Stretch goal discussion!

[desel]

 

Could someone ask the devs over at fig if "Berath's Blessings" is an entirely optional feature and can be ignored?

Thanks.

 

Given that PoE allows you to have unspent attribute points when creating a character, I'd imagine Deadfire will allow you to leave these "blessing points" unspent as well. I might be wrong but I'd be surprised if you're forced to take them.

 

 

Well I hope so.

I couldn't care less about achievements or unlockable "boosts" making the game easier in any way.

 

Some official word on whether this is indeed something you can opt out of any time would be nice though.

[theBalthazar]

So... If I understand, Berath's blessing is a content for NG+ ?

[Messier-31]

Berath Blessing is basically a NG+ so that's a thumbs down 

 

But there will be nagas, so that's a thumbs up 

 

 

Berath plays a large role in the story of Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire that we don't want to reveal quite yet, but she will aid you at the start of your adventure with her blessings. 

 

Berath is female now?  I always thought that it was intentionally unclear like "In Eír Glanfath's ruins, Berath is depicted in the form of two semi-skeletal figures - one male, one female - Bewnen i Ankew and Ankew i Bewnen - literally, Life in Death and Death in Life in the Glanfathan tongue. Male and female, inside and outside, life and death - we often think of Berath by imagining two sides of coin, or the two end points of a journey.

Edited February 7, 2017 by Messier-31

[AndreaColombo]

I think they just use "she" in this case only to use "he" next time, like they do with Kyros in Tyranny. Berath manifests themselves as both a male and a female persona, so their actual sex (if any) is unknown.

 

Berath's Blessing is based on achievements so if you get any during a play through and decide to start from scratch without completing it, you still get points to spend for the achievements you unlocked.

[Gromnir]

edit

 

doh!

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps update says increases is based on +1,500 backers from today, but is a 2.6 mil stretch goal.  if is 1,500 in fact from today and not from 2.6, then am thinking it should be 1,500 from yesterday as that is when obsidian first posted.

Edited February 7, 2017 by Gromnir

[draego]

Berath Blessing is basically a NG+ so that's a thumbs down 

 

But there will be nagas, so that's a thumbs up 

 

 

Berath plays a large role in the story of Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire that we don't want to reveal quite yet, but she will aid you at the start of your adventure with her blessings. 

 

Berath is female now?  I always thought that it was intentionally unclear like "In Eír Glanfath's ruins, Berath is depicted in the form of two semi-skeletal figures - one male, one female - Bewnen i Ankew and Ankew i Bewnen - literally, Life in Death and Death in Life in the Glanfathan tongue. Male and female, inside and outside, life and death - we often think of Berath by imagining two sides of coin, or the two end points of a journey.

 

Berath always had a female incarnation the Pallid Knight:

 

"The Pallid Knight" is a manifestation of Berath that has appeared in legends as a gaunt female knight with black armor and hair, and "milk-pale" skin. In the legends the knight appears to someone that has escaped or cheated death, and demands an impossible toll for travelling her lord's road for too long. The person either surrenders, or fights the knight and kill themselves in the process, or flee from him to stumble upon the Usher.

 

This is actually one my role plays as a Female Pale Elf Berath Priest. Glad there will be tie in. 

[limaxophobiacq]

Ugh, add me to the list of people who really don't want this 'Beraths Blessing' NG+ feature in the game.

[Rolandur]

Ugh, add me to the list of people who really don't want this 'Beraths Blessing' NG+ feature in the game.

 

It all sounds kind of optional to me, the way I read it, so it shouldn't be of too much concern. Plus the longer people play, add challenge (or make the game easier with options) to the game the more people will buy, gift it, and stay on the radar through word of mouth, more inquiries, more posts on forums giving the game a longer lifespan. And all of that can add up to expansions and more content in other forms ~cough~ TTRPG, PoE3, more lore books & novels,  and other ventures and every % longer people play is every % closer to more.

[SkySlam]

Guys what are you talking about? The Berath's Blessing is a fantastic idea given the number of times we are going to replay the game!

 

- You can give yourself bonus or penalties in order to adjust difficulty levels.

- You can recruit your favorite companion(s) in the party immediately, instead of waiting hours!

- You can use the blessing as a Dungeon-be-gone mod (Baldur's Gate II), remember?

- You get to keep your personal soulbound weapon, if you want.

- You can instantly have all the money needed to buy fancy clothes!

 

I mean, what's not to like there? Don't tell me you never wanted any of those in the first game, because I did sooo many times!

Save Xoti, this is the best stretch goal for me!

[Boeroer]

I think it's kind of bad.

 

What's not to like?

Let's say you did a PoTD run, then another, then another one. You will get better and better with this game because your meta knowledge will grow, you will grasp all the mechanics and tricks, you will figure out game breaking builds and so on. AND you will have more attribute points and high level items to make the game even more boring. I can see that options like "make the game harder" make sense, but keeping items or even gain more attribute points seems to be a bad idea. 

 

What they could do is to unlock cool new designs for equipment, alternative effects for spells (green fireball or whatever), style enchantments, secret companions or pets for the new playthroughs and so on. That would motivate me to play another round. No getting more attribute points or starting with Blade of the Endless Paths, Acuan Giamas or Twin Sting. Feels cheesy.

 

But that's just my opinion.

[AndreaColombo]

Now I really want a green fireball that does corrode damage.

[Doppelschwert]

Among other things, I think this system is meant to give incentives to go for achievements. This in turn will accomplish two things:

 

- More feedback for the devs, since Achievements give them simple metrics about central gameplay elements and difficulty

- More players looking into optional game-systems that come up with achievements.

 

There is a simple reason why there are very easy crafting achievements and the trap achievement in PoE - to get people to try them out, and to get feedback whether these systems are actually utilized ingame.

 

This stretch goal is an easy win-win for the devs - they benefit from better feedback, and players have been asking for that feature anyway.

[amazeing4art]

I'd urge the devs to be cautious about going hog-wild with additional stretch goals regarding expanding gameplay mechanics... adding multi-classing and subclasses I suspect will be creating lots of gameplay balance issues already! The original system was really great and decently balanced. So many sequel games I have seen that cause problems by messing with what is already a good thing in the core mechanics.

 

Would suggest that additional stretch goals add actual content to the game, great content. Fulvano's travels is that kind of thing, that is awesome. 

 

Personally I would love stretch goals that make the world more dynamic too. I really hate the 'dead world' aspect of most RPGs... after you clear an area its totally dead and there is usually no reason to return. If you do return, its either totally empty (e.g. wilderness or dungeon area) or there is no reason to talk to anybody anymore (towns). I love to see stretch content that makes cleared areas more dynamic... like if you clear a dungeon of a necromancer, maybe three weeks later a tribe of xaurips takes it over. And there would (perhaps) be a quest from the nearby town's mayor to go deal with them. Kill them and you get some small amounts of gold, maybe a few minor items to sell, maybe some town reputation, etc. Nothing too powerful as a reward. But the idea is that these xaurips would not be a one-time thing that is pre-written into that dungeon and happens by plan when you kill the necromancer. Maybe spiders take it over, or maybe local miners from the town move in and start working it. If it is xaurips that show up and you kill them, maybe one week later some earth blights take hold of the mine. On and on... so its a dynamic mine area. 

 

Given how the XP mechanics work, you don't get infinite XP from killing xaurips or spiders or anything else over and over anyway so leveling balance issues are less of a concern. But it would make the world seem so much more alive. So I vote for more dynamic world stretch goals  

Edited February 7, 2017 by amazeing4art

[SkySlam]

I think it's kind of bad.

[...]

 

I suppose you might already know this, but you are not the standard, average player of PoE!   

What you find annoying/useless will probably be an heavenly manna for the vast majority of players. The devs already specified that the Berath Blessing can be applied even before finishing the game for the first time, because many people don't even reach the end once!

 

Just like you, I believe that starting with a stats boost or with a soulbound weapon is cheesy, and for sure I will not do this. Does this make it a BAD option to have? No. This is the best part: it's all optional, therefore we are free not to use it.

 

Having many optional features (even unbalanced ones) is great for single-player games, I don't see how they could be detrimental to your own experience.

For example: I will take my favorite companions fast, and you will ignore all the bonuses and take only the Berath's Curse instead!

We are all happy, you see?

[Baramos]

I think it's kind of bad.

 

What's not to like?

Let's say you did a PoTD run, then another, then another one. You will get better and better with this game because your meta knowledge will grow, you will grasp all the mechanics and tricks, you will figure out game breaking builds and so on. AND you will have more attribute points and high level items to make the game even more boring. 

 

All those things are optional though.

 

You could always use your berry's blessing points on the things that make the game harder. 

 

If it was a forced thing I'd totally understand and would be against it but what we were shown today I have little to no complaints.

 

If I want a difficult run I'll use the blessing that make the game more difficult. If I'm feeling lazy and feel like doing weird builds I'll choose the ones that make it easier.

 

Edit: Berath not Berry. Dang autocorrect.

Edited February 7, 2017 by Baramos

[LordCrash]

Guys what are you talking about? The Berath's Blessing is a fantastic idea given the number of times we are going to replay the game!

 

Who is "we"? 

 

I'm already glad if I can find the time to play the game ONCE. It's not like PoE2 was  some 5 hour long shooter.

 

So I care much more about everything that can happen in my first (and likely only full) playthrough of the game.

Edited February 7, 2017 by LordCrash

[Andraste]

I'm most excited about the prospect of getting companions instantly on repeat playthroughs -  no repeats of waiting until Act II to get Pallegina, or trekking all the way to the White March for Zahua, Maneha and the Devil of Caroc!

[DozingDragon]

I think the bonuses will be fine, as others have already pointed out they can simply be ignored. However, because we don't have the full scope of this feature documented yet I am very hopeful that the developers will include things that remix or tweak the gameplay in multiple ways. The composition of enemy encounters could be tweaked (e.g, a 20% chance vessels will be included in every encounter) or enemies could gain undocumented new abilities (e.g., fission blights that have to be countered with an opposing element).

Edited February 8, 2017 by DozingDragon

[LordCrash]

I think the bonuses will be fine, as others have already pointed out they can simply be ignored. However, because we don't have the full scope of this feature documented yet I am very hopeful that the developers will include things that remix or tweak the gameplay in multiple ways. The composition of enemy encounters could be tweaked (e.g, a 20% chance vessels will be included in every encounter) or enemies could gain undocumented new abilities (e.g., fission blights that have to be countered with an opposing element).

 

All of which could be available for everybody right the start of the first(!) game, best in some "expert settings" menu for enhanced flexibitily and more choice for everybody right from the start...

Edited February 8, 2017 by LordCrash

[LuccA]

I'd urge the devs to be cautious about going hog-wild with additional stretch goals regarding expanding gameplay mechanics... adding multi-classing and subclasses I suspect will be creating lots of gameplay balance issues already! The original system was really great and decently balanced. So many sequel games I have seen that cause problems by messing with what is already a good thing in the core mechanics.

 

Would suggest that additional stretch goals add actual content to the game, great content. Fulvano's travels is that kind of thing, that is awesome. 

 

Personally I would love stretch goals that make the world more dynamic too. I really hate the 'dead world' aspect of most RPGs... after you clear an area its totally dead and there is usually no reason to return. If you do return, its either totally empty (e.g. wilderness or dungeon area) or there is no reason to talk to anybody anymore (towns). I love to see stretch content that makes cleared areas more dynamic... like if you clear a dungeon of a necromancer, maybe three weeks later a tribe of xaurips takes it over. And there would (perhaps) be a quest from the nearby town's mayor to go deal with them. Kill them and you get some small amounts of gold, maybe a few minor items to sell, maybe some town reputation, etc. Nothing too powerful as a reward. But the idea is that these xaurips would not be a one-time thing that is pre-written into that dungeon and happens by plan when you kill the necromancer. Maybe spiders take it over, or maybe local miners from the town move in and start working it. If it is xaurips that show up and you kill them, maybe one week later some earth blights take hold of the mine. On and on... so its a dynamic mine area. 

 

Given how the XP mechanics work, you don't get infinite XP from killing xaurips or spiders or anything else over and over anyway so leveling balance issues are less of a concern. But it would make the world seem so much more alive. So I vote for more dynamic world stretch goals  

 

Second this!

 

Although I think that additional content to make the world more dynamic or alive can also be some kind of concern for completionist players, who would think they're always "missing something" if they didn't get back to that dungeon etc.

 

They would have to make this extra content very forgettable and uninportant for the story I suppose, but still fun of course!

[Baramos]

 

I think the bonuses will be fine, as others have already pointed out they can simply be ignored. However, because we don't have the full scope of this feature documented yet I am very hopeful that the developers will include things that remix or tweak the gameplay in multiple ways. The composition of enemy encounters could be tweaked (e.g, a 20% chance vessels will be included in every encounter) or enemies could gain undocumented new abilities (e.g., fission blights that have to be countered with an opposing element).

 

All of which could be available for everybody right the start of the first(!) game, best in some "expert settings" menu for enhanced flexibitily and more choice for everybody right from the start...

 

 

The only bonus I'd imagine some people would be upset over is having the "challenge/harder" bonuses being locked away. 

 

Otherwise any bonus that gives you a stat boost and an all around easier time can be done normally by lowering the difficulty.

 

You're making it sound like some huge chunk of content is being locked away.

[JerekKruger]

One thing that's perhaps being overlooked: assuming, as is likely, that this system will run on local data about achievements (in order to allow non-Steam/GoG users from missing it) it will likely be very easy to give yourself the maximum number of Berath points, either by modifying game files, downloading maxed saves or using console commands. Whilst some might be annoyed that you still have to do this, at least this would provide a method to experience this content without having to complete at least one playthrough.

[LordCrash]

You're making it sound like some huge chunk of content is being locked away.

And you making it sound like some achievements are needed to enable content that would give every player more choice and freedom in the first place. Edited February 8, 2017 by LordCrash

[injurai]

Maybe we could get cheat codes as the next stretch goal.

​

​Shelby Cobra as a 6th companion anyone?

[mph]

Idea: what if the blessings that raise the difficulty had a negative point cost? They could be selected on the first run, and would also allow buying some small buffs to round things off or something (I always wanted a difficulty level somewhere between Hard and PotD).

 

Another idea: make the options for fine-tuning the difficulty (in both directions) open for everybody, and only hide meta things - like starting with companions or rare items - behind achievements or unlocks.

 

Or at least make it really easy to cheat or mod those points in