TOPIC : Enchantments/Craft/Grimoires/Spells

[DexGames]

I think this subject may interest some people,

 

One of my concern on the 1st Pillars Of Eternity was that we'd get to know & see, every possible Enchantments we could do, like, from the very begining of the Game.

 

And never had the opportunity to find that great treasure containing that awesome new Recipe for Weapons, Armor, Shields or Hats.

Pretty sure it was a lack of time and ressources problem for you to make it happen.

 

 

But now, killing Concelhaut, or Any Archmage should have this feature in Deadfire.

Sneaking in his/her own private Library, looking for Unique Spells & Enchantments that only a powerfull Archmage know about.

 

If I'm a Rogue, or have a Rogue, and sees that, an Archmage keeps his personal Grimoire in his desk.

I'd like to have the possibility to sneak in at night, and steal it ! 

 

Obviously, Yselmir should manisfest & tell the Hero : "Hey, why not steal this Grimoire from him ?".   

Of course, Aloth, like the p*ssy he is, (I like Aloth...^^) would instantly disagree : "You can't do that ! it's one the most powerfull Mage's Grimoire in Eora, he must have protected it with all kinds of dangerous spells ! Even put a Curse that prevent others to use it !" etc, etc. 

 

 

Ok, all of this to say, I'd like Unique (hidden) Recipes in terms of Enchantments primarily, and maybe Weapons & Stuff in Deadfire. 

I hope they will be able to push that feature further this time around.

[injurai]

Speaking of enchanting, I know a lot of peeps around here have been vocal critics of it. I barely used it personally, so that already speaks to some of it's problems.

 

I have no clue how it'd fix enchanting itself, but it's certainly be nice to have it reflected better in the lore and writing of the world. As of now it's sort of the "untalked about profession" even chefs get more attention in Pillars than enchanters.

[Katarack21]

I used enchanting consistently throughout the game; enchanting and crafting were the two big money pits for me. Although it clearly has flaws, one of the aspects that I heard people complain about--the way that that big-name found or purchased equipment in late game could be comparable or even out classed by old early-game loot that's been enchanted and upgraded regularly--is something I really liked and appreciated a great deal about the enchanting system.

[Boeroer]

Me too.

[AndreaColombo]

Same. Loved the ability to keep something for the entire game without gimping myself.

[Quillon]

Although it clearly has flaws, one of the aspects that I heard people complain about--the way that that big-name found or purchased equipment in late game could be comparable or even out classed by old early-game loot that's been enchanted and upgraded regularly--is something I really liked and appreciated a great deal about the enchanting system.

 

I liked the idea of it before the game came out but in practice, -in most cases- you're using the old equipment for its [upgraded] stats, constantly skipping better/different looking equipment is not fun. Sometimes too much freedom is bad and PoE's enchanting system has 2xtoo much freedom; 1. you can upgrade equipment from lowest to highest tier. 2. you can use every different enchantment on it which makes most unique equipment not so unique any more. 

 

f.e. I prefer ****load of unique weapons of FNV with limited modding over F4's handful of weapons with extensive modding.

 

Use the equipment, enjoy it but move on...

[JerekKruger]

I'd like to see more enchanting recipes that you have to find, rather than having the full collection from the start. I think it's likely that Obsidian originally intended it to be like this in Pillars (see the cooking recipe you can learn in Gilded Vale) but probably cut it due to time restraints.

 

I also like the idea of being able to steal a powerful wizard's grimoire. I wouldn't have this be something you can do against every wizard, since it would become stale, but I'd love to see a scripted interaction that requires high stealth (and other things) for at least one wizard fight.

 

I liked the idea of it before the game came out but in practice, -in most cases- you're using the old equipment for its [upgraded] stats, constantly skipping better/different looking equipment is not fun.

 

I think it would also help if item properties were more varied and interesting. Before the White March expansions itemisation in Pillars was pretty bland: I certainly didn't get a feeling of excitement when finding a new item very often. White March improved this by having more items with genuinely unique properties (as opposed to the list of enchantments unavailable to the player but shared between multiple items that Pillars had) so I am hopeful that itemisation will be even better in Deadfire.

 

On top of that, Josh has stated that their current enchantment system will be more limited in Deadfire insofar as you won't be able to enchant a low tier item all the way to the highest tier like you could in Pillars. Personally I don't like this, as I feel giving the player freedom is (almost) always a good thing, but for those who did have the problem you state with enchanting in Pillars this should go a fair way to solving it.

[Wormerine]

Well, Josh said that what they are thinking about is creating different tiers of weapons. You won't be able to enchant a low tier weapon to the level of high tier - so eventually you will have to swap.

This could work but it also creates couple problems. If you won't be able to use your enchanted weapon for long, you might now want to enchant until you have a higher tier weapon. It all depends on how economy will be handled. 

I didn't enjoy enchantment too much, as I found weapons to be not very memorable (it got better in White March with addition of soulbound weapons). The system does certainly have potential but I would like to see it more fleshed out. Maybe discovering enchantments like spell system in Tyranny would be good. Mixing vaious elements creating unique effects limited by weapon's quality (working like lore in Tyranny.)

[Quillon]

The system does certainly have potential but I would like to see it more fleshed out. Maybe discovering enchantments like spell system in Tyranny would be good. Mixing vaious elements creating unique effects limited by weapon's quality (working like lore in Tyranny.)

 

Discovering recipes would add that feeling of progression but in the end when you discover a recipe its getting added to a pool of recipes, that you are gonna mix & match freely. Like I said the idea of it is nice but I gave Fallout example, there is also Dragon Age: Inquisition's crafting...yay possibilities are "endless" but every possibility looks & feels similar "but I have the freedom to use whatever materials on an armor that even changes its color! Can you believe that?"

 

Its like Skyrim's or F4's "infinite" quests; you are gonna do the same quests over & over again but NPCs/locations will be different each time(tho they f-up even this with generating the same quests with the same NPCs over and over).

 

Its good for short term play and easier development of the game<after you create dat whatever system that generates/lets players generate content for the game; your devs will do less work, less unique armors, weps, quests etc etc.

[Quillon]

I think it would also help if item properties were more varied and interesting. Before the White March expansions itemisation in Pillars was pretty bland: I certainly didn't get a feeling of excitement when finding a new item very often. White March improved this by having more items with genuinely unique properties (as opposed to the list of enchantments unavailable to the player but shared between multiple items that Pillars had) so I am hopeful that itemisation will be even better in Deadfire.

Yeah WM certainly improved itemization but one thing I didn't like was a spell attached to most items, especially with stronghold quest reward items. Felt cheap and it was all over the place: I don't want my barb to wear gloves that add fireball, even tho I won't use the fireball & rest of the stats are good for him.

[rjshae]

I've never felt much satisfaction about vacuuming up herbs for enchantment purposes, whether it be PoE, Elder Scrolls, or any other system. It only became mildly interesting in the few cases where I needed to hunt down a particular herb at a certain location.

[Abel]

I stated this once in a lenghty post several months ago, but while enchanting has many problems to me, the biggest of them all is the fact that enchantment is completely separated from the lore.

 

I have no clue how it'd fix enchanting itself, but it's certainly be nice to have it reflected better in the lore and writing of the world. As of now it's sort of the "untalked about profession" even chefs get more attention in Pillars than enchanters.

 This.

 

I feel enchanting, while not varied and thus, pretty boring, is still overpowered and would need to be tuned down. The main character should not be able to craft legendary items with one plant, 1 gem, one whatnot and.... money (?? Obvious money sink. Way too obvious. And does not make sense.) by just making one click while strolling in the forest. You should not be able to enchant anything, anywhere, with no particular skill needed. If it were this easy to craft fine items, nobody would have base items. You should need some tools, time, and knowledge to do so.

 

And characters should not be able to craft better than exceptionnal on their own, unless they have some background story detailing how they learned the art of enchantment through trial and error over the YEARS. I would like to see enchanters, crafters, like Cromwell in BG2 (though Cromwell was still a bit limited in its use) you can hire to do a better job (still.... not legendary, unless the enchanter is of legendary skill).

 

I would want to see books about enchanting, enchanter shops, talks about enchanting, recipes being discovered or learned through questing or exploration, lore about how it works, places with hints on where to get ingredients, and so on. I would like plenty of flavoured or very specific enchantments i could put on anything (even boots). The absolute opposite of overpowered. Even something dumb like an enchantment allowing your boots to clean themselves once you go in a house, even if the sole effect is some appreciation from the shop owner. Or a cape "of good rest" that would allow some good sleep even on some rocky ground. Or whatever. With some sort of noticeable gameplay effect (dialogue or anything), just for flavour or not. I would like the option to add such barely useful enchantments on anything that makes sense at the cost of an appropriate slot cost.

 

Magic should not be only about ways to kill things. Crafting should not be limited to some bare UI allowing you to kill things better.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Abel

[Quillon]

...talks about enchanting...

[hilfazer]

1. you can upgrade equipment from lowest to highest tier. 2. you can use every different enchantment on it which makes most unique equipment not so unique any more.

1. false (technically Legendary is second highest enchantment level)

2. false

[MortyTheGobbo]

The fact that crafting and enchanting does not require you to hunt down recipes first is what makes it an actually solid gameplay mechanic in Pillars, instead of a chore. Which it is in every other game that has crafting. Being able to keep my party's equipment updated in a clear and concise manner, and without relying on what I find, was very nice.

 

I mean, not being dependent on random/scripted loot is the only purpose crafting has, other than padding content and... I don't know why people keep putting crafting in games, actually. Adding more steps to crafting an item doesn't enrich the experience or make it more challenging - it just adds busywork. It sounds cool and all, but it isn't. All it does is add extra steps - instead of finding a cool new item as loot, you find the recipe for a cool new item as loot, and then you still have to make it.

 

Making unique items obsolete is, to me, a good thing. I don't care about the "thrill" of discovering them, and I just want to get decent equipment for my current level with minimum hassle. My favourite inventory systems in RPGs were Witcher 1, Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3, for that precise reason. It's a shame that Deadfire will push for making the players run on the gear treadmill.

Edited June 10, 2017 by MortyTheGobbo

[JerekKruger]

Making unique items obsolete is, to me, a good thing. I don't care about the "thrill" of discovering them, and I just want to get decent equipment for my current level with minimum hassle. My favourite inventory systems in RPGs were Witcher 1, Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3, for that precise reason. It's a shame that Deadfire will push for making the players run on the gear treadmill.

 

Couldn't agree less. The thrill of getting new items is a big part of the draw of CRPGs, and I only dislike gear treadmills of the type Diablo 3 has: in Pillars, and hence presumably Deadfire, all the most important gear is guaranteed to drop.

[AndreaColombo]

I understand what they want to achieve in Deadfire and I do believe that limiting certain enchantments to weapons that already possess specific characteristics from the get-go is a step in the right direction. One of the issues with the enchanting system in Pillars was that you could apply a given set of enchantments to literally any weapon, which made those enchantments mundane; finding a flaming sword is pretty meh if you can just make any sword in the game flaming in the first place.

 

However, the limit to quality enchantments is something I am strongly opposed to. It will force me to change weapons lest I gimp myself even if I'd really want to keep whatever weapon I have at the moment. The main strength (and IIRC the explicit purpose) of the enchanting system in Pillars was that if you liked a piece of gear aesthetically, you'd get to keep it for the entire game without suffering from a power perspective. Now they're taking this away, so if playing the fashion game is something you enjoy (and I know I do), you're in for a bad time unless literally every item in the game looks staggering.

[JerekKruger]

I understand what they want to achieve in Deadfire and I do believe that limiting certain enchantments to weapons that already possess specific characteristics from the get-go is a step in the right direction. One of the issues with the enchanting system in Pillars was that you could apply a given set of enchantments to literally any weapon, which made those enchantments mundane; finding a flaming sword is pretty meh if you can just make any sword in the game flaming in the first place.

 

However, the limit to quality enchantments is something I am strongly opposed to. It will force me to change weapons lest I gimp myself even if I'd really want to keep whatever weapon I have at the moment. The main strength (and IIRC the explicit purpose) of the enchanting system in Pillars was that if you liked a piece of gear aesthetically, you'd get to keep it for the entire game without suffering from a power perspective. Now they're taking this away, so if playing the fashion game is something you enjoy (and I know I do), you're in for a bad time unless literally every item in the game looks staggering.

 

Agreed. I actually quite like the idea of limiting elemental damage enchantments to weapons that already have them, but I'd prefer it if quality enchantments were not limited at all. With a sufficiently varied list of non-quality enchantments that can't be applied universally I doubt anyone can really make the same complaint that was levelled at Pillars, but it would also ensure that if someone really liked an item that dropped early on they wouldn't be gimped by sticking with it.

[injurai]

It sounds to me they just don't want you to upgrade a standard item all the way up to superb. Just find the same item but exquisite then enchant it just the same.

 

I don't really see the big deal in that.

[JerekKruger]

It sounds to me they just don't want you to upgrade a standard item all the way up to superb. Just find the same item but exquisite then enchant it just the same.

 

Well Josh said at some point that there will only be one flaming sword in the game. If that flaming sword starts with, say, the fine enchantment then it can't be made superb according to the enchanting system as he described it, meaning anyone who wants to use a flaming sword will be at a disadvantage over someone using a different weapon.

 

It's a fairly minor thing overall, but I don't see the problem with making an exception to quality enchantments. The stated reason for this change was peoples' complaints about loot not being exciting due to the ability to enchant any weapon to be as good as most unique ones, so if non-quality enchantments remain unique to items that start with them I think the problem would still be solved even if quality enchantments could be universally applied, and it would give players who want to keep some early game weapon the choice to do so without them being punished.

[injurai]

Maybe they should also go the disenchant route.

[draego]

It sounds to me they just don't want you to upgrade a standard item all the way up to superb. Just find the same item but exquisite then enchant it just the same.

 

I don't really see the big deal in that.

 

The issue is there wont be the same item to find later. They have already stated that there will be one flaming or dragon slaying weapon the entire game. So if the flaming weapon has no or low quality enchantment you can only increase that quality enchantment one level and not all the way up meaning if you built your character with the idea of using flaming weapon you or like AndreaColombo just like the aesthetic of the weapon you are stuck. 

 

Its good to restrict a lot of the special enchantments like flaming or dragon slaying. I just dont think its a good idea to restrict quality if you only ever find one special enchantment like flaming the entire game. This means you are at the mercy of the devs who could drop special items your character happens to like or Synergizes well with later the game so those weapons dont become gimpy to you.

 

 JerekKruger beat me to it heh.

Edited June 10, 2017 by draego

[Baltic]

Has it actually been said for certain that there's only one weapon with dragon slaying or whatever in the game?

[JerekKruger]

Has it actually been said for certain that there's only one weapon with dragon slaying or whatever in the game?

It was stated in, if I recall correctly, one of the Twitch Q&A steams, but I wouldn't take it as a guarantee that there will only be one.

 

For context it was (again if I recall correctly) actually in response to a question about making itemisation more unique in Deadfire.

Edited June 10, 2017 by JerekKruger

[MortyTheGobbo]

So there's a very real chance of missing it entirely. This is the first Deadfire news I genuinely dislike.