New stretch goals for companions and wilderness areas?

[Kyrielle]

I'm voting yes, but tentatively. I'd love to see all the character classes as companions, just for maximum flexibility. I'd like additional wilderness areas only if they can be well-fleshed out and meaningful. If they're just there for me to slog across, then no matter how pretty I wouldn't want that.

 

But all of this is contingent on not delaying the game release too much, as others have also said. I don't want to see a net schedule slip of more than a couple months, it's just not worth it. It can wait for an expansion better than delay the game. I know making games takes time, but oh how I want to be playing this one!

[neo6874]

screw the wilderness, add more levels to the endless dungeon

 

Honestly though, I'm a bit torn -- more wilderness would be fun ... so long as they keep things balanced properly.  What I mean is that, in BG1 for example, yeah I could go into the Cloakwood right after leaving Candlekeep ... buuut would get beat to hell by mooks intended for a ECL4 party (just making up the ECL).  

 

I don't want to see it being direct level scaling (because that's the worst) ... but throwing more mooks at you ... e.g. in D&D, a ECL 2 random combat might be 4 mooks, L3/2/2/1.  a ECL 10 encounter might end up being 8 mooks, topping out at L6/7 instead of (still) only 4 mooks who're all L10(or higher, because mooks are "always" [you + 1 level] in that game).

 

 

Granted, I'm saying this under the assumption that the player is intended to walk around to where ever they want, and aren't so much "on rails" (e.g. "You can find your stronghold at L1 by walking northwest ... but it's 10 areas, and the last 6 you have to run away from mooks because they'll kill you fast" is OK ... but "you can't get your stronghold until you finish [tasks], and then get a map pin" is not).

 

Furthermore, I'm only talking about "random encounter" mooks and not necessarily "quest mooks". E.g. if you choose to walk through "Forest Area #4 of Eir Glanfath" at L2 (Ch. 1), because you want to ... you'll see spiders, bugbears, trolls, goblins, orcs, whatever, maybe run across a Bandit Camp (but there's only a few guys there) -- but then in Ch. 2, a farmer in Twin Elms mentions that the bandits kidnapped his kid (so the bandit leader and a lot of bandits are there now).

[Polyhedron]

Reading this thread I'm somewhat surprised that I seem to be such an minority (at least among the vocal people) that I couldn't care less about more companions (eight close relationships seems more than I could handle even RL) but would be delighted with expansive wilderness settings.

 

I guess that makes me more of an explorer than a socialite. Time to drink my own pee.

 

(voted for second-round-monetizing, but will withhold judgement on chipping in til I see details)

[Trodat]

Reading this thread I'm somewhat surprised that I seem to be such an minority (at least among the vocal people) that I couldn't care less about more companions (eight close relationships seems more than I could handle even RL) but would be delighted with expansive wilderness settings.

 

I guess that makes me more of an explorer than a socialite. Time to drink my own pee.

 

(voted for second-round-monetizing, but will withhold judgement on chipping in til I see details)

I agree with you on this one. But I guess having maybe one or two more wouldn't hurt either. The first expansion is a better way of bringing more companions along, with some new classes and so on.

 

Having more areas to explore tho that would be pretty cool, and right now it is a good moment for extra stretch goals because of the new trailer.

 

[Endrosz]

What, over 70% who voted want the game delayed?

 

Re: More companions

 

I recently replayed NWN2 OC and MotB back-to-back, and I have to say that while the latter has far less talking companions (11 vs 5), the party experience is still leagues better there. OC is spread thin is this regard, the more focused but at the same time more branching, more complex approach of MotB felt a lot more rewarding. Just like a few people said, more than 8 companions is... a burden for me, even though I'm perfectly aware that I don't need to take them on. 8 is more than enough to create a ton of inter-party banter and reactivity, I say. MotB was able to get very far with just 4 at a time (since you can't get both Okku and One of Many in a single playthrough).

 

Re: More wilderness areas

 

After PoE is out, we can have a GAZILLIONOODLEVASTHEAP of expansions, sequels and the like. With digital distribution and an IP they own (so they gain a lot more revenue from sales than a simple contract bonus) and the opportunity to do more crowdfunding for new projects, the road's open before Obsidian, the blocks have been removed. It's not like this game, as it will be, is only thing that can satiate your appetite for an IE-style RPG in this entire century... There will be room for more, there will be time for more, so don't act like impatient children wanting all the gifts ever, now.

 

TL;DR

 

Don't delay this game, please. Obsidian can and will do more IE-style goodness after PoE ships, rest assured.

[mwinding]

Kind of funny to say people who are willing to wait longer are impatient children...

[Stun]

^And the argument is meaningless guesswork anyway.   Nowhere, in any interview, post, or video has any Obsidian dev claimed that  the addition of more wilderness areas and 3 new companions will  lead to "huge catostrophic delays"

 

I wonder how  the vote results would go if BAdler or Josh or whoever would have come on here and pointed out, in the OP, that the Wilderness areas would be outsourced  (thus costing  extra money, and not extra time), for example.

[ambrusynev]

In an ideal case I would love to see a few more new companions to expand my options for my 'ideal' party because I prefer using interesting and well-designed companions above clean sheet Adventurers Hall characters.

[Thrasher91604]

I'd prefer not to base my input on speculation. With no additional information on the impact to schedule and QA/testing, I vote no. If they can keep on schedule and maintain the quality, I vote yes. But I've already thrown enough money at this kickstarter, and want to see results before they get any more $$$.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Thrasher91604

[J.E. Sawyer]

I wonder how  the vote results would go if BAdler or Josh or whoever would have come on here and pointed out, in the OP, that the Wilderness areas would be outsourced  (thus costing  extra money, and not extra time), for example.

 

They would require design time for the content, though again, we're not talking about massive increases of development time.

[insidious89]

My trust for Obsidian goes beyond the call of fan duty. 

I would love new stretch goals so that this game will be expanded further to please old RPG fans and welcome new ones.

[Endrosz]

^And the argument is meaningless guesswork anyway.   Nowhere, in any interview, post, or video has any Obsidian dev claimed that  the addition of more wilderness areas and 3 new companions will  lead to "huge catostrophic delays"

Quote from the OP by Brandon Adler:

 

Even so, there are two things we know a lot of you have asked for: more wilderness areas and more companions. Both of these are very time-consuming, but we understand why so many people want them

 

 

 

They have a current production schedule, which needs to be expanded to accommodate the additional content. Unless they're time wizards or something.

 

Re: Impatience

Yes, I'm the more patient one, because I'm willing to wait more for stuff that's not in the current production plan than people who want that content in "vanilla" PoE. My point is that don't feel that you're losing anything if you don't vote for more content. There'll be tons more content for this world even if these goals are not added -- it'll just happen in another form, later down the road.

[Archmage Silver]

I wouldn't mind additional stretch goals to fund the development of additional content. I'll throw some money down myself if they become reality!

[iampolo]

I didn't read all the posts so i don't know if this has been answered, but i wonder what would imply adding strech goals to the development of the core game.

That being said, im kind of indiferent to this. While i would like some new wilderness and companions i'm not that crazy about it right now. On the other side i don't mind waiting a little more for the content to be developed.

 

Yay here comes my first post in the forums (although i've been reading almost every update thread).

[Gfted1]

Im not at all interested in more "wilderness" (I shudder at the thought of more area to traverse back to a rest spot) but I would definitely like more companions. At least one of every class to fill in gaps and play with party builds.

[Alias_Alias]

You should make a money counter like athers

:D i think when we the people see how close it is to the next stretch goal we will pay more :D

AND of course make more Goals. I can wait 3-4 mounth more.

[SirBlackjack]

I also hope for deeper characters rather than more areas.

[rjshae]

If they do this, it would be nice if they specifically set out to produce several wilderness areas that are dramatically different from the existing types. I'm not sure how much they can do that and still remain in the same map area, but it could make things more interesting and appealing.

[Darth Trethon]

I would love and back additional stretch goals but remember that only the most passionate fans are here on the forums so naturally this vote will be in favor of expanding the game. I hopes this turns into a success if you do decide to go for it.

[Bofast]

I think it would be better to save additional areas, companions etc. for an expansion. Just make it a crazy good expansion

[Osvir]

OF COURSE... I'd love more companions...
OF COURSE... I'd love more areas....

CON/ISSUE!
- Will the game come out later rather than earlier if this is the case?

SOLUTION #1!
- Release the game as intended, but the "more areas" and "more companions" in a separate development and/or separate release. Maybe even make it episodical release post-release.<

 

ISSUE WITH SOLUTION #1!
- Many people will finish the game in a weekend and might not play it much more than that. Adding content post-release in this manner is thus risky as many would have to play the game from beginning again to experience the new content added.

SOLUTION #2! SOMEWHAT RISKY TOO BUT INTERESTING!
- Let's say Eternity has Three Acts (as is common), leave out the 3rd Act entirely, make the 3rd Act entirely Episodical. Maybe split Act Three up in 5 "Episodes" even, and if you get the funds for more areas and more companions, you could squeeze in these areas and companions over a short period and at the same time work towards the games climax/ending.

ISSUE WITH SOLUTION #2!
- This is risky because that'd leave the Developers in an awkward position, basically releasing 2/3rds of a finished product first, and then resorting to an episodical finale. It could be bad... but it could be very interesting as well. It'd make these "more areas" and "more companions" be a part of the story rather than being in an expansion pack, it'd make a coherant experience for these new areas and for these new companions, they'd be part of the full experience rather than being something "tacked on" to the existing one. Imagine if Telltale's Walking Dead was released as a 2/3rds product (unfinished basically) and then they'd add more stuff later onto the original experience... the game or the experience wouldn't have been as good... but instead, they actually made 1/5th at a time, releasing little by little of the game, eventually we (the Players/Gamers) got the full experience.

PROS!
- More areas :D
- More companions :D

------------------------------------------

Finally, what would be the best business model here? Fund Obsidian a little bit more and get the Eternity game a few months later because they need to develop more areas and companions? That'd be the most simplest method for a full experience...

Or would it be better to release what has been intended and then release more companions and more areas as an add-on pack later and thus creating a separate experience? I'd like to avoid this if possible...

Or finally... Would it even be better to release the game episodically so that all content can go into one and?

I'm split, partially because my knowledge is lacking here on what would be the best method, but all I know is that I want a "full" experience, and the only 2 ways I know that can give this "full" experience is A) Release the entire game in one go, or B) Release the game bit by bit in form of Episodes (Note: NOT Expansions... I consider StarCraft II to be an episodical game btw).

Tales of the Sword Coast is an Expansion, StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty and Heart of the Swarm are episodes. Telltale's Walking Dead is also episodical (of course).

Do you get what I'm trying to convey?

Episodical Content: Release 10% at a time (Til it hits 100%)
Expansions: Release extra content post-release (so, release 100% of the game, then add % to it)

Expansions (DLC is an Expansion too) has the problem wherein you play the 100% of the game (if you are an early adaptor), then suddenly new stuff gets put into the game you just finished, making it feel (as a Player) that you've only played 90% of the game.

Episodical content does not make the game lacking in any way, and if you are an early adaptor of it it just makes the experience even more awesome (at least for Walking Dead, even though I finished an episode in 2-3 hours or less and had to wait a couple of weeks for the next episode, it was a great experience)... but would it work for an RPG with only 12 character levels?

A late adaptor gets 100% of the content from both of these methods btw, but in Eternity's case and for many of our cases, we are not going to be late adaptors, are we now?

Here's how I think an episodical release of Eternity could work, if it has 3 Acts:

- Release Date: Release only Act 1 Complete
- Week 2, release 1/3 of Act 2
- Week 4, release 2/3 of Act 2
- Week 6, release 3/3 of Act 2, Act 2 Complete
- Week 8, release 1/3 of Act 3
- Week 10, release 2/3 of Act 3
- Week 12, release 3/3 of Act 3 Act 3 Complete

As you might notice, I just pushed the release date of the entire game back 12 weeks. Why? Because it'd allow Obsidian more development time for more companions and more wilderness areas whilst delivering the game partially in time.

I want to guess and appoximate of how much time it takes for Obsidian to create an area but... I have no clue. So how much time does it approximately take for an area to finish? Luckily for me Brandon talks about it in this Update: this is how long it takes for a small area. About 13 man days (according to Brandon in that thread). Man days I presume are days that Obsidian is working (no weekends in other words), so that's 2 weeks and a half week of development for a small area.

Doing a quick headcount using my built in calender (on the computer), I count about 40 areas that Obsidian could create for Eternity in the time-frame they've given us (I counted 2 areas every month from October 2012 to about May 2014). 40 areas is a stretch and is an exaggeration on my part, because I'm only counting small areas, but at least 30 might be a given(?).

So let's do a count here: 15 of those 30 is no doubt Od Nua, 2 Big Cities are maybe 4 or 5 each (maybe more?), so we're left with...

 

5-7 Wilderness Areas?

But having these numbers in front of me gives me some insight... if Obsidian would add 2 more Wilderness areas, that'd be 1 and a half month delay. If they'd add 4 more areas, that'd be 3 months delay etc. etc. unless, of course, they'd choose to either swap some previous Stretch Goals that take their time or release some of these added content at a later date.

Additionally, they could make the Mega-Dungeon smaller (12 levels) and put 3 of those levels into Wilderness creation instead.

You should make a poll about that as well Obsidian: "Could the Mega-Dungeon be smaller so that the overland exploration gets bigger?" or something like that.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Osvir

[Stun]

Here's how I think an episodical release of Eternity could work, if it has 3 Acts:

 

- Release Date: Release only Act 1 Complete

- Week 2, release 1/3 of Act 2

- Week 4, release 2/3 of Act 2

- Week 6, release 3/3 of Act 2, Act 2 Complete

- Week 8, release 1/3 of Act 3

- Week 10, release 2/3 of Act 3

- Week 12, release 3/3 of Act 3 Act 3 Complete

Are you being sarcastic? That's got to be the stupidest idea I've ever heard. The industry is already suffering from the disgusting disease of micro-transaction gaming. The hopelessly tragic practice of publishers and devs milking us dry with bare-boned games that need a billion DLCs to make the experience feel whole. Yet you want them to expand on that nickel and diming garbage by denying us the ability to get even the BASE game all at once?

 

Go away, please.

 

And, PS:

Additionally, they could make the Mega-Dungeon smaller (12 levels) and put 3 of those levels into Wilderness creation instead.

No. they couldn't. We earned a 15 level mega dungeon. Not a 12 level mega dungeon. And they're finished with it anyway, so this is a moot non-point/suggestion from you. Edited December 12, 2013 by Stun

[Sensuki]

That's Osvir for ya.

[Quadrone]

 

I wonder how  the vote results would go if BAdler or Josh or whoever would have come on here and pointed out, in the OP, that the Wilderness areas would be outsourced  (thus costing  extra money, and not extra time), for example.

 

They would require design time for the content, though again, we're not talking about massive increases of development time.

 

 

Well, "massive" is still a hard to quantify word, so this doesn't really reassure me.

The release date for PE is inoffically(?) Winter 2014, so with roughly a development time of two years a delay of 2-3 months would not be "massive" but could push PE into 2015 which I'm not much in favor of.

 

My non-expert opinion: If there will be additional Stretchgoals put this extra content in a post release free DLC or the expansion. None of it should be critical to the game itself so why delay everything for some bonus stuff?

[Hiro Protagonist II]

The game being released in small instalments over 3 months and having to wait two weeks for the next part? No thanks.