of Deadfire variant of Adra Dragon who would randomly get her aoe breath empowered; and if usually it would leave your tank at 20% (and you could heal-up), now it would kill him. It's not really satisfying if such random happens against us; and it's not really feeling deserved when it happens in our favor.

 

Since this is new suggestion, and many encounters are probably already designed, such change would require re-iteration and re-balancing of majority of enemies with low and high resolve scores. Although there could also be complaints for having backline squishie one-shotted by a randomly-empowered necrotic lance, by an enemy with just 11 resolve.

 

---

Btw, do I understand it right that this "+% random chance to empower" was thought to fit into current STR/RES system, and resolve would have 4 effects?: +1 deflection, +3% healing, +3% spell damage, +x% chance to empower?

 

Edit: have moved a few quick alternative suggesions here.

Edited February 26, 2018 by MaxQuest

[Wormerine]

Btw, do I understand it right that this "+% random chance to empower" was thought to fit into current STR/RES system, and resolve would have 4 effects?: +1 deflection, +3% healing, +3% spell damage, +x% chance to empower?Edit: have moved a few quick alternative suggesions here.

From what I understand, they want to return to might. Random chance to empower is an attempt to give some value to resolve. The end of Josh post:

 

“ If this design does not pan out, we are likely to revert to Pillars I Might/Resolve.”

 

Suggest to me they they are set on ditching strenght, no matter what.

[JerekKruger]

Yeah, that's how I read it. Naturally this makes me happy 

[JFutral]

Heh, I'll fold. It's pretty obvious that this being random is the crux.

It seems that empowering Empower or even give us one or two more Empower is the way to go.

 

Then again, many of you guys aren't exactly sold on this in the first place.

 

From a "logical" standpoint, I can see why.

Why would Resolve empower one or two of your spells/skills?

Isn't really Resolve better suited for resisting or at least soften the blow of afflictions? That would be more fitting.

 

Hey, I don't mind the randomness, either. If it is not any different than a weapon's randomness, then as far as I am concerned it puts spell casters, especially Wizards, on par with fighter types. Spell casters needed a boost. Resolve as a way to affect spells makes far more sense then Strength.

 

But I didn't mind Might, as along as it does not directly mean physical Strength. Parsing Strength out from Might made a ton of sense in terms of spell casters, imho. A specialist spell caster is not spending much of his time learning weapons, his weapons are his spells.

 

I definitely think Resolve should affect concentration.

 

But, whatever, really. I'll figure out the game one way or another. Random, static, per rest, per combat—as long as the game is fun, it's all good. IMHO, none of those qualities intrinsically precludes a fun game, just how they are implemented.

 

Joe

[dunehunter]

 

a bit stretched. What prevents the designers to give the boss a few legit empowers so the boss could spam them? Can you confirm enemies use empower at all?

I didn't see enemies using empower.

What I meant though is: imagine a dragon who randomly procs empower several times in a row (due to high resolve). Or think of Deadfire variant of Adra Dragon who would randomly get her aoe breath empowered; and if usually it would leave your tank at 20% (and you could heal-up), now it would kill him. It's not really satisfying if such random happens against us; and it's not really feeling deserved when it happens in our favor.

 

Since this is new suggestion, and many encounters are probably already designed, such change would require re-iteration and re-balancing of majority of enemies with low and high resolve scores. Although there could also be complaints for having backline squishie one-shotted by a randomly-empowered necrotic lance, by an enemy with just 11 resolve.

 

---

Btw, do I understand it right that this "+% random chance to empower" was thought to fit into current STR/RES system, and resolve would have 4 effects?: +1 deflection, +3% healing, +3% spell damage, +x% chance to empower?

 

Edit: have moved a few quick alternative suggesions here.

Voted, randomness in Res might be fun for player, but is not too fun when used by enemy.

[Insidous]

I think this new resolve mechanic highly depends on the implementation.

A low chance for a big spike (or drop) in power level would be pretty bad. A medium chance, like 5% per Resolve point for +- 3 power levels could be decent. I think the default scaling for spells is +10% damage, +5% duration and + 0.25 penetration per power level, which would mean that a single point of resolve increases the base damage of spells by 1.5%, the duration by 0.75% and has a slight chance of upping your penetration level.

 

These numbers are obviously just a guess, but I like the concept of having resolve benefit ability and spell impact in contrast to might affecting all damage, including auto attacks.

 

 

Edit: Just saw this, so don't mind my numbers. And they seem to go with lower chance, big impact...

Edited February 26, 2018 by Insidous

[Insidous]

 

 

Voted, randomness in Res might be fun for player, but is not too fun when used by enemy.

 

 

 

A high level dragon with a high power level itself profits less from increased power level than lesser creatures. Let's say the dragon is level 18, meaning his power level is 8 (assuming creature progression is like single class progression). He uses a 50 base damage spell:

 

basic 8PL: 90dmg

empowered with empower mechanic, 18PL: 140dmg

empowered with my suggested resolve-based-empower numbers, 11PL: 105dmg

 

 

I think it all depends on the numbers they are choosing, the player would hardly notice the difference between 90 or 105 dmg, but 140 would be indeed devastating and frustrating.

Also the relative impact is bigger for low level characters and creatures which is weird 

 

 

Edit: never mind, it seems to be super saiyan like...

Edited February 26, 2018 by Insidous

[LampStaple]

I wonder what a non-random version would look like?

 

How about something in the vein of:

RES 1-8 never occurs

RES 9-11 every 8th empowerable action will be empowered (perhaps starting with the first, to increase the value of RES even further?)

RES 12-14 every 7th empowerable action will be empowered (ditto)

RES 15-16 every 6th empowerable action will be empowered (ditto)

RES 17-18 every 5rd empowerable action will be empowered (ditto)

RES 19-20 every 4nd empowerable action will be empowered (ditto)

RES 21-22 every 3rd empowerable action will be empowered (ditto)

 

Or is this madly OP?

 

I mean, idk about numbers or OP but this makes resolve look like a really interesting stat. 

[BrettNLowe]

Ugh. I guess the Muscle Wizard fans win after all.

 

At the very least we can all hope *something* works out for Resolve other than going back to the Pillars 1 system where Resolve was terrible.

[Boeroer]

Well - it was less terrible than in Daedfire Beta1.

[CENIC]

Just bring back MIG, and give RES +5% Inspiration Duration (Received/Cast), +5% Affliction Duration (Cast), -5% Affliction Duration (Received) to make it more attractive.

[Starwars]

Not a huge fan of the randomized Empower suggestion. 

 

I *love* luck based random things in certain things (Luck in Fallout for example) but I don't think PoE is a great fit for that kind of thing. At least not in terms of the combat.