Stretch goal discussion!

[mph]

 

 

 

 

New stretch goal is awesome. 1 more sublcass per class, level 20 is the new cap, and orchestrated soundtrack.

 

It's a little weird that they put all three of those into one goal, when any one of them would probably have produced quite a bit of hype from the community. Not that I am complaining.

Yup, I noticed that too. I really think they were noticing the humdrum reactions to the past few stretch goals, and changed this one to me more content driven with another sublcass and extra levels. The orchestra is icing on the cake.

If I were them, I would have had another simple stretch goal plus localization for $2.8m, and gone ahead and posted this update for $3m. We will be at 2.8 in no time, I think. Also, with the weekend here, they could rest easy. I'm sure they have more info that I do, and they know what they are doing. Either way, it's a great stretch goal. I'm really excited for the 3rd subclass and Orchestra, and a level 20 cap is definitely cool.

They already know that the campaign will probably reach 3.5-4m in the end (esp. if the Investors really are at 2m), so where they place the goals from that range is just a formality (chances are that those 3 things will cost them more than $200k). I guess they wanted to make us happy and break the mid-campaign lull

It's best to never assume anything is a sure thing. We will reach around $3.3m when the rest of the investors come into the total, but you don't want to dump all your goodies this early. Once the investors are approved its new backers and add-ons that will carry the campaign, and they will need more enticing to dump money toward the end with the investors all added in. So, I'm optimistic that you are right, but I wouldn't throw caution to the wind either.

 

Agreed, but even if "only" 3.3m can be seen as guaranteed, that still gives them plenty of room to go creative with SGoal placement.

[Gromnir]

we were expecting level 20.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/91187-starting-back-at-level-1/?p=1876282

 

we weren't expecting it 'til later.  doubt it means anything.

 

 

 

 

Sometimes a companion that doesn't fit the setting is a good thing. It makes them feel unique within the setting. Having everyone fit nice and neat can become a bit bland. Sometimes you need to spice it up.

 

yes.  if there is an 8th companion, we would like to see something different or unique, but at first glance, a pale elf would be unlikely to make us think, "hey, that's spicy." 'course is more important to make the character significant for who they is as 'posed to what they is, but such an opinion is actual a minority view.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Ganrich]

@mph - That's fair. I still expect the real goodies later. We will see. I am excited to see what those late campaign stretch goals are.

[juanval]

Nice 11th update with orchestra news, but playing from level 1 to 20 is something that concerns me. Suposing that PoE2 has the same lenght that PoE1, level-up is going to be too fast. That makes we don't give too much importance to level-up feature, and levelling-up is one of the most important concepts of RPGs.

[Flouride]

Excellent stretch goal. Though I would have loved it if there was like sample of non-orchestral music vs. orchestral music in there as well.

 

I bet implementing those two extra levels isn't all that cheap. Design spells/skills, program them and then add animation, effects and art. 

[Flouride]

Nice 11th update with orchestra news, but playing from level 1 to 20 is something that concerns me. Suposing that PoE2 has the same lenght that PoE1, level-up is going to be too fast. That makes we don't give too much importance to level-up feature, and levelling-up is one of the most important concepts of RPGs.

 

I think it's only fair that we get to have more levels in the sequel. People would be somewhat pissed off, if the game ended at the same level as Pillars 1.

In Pillars 1 doing sidequests etc. lost purpose a long time before the end as you hit the level cap way way before it. I don't think that is an ideal situation either. 

[Gromnir]

am actual a little (only a little) concerned 'bout level 20.  poe2 will be 'bout same size as poe1, if our memory o' josh comments serves.  we got to level 12 in poe1.  same 'mount of gameplay takes us to level 20 don't bother us too much, but it does seem a bit quick.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Ganrich]

@Gromnir - So, a Pale Elf, which aren't nomadic, are a rarity in the region, and could give some neat introspective on the sub race isn't spicy to you? I agree that the character is more important than their skin, but that skin can lead to interesting character points with the appropriate backstory, objectives, etc. Just as good (if not better) then a more regionally fitting race.

 

PoE + both TWM had two Amauas, and we have one in this game. We have had, and will have, the Amaua perspective covered pretty well. I expect the unknown current companion is probably a Dwarf. Human could be pretty bland (but character is everything) so I don't see much point there. Heck, I could see another Orlan for interesting Orlan banter when they are together. The Pale Elf would be fitting based on what we have so far in Deadfire and what we had in the previous game.

[injurai]

"Hows the sub-class work coming Josh?"

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​"BELAY THAT PORTUGUESE LOCALIZATION!"

[Flouride]

am actual a little (only a little) concerned 'bout level 20.  poe2 will be 'bout same size as poe1, if our memory o' josh comments serves.  we got to level 12 in poe1.  same 'mount of gameplay takes us to level 20 don't bother us too much, but it does seem a bit quick.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

I imagine they will explain it by The Watcher gaining back what was stolen by Eothas and thus getting levels a bit faster in the beginning or something like that. 

[AndreaColombo]

$2.8mm is the best stretch goal so far. Color me excited AF :D

[Ganrich]

@Gromnir - Weren't there complaints before the White March level increases about people hitting the level cap well before the end game? Maybe Obsidian is ensuring that they avoid that this go around.

[juanval]

am actual a little (only a little) concerned 'bout level 20.  poe2 will be 'bout same size as poe1, if our memory o' josh comments serves.  we got to level 12 in poe1.  same 'mount of gameplay takes us to level 20 don't bother us too much, but it does seem a bit quick.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

It would be interesting that Josh or another dev could tell us how they are going to deal with levellingup so fast.

[injurai]

​

It would be interesting that Josh or another dev could tell us how they are going to deal with levellingup so fast.

 

​Maybe we'd take skill every other level. Josh gave a talk at GDC on how they scale attributes differently than past Infinity engine games and the table tops. He talked about how the stutter-step solution was good and had it's merits but ended up not being used in PoE. So maybe the team wants to go for that.

[Gromnir]

 

am actual a little (only a little) concerned 'bout level 20.  poe2 will be 'bout same size as poe1, if our memory o' josh comments serves.  we got to level 12 in poe1.  same 'mount of gameplay takes us to level 20 don't bother us too much, but it does seem a bit quick.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

I imagine they will explain it by The Watcher gaining back what was stolen by Eothas and thus getting levels a bit faster in the beginning or something like that. 

 

that makes sense.  

 

@ganrich

 

no, is nothing inherent spicy 'bout pale elves.  no more spicy than any other standard poe race.  folks unfamiliar with the game is not gonna see picture or hear o' description o' standard pale elf and be reaching for the milk to mellow out the capsaicin burn.  relative speaking, is kinda mundane. 

 

but again, our view is that the development o' the character is more important than the starting point.  doesn't matter to us the race or class as long as obsidian does something memorable with the companion after we have 'em join our group.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[ManifestedISO]

@Gromnir - Weren't there complaints before the White March level increases about people hitting the level cap well before the end game? Maybe Obsidian is ensuring that they avoid that this go around.

 

Even after, it's possible to reach Level 16 before completing Acts III and IV ... without a limit, Level 18 seems likely.

[Sylvus_Moonbow]

20 levels for main game? What will the two expansion packs bump it up to then? Experience may very well have to be less in this case to slow down the level gains so the end game isn't so easy like it was in p1.

[injurai]

20 levels for main game? What will the two expansion packs bump it up to then? Experience may very well have to be less in this case to slow down the level gains so the end game isn't so easy like it was in p1.

 

​There is like a dozen ways to go about balancing the increase in levels. Not sure if Obsidian has any plans or has talked about this, but it seems to be the next big topic on fans minds. Maybe a thread to get people's opinions is worthwhile once we hear a bit more.

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​Gaining levels too fast though might mean we don't get enough time to "settle in" with each next tier in our build. I'm sure others can think of more concerns in regards to balance and scaling.

[Rolandur]

I'm pretty sure they already did Sub-classes and now they're doing more? What does this mean? Will class building rest on a needle point or will playing a character a have core (read: broad) class feeling?

[Rolandur]

20 levels for main game? What will the two expansion packs bump it up to then? Experience may very well have to be less in this case to slow down the level gains so the end game isn't so easy like it was in p1.

 

The obviously are adding that much more content which is fantastic if they were going to only, originally, 16. Must be all those new Flavor Flav islands

Edited February 11, 2017 by Rolandur

[evilcat]

Very beefy stretch goal, orchestra is love and life, with higher level cap less ppl will complain that they play solo and they maxed half game yadayada. And even if you do 2 kits per class there are  always some who didnt get in but are cool even if niche. And there are order classes who by default have like 6 orders and fleshing each of them would be plus for Paladin and Priest lovers.

[JerekKruger]

In Pillars 1 doing sidequests etc. lost purpose a long time before the end as you hit the level cap way way before it. I don't think that is an ideal situation either.

 

If the side quests are well written I don't really mind not getting experience for completing them: I enjoy doing them for their own sake.

[Gromnir]

 

@Gromnir - Weren't there complaints before the White March level increases about people hitting the level cap well before the end game? Maybe Obsidian is ensuring that they avoid that this go around.

 

Even after, it's possible to reach Level 16 before completing Acts III and IV ... without a limit, Level 18 seems likely.

 

am assuming you are playing the white march expansion to reach such a level, which ain't fair to the present discussion.

 

before the bounty rewards were nerfed, one could hit level 12 earlier than anticipated.  much earlier.  somebody does all the endless paths and all the available bounties before they does the trial?  sure, could get you w/i sneezing distance o' max level.  on our first run, we were level 10 at time we finished the trial.  as a pathological completionist, the only part of endless paths we hadn't done were last 3 levels, and we did 'bout 1/2 bounties available.

 

biggest single problem were the bounties, which were why with an early patch, their xp reward were effective halved.

 

but yeah, it were possible to reach level 12 a fair bit before the end o' the game.  however, particular following the bounty nerf, we sure as heck wouldn't have benefited from 4-8 additional levels in poe 1.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited February 11, 2017 by Gromnir

[Archaven]

Another level cap increase? Seriously? This is one of the most pointless stretch goals. If they are increasing the content (more sidequests being added) that leads to the need for increasing the cap then i'm fine. But i doubt this is the case considering in some articles i read, the length of the game is similar to PoE1. With same amount of content with just increase level cap, they are probably bloating the XP gain faster so that you level faster. I'm opposing in having many levels IF each level up does not has any significant gain. They are again holding back those goals that people really want. Considering they are making a sequel, the budget for orchestra should already been included in the budget and not unlocked via stretch goals. Full orchestra, it's not something that is going to add to the game significantly, IMO.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Archaven

[injurai]

Another level cap increase? Seriously? This is one of the most pointless stretch goals. If they are increasing the content (more sidequests being added) that leads to the need for increasing the cap then i'm fine. But i doubt this is the case considering in some articles i read, the length of the game is similar to PoE1. With same amount of content with just increase level cap, they are probably bloating the XP gain faster so that you level faster. I'm opposing in having many levels IF each level up does not has any significant gain. They are again holding back those goals that people really want. Considering they are making a sequel, the budget for orchestra should already been included in the budget and not unlocked via stretch goals. Full orchestra, it's not something that is going to add to the game significantly, IMO.

 

​But what if they add more abilities for these new levels... that's got to count for something. Are we just going to assume Obsidian is making levels without adding abilities? I suppose it could be all attribute gain, but unlikely.