Shadowrun: Hong Kong Kickstarter is UP!

[majestic]

 

Stats in order of usefulness for meeting checks in conversations and environment interactions:

 

Charisma = Intelligence > Strength > Body > Willpower > Quickness

 

As a shotgun mage, this is highly disappointing.

 

I don't think I like the new matrix. I just started, so it might grow on me, but the dissonance between time-based+character skill and real time+player skill is very real. I almost feel like I'm meant to get caught, then it plays like I'm used to. I think it's a flaw that high decking skill doesn't help with staying undetected. Btw, is there a way to use Suppression out of combat?

 

 

I don't think you can use programs out of combat, especially not supression. That would kind of defeat the purpose of trying to hide from Watcher ICs. I fully agree with your criticism by the way, everything you do in the matrix is far too dependent on your skill as player instead of your skill as character, especially the hacking minigame is bound to frustrate players who are not good at that sort of thing - and the force option is far too pricey to really consider it.

 

That would be semi-easy to fix, just scale the amount of trace you get from being caught or forcing blockers with the amount of decking skill the character has. Problem solved... mostly.

[sorophx]

Are you reading a different thread?  Everyone is gushing about it.

I only read this page, that was enough to convince me :D 

 

actually, I didn't like Dead Man's Switch, I liked some episodes in Dragonfall. but I really hate the graphics (both how they look on screen and the overall artistic style). also, I'm not too fond of this combat (I generally dislike turn-based RPGs, unless they copy Jagged Alliance 2 to a T).

 

so, yeah, I have reservations

[Majek]

It'll be a cold day in hell when we finally get a proper sequel to JA2 with everything improved, including combat. Sadly. ;_;

[Hurlshort]

It'll be a cold day in hell when we finally get a proper sequel to JA2 with everything improved, including combat. Sadly. ;_;

 

I'd be happy if someone just copied the combat.  I don't understand why they ever try and change the best system ever created.  

[Malcador]

Is pretty fun with my decker. Shame my sniper drone is not much of a sniper, hm.

[Keyrock]

My apologies to Orogun for my snide remark earlier, it was late, I was tired, but I should have resisted the temptation. 

 

Anyway, I've put almost 9 hours into the game and up to this point I've done exactly 1 run since "officially" becoming a shadowrunner.  So far, I've spent 75% of my time in-game engaged in conversation or reading narrative.  I imagine that would rub some people the wrong way, folks looking to have a lot more action and a lot less talking, but for me it's perfect. 

[majestic]

 

Are you reading a different thread?  Everyone is gushing about it.

I only read this page, that was enough to convince me :D 

 

actually, I didn't like Dead Man's Switch, I liked some episodes in Dragonfall. but I really hate the graphics (both how they look on screen and the overall artistic style). also, I'm not too fond of this combat (I generally dislike turn-based RPGs, unless they copy Jagged Alliance 2 to a T).

 

so, yeah, I have reservations

 

 

I love JA2 as much as anyone but that comparison is unfair. The Shadowrun games are RPGs, JA2 is a turn based tactical game with a real time strategy component. To expect any RPG to have combat on the same level of JA2 can only end up in a lot of disappointments.

[Gfted1]

I think TB combat has supplanted RTwP for me in RPG's. I vastly prefer it to the machine gun like pausing I had to do with PoE. Another benefit to me is never having any ambiguity on whether my party member turns are over or if they are just standing there doing nothing because they already performed their action and I didnt notice.

[sorophx]

 To expect any RPG to have combat on the same level of JA2 can only end up in a lot of disappointments.

you just described my post-JA2 gaming life

[Keyrock]

I think TB combat has supplanted RTwP for me in RPG's. I vastly prefer it to the machine gun like pausing I had to do with PoE. Another benefit to me is never having any ambiguity on whether my party member turns are over or if they are just standing there doing nothing because they already performed their action and I didnt notice.

I think RTwP is great if you're controlling a single character, fine if you're controlling 2.  Anything more than that and more often than not the real-time component winds up being a liability rather than an asset.  With 3 or more characters to control, unless the companion AI is really good, which it most often is not, a rather large amount of micromanagement is necessary, so I inevitably wind up pausing constantly, effectively turning the game into turn-based anyway, except a less intuitive and structured turn-based for the reason you listed.

[redneckdevil]

Ok running a troll adept with cyber ware razor claws. Focusing more on cyber ware and putting points into chi to get passive and nondamaging abilities. Charismatic **** with gang and socialite. Also gonna use a few spells if they fit his character. So far having a blast, but had to restart a few times due to not knowing about adepts and learning thru trial and error. A lot of my problems would have been answered if I actually paid attention to descriptions lmao.

Overall great game. Loved dead mans switch and dragonfall and tbh very happy they continued with the same mechanics and just added and tweeted them. Refreshing since I'm so used that everyone seems to think now a days that u have to completely change the entire mechanics of u ever do a sequel. Also loving all the dialogue ) feels great and really hoping they kickstart another Shadowrun game. IMHO I say keep them coming for as long as they can )

[213374U]

I think TB combat has supplanted RTwP for me in RPG's. I vastly prefer it to the machine gun like pausing I had to do with PoE. Another benefit to me is never having any ambiguity on whether my party member turns are over or if they are just standing there doing nothing because they already performed their action and I didnt notice.

 

I don't know about PoE (I logged about 6h on it before I got bored), but in the BG2 engine, there's a lot of auto-pause options (on spell cast, on round end, etc) that most people overlook. I won't say that effectively managing a 6-man group without it is impossible, but it's something I certainly wouldn't be able to do. Without auto-pause, I'd agree with you. With, I actually prefer RTwP...

 

In other news, I encountered another really weird bug with one of the vendors making references to a run I didn't go on, while standing right next to a replacement for said vendor that talks as though the vendor was gone... dafuq.

[HoonDing]

Turn-based or RtwP doesn't matter to me, what matters most is that combat is over relatively quickly.

 

Turn-based games like Blackguards and Original Sin have some huge maps with plethora of enemies that move and animate very slowly. It makes combat a boring chore.

Jrpgs where one needs to wait half a minute for unskippable special attack animations to finish are even worse.

Edited August 24, 2015 by HoonDing

[ShadySands]

I have one extra GOG key iffen anyone needs. Pm me por favor

[Darkpriest]

 

I think TB combat has supplanted RTwP for me in RPG's. I vastly prefer it to the machine gun like pausing I had to do with PoE. Another benefit to me is never having any ambiguity on whether my party member turns are over or if they are just standing there doing nothing because they already performed their action and I didnt notice.

 

I don't know about PoE (I logged about 6h on it before I got bored), but in the BG2 engine, there's a lot of auto-pause options (on spell cast, on round end, etc) that most people overlook. I won't say that effectively managing a 6-man group without it is impossible, but it's something I certainly wouldn't be able to do. Without auto-pause, I'd agree with you. With, I actually prefer RTwP...

 

In other news, I encountered another really weird bug with one of the vendors making references to a run I didn't go on, while standing right next to a replacement for said vendor that talks as though the vendor was gone... dafuq.

 

 

yeah, but constant auto-pauses break the flow of combat, I'd rather have a full TB than 6men party RTwP, where you get to pauses every 2s to change orders, position, cast spells, etc.

[Orogun01]

 

 

I think TB combat has supplanted RTwP for me in RPG's. I vastly prefer it to the machine gun like pausing I had to do with PoE. Another benefit to me is never having any ambiguity on whether my party member turns are over or if they are just standing there doing nothing because they already performed their action and I didnt notice.

 

I don't know about PoE (I logged about 6h on it before I got bored), but in the BG2 engine, there's a lot of auto-pause options (on spell cast, on round end, etc) that most people overlook. I won't say that effectively managing a 6-man group without it is impossible, but it's something I certainly wouldn't be able to do. Without auto-pause, I'd agree with you. With, I actually prefer RTwP...

 

In other news, I encountered another really weird bug with one of the vendors making references to a run I didn't go on, while standing right next to a replacement for said vendor that talks as though the vendor was gone... dafuq.

 

 

yeah, but constant auto-pauses break the flow of combat, I'd rather have a full TB than 6men party RTwP, where you get to pauses every 2s to change orders, position, cast spells, etc.

 

TB is fine with me as long as the party/enemies numbers stay small and the enemy turn goes fast. Nothing that I hate more than having to watch 15 enemies walk in slow motion towards your 4 party members. SR:HK seems to have good handle on it.

[sorophx]

all this "RTWP vs TB" talk is pointless, since phase-based is the superior system of the three.

[Humanoid]

I can't deal with a party of six these days no matter what kind of system is used. Even four is pushing it, but I'll tolerate it if the game is good enough.

[ShadySands]

I have one extra GOG key iffen anyone needs. PM me por favor

Gone

Edited August 25, 2015 by ShadySands

[Gfted1]

I don't know about PoE (I logged about 6h on it before I got bored), but in the BG2 engine, there's a lot of auto-pause options (on spell cast, on round end, etc) that most people overlook. I won't say that effectively managing a 6-man group without it is impossible, but it's something I certainly wouldn't be able to do. Without auto-pause, I'd agree with you. With, I actually prefer RTwP...

I'm not sure what changed, I used to love to micro-manage the hell out of my BG2 party. PoE was the first RTwP game Ive played in a while and to me combat was a terribly confusing dogpile. I'm hoping Sword Coast Legends fares better for me.

[Keyrock]

 

I'm not sure what changed, I used to love to micro-manage the hell out of my BG2 party. PoE was the first RTwP game Ive played in a while and to me combat was a terribly confusing dogpile. I'm hoping Sword Coast Legends fares better for me.

 

I think for me what really wore me out about the combat in Pillars was just how incredibly samey it all was.  With a few exceptions, very few exceptions, every combat encounter felt almost exactly the same, despite the decent enemy variety.  With almost every battle feeling almost identical combined with the sheer amount of combat in the game it got to be a real slog eventually.  That and the story was simply not interesting enough to make me eager to keep grinding through the combat.  I don't remember if the combat variety was better in BG2 or if it was a case of the story being interesting enough to help keep me excited to continue, or maybe I just had more patience back then?  I don't think patience is the issue, I spent just as long with Wasteland 2 as with Pillars and W2 had quite a bit of combat too and I never got bored with it.

 

Anyway, sorry to continue the derailing of this topic.  In my current game when doing the Neville Ma mission

after I defeated Ku Feng I let her live and let her keep her life with Neville Ma and I have no desire to expose her.  If she and Neville are happy together that's good for them.  To be honest I felt kind of bad about screwing with Neville, since I like him better than the guy I'm working for, Dr. Shenyang.  But, a job's a job and I did just enough to fulfill my end (got Ku Feng to influence Neville to fire Penelope), after that my contract is fulfilled and I hope Neville is successful.  I am, however, looking forward to helping Ku Feng become the Vampire Queen of Hong Kong, assuming that conversation option leads anywhere, when I play a much more nefarious character in a future playthrough. 

 

[Orogun01]

I'm I remembering wrong or did DragonFall had the option to go back before you started a level? Because if it did, then they did a major step backwards and removed it.

[213374U]

I'm I remembering wrong or did DragonFall had the option to go back before you started a level? Because if it did, then they did a major step backwards and removed it.

 

You mean rewind the save? You can still do that. As far as I can tell, the save system is exactly the same as in Dragonfall. Is that what you're referring to?

[Oner]

all this "RTWP vs TB" talk is pointless, since phase-based is the superior system of the three.

Whazzat?

[Malcador]

 

all this "RTWP vs TB" talk is pointless, since phase-based is the superior system of the three.

Whazzat?

 

Googling indicates that it involves planning and execution phases, so you plan moves, the AI does and then everything gets acted out. I guess it cuts the payoff of negative tactics ? I've never played a game with it, at least any I can recall - possibly something in a wargame.