One Word - Multiclassing!

[floredon]

 

Multiclassing will be the most difficult thing to balance of the entire game...

Shapeshifting druid + carnage/torment reach?

Wizard + deathblows?

Paladin + dragon trashed?

Too many imba possibilities...

 

It's a single player RPG. Class balancing should not be that important.

 

oh but it is. 

[FlintlockJazz]

As someone with no desire to multiclass my caster PC some prestige class system would be much appreciated

Same, not really a fan of multi-classing particularly in PoE where the classes were already quite flexible anyway.  Prestige classes or as someone else mentioned earlier kits would be great.  Arch Mages oh my!

[Ganrich]

 

As someone with no desire to multiclass my caster PC some prestige class system would be much appreciated

Same, not really a fan of multi-classing particularly in PoE where the classes were already quite flexible anyway. Prestige classes or as someone else mentioned earlier kits would be great. Arch Mages oh my!

Some cool ideas can come from this though. A Barb/Chanter mixing Carnage and the concentration phrase would be an example. I agree the class system was really flexible with most classes. Some more than others though.

[anameforobsidian]

I'm ambivalent toward the idea myself, but excited for the Boeroer threads.

[jones092201]

I think part of this debate should consider that some people aren't as interested in creating optimized builds, and more interested in having a base set of abilities that conform to the idea of the character they want to play as.

Both styles are fine, but multiclassing efficiently takes a good bit of study (made easier by community threads and YouTube)

Kits and prestige classes allow your character to function in a way the devs have tested and know worked. Plus, being an assassin instead of a rogue, or a duelist instead of a fighter, helps player immersion i think.

I usually play on instinct round one, stumble through the game, and then build a significantly stronger character round two. Both play throughs are great fun.

Edited January 27, 2017 by jones092201

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Looks like I'm rolling a F/M/T then.

[Monara]

Seems such an odd choice to offer all these new character development options with multiclassing and then at the same time give us a tiny party size so we never get the chance to experiment with different characters anyway.

[anameforobsidian]

Eh, you have space for a tank, off-tank, controller, healer, and whatever with five people.  It's not as good as six people, but the fifth person provides space for experimentation.

 

Monk/ fighter and monk/ druid would be on my list of easy multi-classes.  

More interesting might be Rangerdins.  Sworn enemy and marked target could possibly make a nasty stack.  

Or ranger-mages.  You would just need to take enough mage to get alacrity.  Same with cipher-mages.

Fighter/priests might damn near replace paladins.  

Chanter mages could probably use combusting wounds and dragon slashed nicely.

And I can see a level of rogue being practically mandatory for weapon users.  Rogue 1 / Wizard 5 / Cipher 10 could get nasty.

[Silent Winter]

I don't mind the idea of multi-classing, and it can lead to some fun role-playing builds (Barbarian-Wizard? Rogue-Paladin?) - but please don't spend eternity ( ) balancing the game out.  If there are one or two OP builds, that's fine.  But don't nerf the cr*p out of the fun builds just because someone else *can* build it to be OP.

[Faerunner]

Ranger/Druid! Animal companion + Spirit-shifting! I call dibs!

[Messier-31]

 

Nope, sorry

 

Nope = A barbarian that doesn't care?

Sorry = A humble monk?

 

More like "I couldn't care less about Warrior/Ranger/Cleric/Mage/Squirrel/Carrot/Communist builds".

 

IMHO they shoulda bring on the prestige class.

[Andraste]

Ranger/Druid! Animal companion + Spirit-shifting! I call dibs!

 

This is my plan for my 'canon' Watcher. Always wanted her to have an animal companion, and she already uses a bow.

 

If that combination isn't possible, I'll settle for a Druid with some chants.

[rheingold]

Not crazy about multi classing - it did quite a lot of damage to d&d. The kits or prestige classes are a good solution. I hope Obs put a lot of thought into this and don't wreck the game. At the moment the classes are actually in a good spot - I really hope that whatever changes they make, they don't mess it up.

[marelooke]

NWN2 seriously turned me off of multiclassing. Multiclass builds there were usually stupid powerful and they just made character creation (and evolution) complexity go through the roof. Not my idea of a good time.

[rheingold]

Yeah, sadly if they aren't careful I can already see the Fighter/Cipher 15/1 or Cipher/Barbarian 15/1 cheese dips coming... Nightmarish stuff

[Aotrs Commander]

D&D 3.x's multiclassing system was one of its best aspects (though to be fair, the old AD&D system had some merits as well). For tabletop at the vey least, I had absolutely no compunction in "class" becoming and entirely metagame construct. Not that I ever really believed in the sanctity of a class being a flavour and not a mechanical choice ever anyway - one of my current 3.x characters is a straight Cleric/monk whose spells have been completely reflavoured into Naruto-style jutsu and who calls himself a ninja.

 

Granted, you can't do the same with a CRPG, but even so.

 

(I have no loyalty or nostalgia to AD&D and earlier as either set of rules mechanics or an expereince, since AD&D was not my first RPG (HeroQuest), my second (Rolemaster - until 3.0 my system of choice and still is a close second) or even my third (Warhmmaer Fanatasy Roleplay), but the distance forth.)

 

I would hope that this would be following the former system, rather then rather pale attempt, say D&D 4E made. Wait, hang-on, didn't we actually get some multiclassing feats like 4E in PoE (it's been a while since I last played)? Or I am just going daft?

 

 

 

Come to that, my enduring memory is pretty much playing a duel-class Fighter/Mage every time I've played BG2 or Torment (in the sense I went to about Fighter 8-9 for the hit points, then swtiched to mage).

Edited January 27, 2017 by Aotrs Commander

[Boeroer]

As we already discussed in another thread:

 

Gotta love my cipher-barb. Soul Whip + Heart of Fury = Whoooohaaa!

 

Or my druid-monk-paladin: Wildstrike Burn + Greater Wildstrike Burn + Turning Wheel + Lightning Strikes + Flames of Devotion + Intense Flames + Scion of Flame.  

 

Such things need to get balanced or the whole game will be a joke even at "Supertricky Pothole Path of the Uberdamned".

[IndiraLightfoot]

I guess a limit could be put in: You have to take three consecutive levels at least when you pick a class or switch it. Just a suggestion.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Oh, now we have a stretch goal with subclasses as well, I mean what is this? PoE2, a cornu copiae of CRPG dreams?

Everything's just getting better by the day...

 

Yay!

[anameforobsidian]

The comments are a mine of interesting information:

 

Feargus DEVELOPER
@Superlovi - I totally understand your concern. What we've done is a couple of things - (1) We merged our universal game data editor into the engine (we didn't have time to do this on Eternity 1), that let's the designers balance things much more quickly, 2) we are starting with a system we already know, we aren't creating it and balancing it at the same time, and 3) We were incredibly lucky to have Dave Williams join the project - he's been a designer in both computer and board games, and was the creator of the Legend of the Five Rings card game. He's incredibly good with big complicated systems.

Edited January 27, 2017 by anameforobsidian

[floredon]

The comments are a mine of interesting information:

 

Feargus DEVELOPER

@Superlovi - I totally understand your concern. What we've done is a couple of things - (1) We merged our universal game data editor into the engine (we didn't have time to do this on Eternity 1), that let's the designers balance things much more quickly, 2) we are starting with a system we already know, we aren't creating it and balancing it at the same time, and 3) We were incredibly lucky to have Dave Williams join the project - he's been a designer in both computer and board games, and was the creator of the Legend of the Five Rings card game. He's incredibly good with big complicated systems.

Interesting that they hired someone with experience designing card games. POE digital CCG please (no, don't mention Pathfinder I know).

[Amentep]

Personally I think they should do strictly D&D style Dual Classing instead of multiclassing.  I may be the only one though.

[Dr <3]

I asked the question. Really hope that they will manage to do it ( a proper balance ). My real ray of Hope is the beta testing with early access to the players: at least the most obvious and abusive combos should be ruled out before games is completed.

[anameforobsidian]

I'll be interested to see how subclasses work out with multiclasses.  They could be a nice way to encourage single classing.

Edited January 27, 2017 by anameforobsidian

[Yonjuro]

 

 

Nope, sorry

 

Nope = A barbarian that doesn't care?

Sorry = A humble monk?

 

More like "I couldn't care less about Warrior/Ranger/Cleric/Mage/Squirrel/Carrot/Communist builds".

 

IMHO they shoulda bring on the prestige class.

 

 

 

 Yes, or fighter/barbarian/paladin.

 

 Makes sense - because a barbarian is like a fighter who loses something due to lack of discipline but gains something due to ferocity and a paladin is like a fighter who loses some raw power but gains abilities due to more discipline so, yeah, no,  it makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

 On the other hand, I guess flexibility is good, because players are free to play something that makes sense to them or to build the powergaming ubermunchkin of ubermunchkiness - whatever they like. (And, to be clear, I like me some ubermunchkiness every now and then).

 

 I think the reason for some of the crazy builds had to do with the power curve of the base classes. If, say,  a fighter grows rapidly and then levels off after level 9,  then taking levels in other classes for flexibility is a no-brainer. If a fighter continues to grow super-linearly, then taking a level in another class would be a genuine trade off (particularly in a system like D&D v. 3.x where the cost of gaining a level is exponential and based on the sum of all of the current levels). 

Edited January 27, 2017 by Yonjuro