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Stretch Goals?  

2,052 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like Obsidian to release new stretch goals to go along with the opening of the Backer Portal?

    • I would love new stretch goals.
      1591
    • No, I would prefer if Obsidian did not introduce new stretch goals.
      458


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In my opinion this game looks too much like a Baldur's Gate ripoff. The new gameplay video has confirmed this feeling that I always had. This is not what I wanted.

Dude what?

 

 

I know it can sound odd. This game aims to be the Baldur's Gate rightful heir after all.

But let me tell you something: being a rigthful heir doesn't mean to mirror your predecessor in every aspect. It means going on without betraying your predecessor's legacy.

 

Obsidian's developers aren't certainly betraying any legacy.

What they are missing (at least judging from what I've seen up until now) is the MOVING ON part.

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As far as I've seen Pillars of Eternity is shaping up to be a dive in the past that will involve too much reading

 

 

Well, you don't like to read, but you like to write :D (joke inside).

 

If you have any hope yet about Dragon Age, i'm afraid that you would be an eternal deceived guy. Same thing if you hope Torment for 2014. The Witcher is really a great license, but i never could play it... In my opinion, and like said a website i read, to me PE is both old and new. Just matter of taste here. But your post surprised me a lot.

 

Last but not least, i would say once more than i don't think you can bring the elements we speak about here in an add on. Just too hard to make these elements blend into the core game.

Edited by Abel

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I know it can sound odd. This game aims to be the Baldur's Gate rightful heir after all.

But let me tell you something: being a rigthful heir doesn't mean to mirror your predecessor in every aspect. It means going on without betraying your predecessor's legacy.

 

Obsidian's developers aren't certainly betraying any legacy.

What they are missing (at least judging from what I've seen up until now) is the MOVING ON part.

 

Ok... so give an example of this "moving on" you are talking about.

And how will Torment achieve this, while Eternity didn't

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Last but not least, i would say once more than i don't think you can bring the elements we speak about here in an add on. Just to hard to make these elements blend into the core game.

 

 

I agree with you. That's why they should focus on shipping the game, use it as a test to see what are the IE features they absolutely need to keep in the future PoE's installments and ditch everything else in order to build a franchise that can stand on its own legs.

 

Everyone here loves Baldur's Gate, but how many people outside this place would love an Infinity Engine game in 2013, even with updated graphics and animations? Not many.

 

I tried to play through BG2 once again recently and I literally hated its inventory management system, its dialogue system with tiny eye-breaking letters and no voiceovers, all the thrash mob encounters, the wandering mobs that interrupted the flow of the game etc. I have great memories about playing that game, but right now it is obsolete and its graphics are the lesser problem.

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It sounds like you're looking for another cinema console game. Where every interaction is like a movie cutscene. Where melee fights are made of flashing lights and hit combo text is displayed over every hit and inventory is restricted to picking up, using and selling all in 1 button command.

 

This is exactly what the majority of people came here to get away from.

First, you can't achieve voiceover and nonstop cutscenes with this type of budget.

Secondly the game was intentionally made for readers, mainly for people who prefer books over films. If you don't understand why someone would prefer that, this game REALLY isn't for you.

And i think you will be greatly disappointed by Torment as well, as it WILL have a lot of reading, and considering their budget, will also have only partly voiced dialogue.

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I know it can sound odd. This game aims to be the Baldur's Gate rightful heir after all.

But let me tell you something: being a rigthful heir doesn't mean to mirror your predecessor in every aspect. It means going on without betraying your predecessor's legacy.

 

Obsidian's developers aren't certainly betraying any legacy.

What they are missing (at least judging from what I've seen up until now) is the MOVING ON part.

 

Ok... so give an example of this "moving on" you are talking about.

And how will Torment achieve this, while Eternity didn't

 

 

Here's an example: when the developers posted their first UI mock up some months ago the community gave many useful suggestions. What I felt during in that discussion was that they were scared of making any real changes to what the UI concept was because they didn't want to steer away too much from Baldur's Gate and all its brothers.

 

Look at Torment instead: its developers have chosen to use a Turn Based Combat System and not one based on Real Time With Pause. That is not a groundbreaking feature and the developers made a poll to make shure that their supporters' base was not against it, but this shows that the InXile's guys are not scared to make design decision that go against some of the core Infinity Engine features.

 

I don't want to say that Torment is better than Pillars of Eternity. I supported the latter and not the first. What I want to say is that when PoE will ship no one will like the remake of a 13 years old game, at least in my opinion.

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It sounds like you're looking for another cinema console game. Where every interaction is like a movie cutscene. Where melee fights are made of flashing lights and hit combo text is displayed over every hit and inventory is restricted to picking up, using and selling all in 1 button command.

 

This is exactly what the majority of people came here to get away from.

First, you can't achieve voiceover and nonstop cutscenes with this type of budget.

Secondly the game was intentionally made for readers, mainly for people who prefer books over films. If you don't understand why someone would prefer that, this game REALLY isn't for you.

And i think you will be greatly disappointed by Torment as well, as it WILL have a lot of reading, and considering their budget, will also have only partly voiced dialogue.

 

I played Mass Effect at my friend's house once. After 10 minutes I was literally pissed off of being interrupted by a cutscene every 30 seconds.

I hate cinema console games as much as you do. And I hated Dragon Age when its developers tried to make it that kind of game (Dragon Age 2).

 

I know that a full voiceover game is impossible with the budget available, but it is possible to innovate the gameplay, the user interface, the combat system, crafting, player housing... try something different. But I've seen nothing of that so far.

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That's really a bad example, turn based versus real time pause combat, hardly indicates any "moving on" .

Temple of Elemental Evil already had this feature.

And give an example of how do you believe a UI should look like then. Like modern MMOs have?

 

EDIT

on http://www.obsidian.net/ website you can see how people voted on what they imagine what the game should be like

Temple of elemental evil was among it so i'm pretty sure people would prefer the real time combat over turn based in this game.

Edited by Cubiq

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That's really a bad example, turn based versus real time pause combat, hardly indicates any "moving on" .

Temple of Elemental Evil already had this feature.

And give an example of how do you believe a UI should look like then. Like modern MMOs have?

 

EDIT

on http://www.obsidian.net/ website you can see how people voted on what they imagine what the game should be like

Temple of elemental evil was among it so i'm pretty sure people would prefer the real time combat over turn based in this game.

 

As you wish. I don't have to suggest solutions anyways. I'm here just to emphasize what I consider a problem of this game.

 

Finding a way to move on from Infinity Engine games and make PoE somewhat innovative is the developers' taks.

I'm one of those who pay and they are those who get payed after all.

 

This doesn't mean they have to listen to me of course. I'm just ONE of those who pay. If the others have different ideas and like a BG remake is their right to voice their opinion.

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No i'm just asking you what you mean by innovative, and that you give more examples of what you would consider to be innovative because it sounds like the only reason you want it to be different is for the sake that it's different.

 

-The developers already said that you will be able to sneak past or talk your way out of encounters or trash mobs and complete the objectives in different ways, and the small text you complained about is really only the poor resolution of the game that is now blown out on your high rez monitor.

 

-And still i don't get what you wish from a different UI. I think the portraits are important to be there, because that is the only way to identify the characters in the game, since you can only see small 3d models of them.

 

-We will have alchemy to make potions in the game and able to enhance armor and items. Armor will also have durability that you will have to repair.

 

-We don't get a house for the player, but we get a stronghold (epic house?) that we will manage with lots of events that will be tied to it.

 

-Combat we haven't really seen, but you will have a melee engagement system where if you move close to an enemy they will be locked in combat with you and stop moving and if they try to move away they will have a good chance of being hit which makes running for cover like in BG games completely different. And Fighters will be able to engage 3 enemies at once, and prevent them from moving, so i think that's already a pretty big difference. (in my opinion a bad one as i feel it will make combat too static) And some classes will be able to do aoe melee damage, so it should make positioning more important. Also you will have to manage your stamina or risk getting knocked unconscious. And there won't be any kind of healing in the game other than resting.

 

Soooooooo....an example of what you want from it to be different would make it a lot easier to understand.

Edited by Cubiq

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Well it depends whether they have money spare that they don't know what to spend on. I'd rather know if that extra wilderness area is going to cut into the amount of VO or portraits or whatever.

 

I am not going to vote unless that is elaborated on.

 

I am with Sensuki on this subject, but it would be nice if the Endless Paths were expanded to the lowest levels possible (at the very least making it down to the statue's feet).

An expansive library of crafting recipes, and perhaps even, an ability to "combo-enchant" items with multiple enchantments would be rather nice, if your character possesses the sufficient proficiency necessary to do so.

 

Other than that, additional stretch goals should be reserved for the Expansion Pack. One such idea I would like to expand upon (assuming we're playing the same character in the expansion pack) is turning your Stronghold into something more than just a nifty base... perhaps the player would like to dabble in empire-building, and thus using your Stronghold as the capital of your newly founded nation? Explore researching technology and arcane tech? Some elements of RTS for the stronghold.

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I'm just curious, if there would be new stretch goals, would there also be new backer options like you now have with the design npc/adventuring party/inn backer options?

 

I mean I'm still poor, but you never know that might change! :p And these options are so very enticing.


Remember: Argue the point, not the person. Remain polite and constructive. Friendly forums have friendly debate. There's no shame in being wrong. If you don't have something to add, don't post for the sake of it. And don't be afraid to post thoughts you are uncertain about, that's what discussion is for.
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Pet threads, everyone has them. I love imagining Gods, Monsters, Factions and Weapons.

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So long as the original stretch goals are not diminished or in any way short-changed, another companion and/or another wilderness area would be very welcome.


http://cbrrescue.org/

 

Go afield with a good attitude, with respect for the wildlife you hunt and for the forests and fields in which you walk. Immerse yourself in the outdoors experience. It will cleanse your soul and make you a better person.----Fred Bear

 

http://michigansaf.org/

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As long as the team does not get overwhelmed attempting to deliver so many things in a set timeline (rushed)… I am all for backing your efforts to make this dream even better.

“People + Expectations = No Solutions”.

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Knowledge and harmony, an isometric universal path. May this be our next epic quest immortalized! Seek the crest where the fish and dragon meet…

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I Desperately want any extra money to fill in any gaps of repetition. (Now having the choice to grind is something else altogether though.) Whether that's in the types of quests, or having the same swing or attack for everyone including monsters, or having the same music looping, etc. As much as I want a big world to explore, if it's the same stuff re-skinned all the way through just to fill space, I despise that & really want a game I can actually play through several times and get a different experience each time. I know they are doing a decent job systematically with some things, but I'm hoping for something a bit more organic feeling with animations, and game play mechanics.

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As you wish. I don't have to suggest solutions anyways. I'm here just to emphasize what I consider a problem of this game.

 

Finding a way to move on from Infinity Engine games and make PoE somewhat innovative is the developers' taks.

I'm one of those who pay and they are those who get payed after all.

 

This doesn't mean they have to listen to me of course. I'm just ONE of those who pay. If the others have different ideas and like a BG remake is their right to voice their opinion.

 

There's no way they can satisfy everybody (including, apparently, you), but I think they've been innovative enough. It's a trade-off between supplying what people expect in terms of an IE-like nostalgic experience while implementing more state-of-the art gaming functionality. It isn't necessary to re-invent the gaming experience in order to provide an enjoyable game, so I find it odd that people are always grousing about it. Many artists that follow the innovation road aren't always well received (in their lifetime), and in the end people aren't as receptive to creativity as we'd like to believe.

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"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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Everyone here loves Baldur's Gate, but how many people outside this place would love an Infinity Engine game in 2013, even with updated graphics and animations? Not many.

Say what? Try 70,000+. 10s of thousands of people. 10s of thousands of people who would love such a thing so much that they have effectively Pre-ordered this game 2 years in advance to prove their eagerness, after watching a Kickstarter video who's entire message was: "Do you love the IE games? So do we. So we're gonna make a game like them. Back Us."

 

As for "moving on". I don't know. "Moving on" has not been adequately defined in this discussion. I imagine, though, that most people here are absolutely delighted in the fact that we're getting a new campaign, taking place in a new world, and featuring new races, new classes, and a new Ruleset - all totally different from Baldurs Gate, contrary to your claim that the game so far looks like a BG ripoff.

Edited by Stun
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I would love new stretch goals, particularly if they expanded the Mega-dungeon to even greater depths. Adding more companions gets to be tricky, if there are too many companions it's possible that some of them would be watered down personality wise.

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I'd prefer to have a smaller companion pool but with more character depth to them.

 

BG1 had 25 companions, but they had almost no personality and world interactions aside from combat.

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// believing is bleeding

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In my opinion this game looks too much like a Baldur's Gate ripoff. The new gameplay video has confirmed this feeling that I always had. This is not what I wanted.

 

I didn't pledge my money to this game because I wanted to play Baldur's Gate in a new setting, I pledged my money because I wanted a great new roleplaying game with branching storylines, great agency for the player, a great story and choices that mattered. Dragon Age II had greatly disappointed me at that time and I was looking for something better. I was hoping that the developers were going to keep some basic IE features (like the isometric view, the six players party and the real-time-with-pause combat system) and ditch pretty much everything else in favour of a more modern approach, but so far I've been disappointed.

 

 

I like the way you calmly try to explain your feelings where it's obvious you feel alone here.  It's some kind of courage, and i appreciate it (really). The way you think is somehow interesting to me.

 

So, you're ok with isometric, reactivity, great story, RTwP and all this stuff. hum... I don't understand what you dislike. All this is the very core of PE since the very start. The reading? but we all knew that the reading was important here because the game is not voiced (and no one here want it to be). Plus i've read that Torment will have EVEN MORE reading, hugely more... Like Planescape.

 

The limited number of foreign translations? Well i feel lucky for the french one. My english is not good enough to be able to really taste subtilties of the language.

 

The IE feeling of the game that make you feel you will just have one more playthrough of BG while you just can't play it anymore? yeah, hard for me to play it again too. Too much thousands hours on it since 15 years. Plus it is not a copy. BG was not perfect, and Obs try to create kind of IE experience, not a brand new IE game.

 

Well, i wonder... have you read interviews and stuff? It's true that the feeling is very BG, but it's very PE too. Maybe you will be surprised experiencing the game later.

 

EDIT: Oh, and i'm not sure that backers would be happy if Obs was to ship Eternity like a "test" for future developments... Besides, the franchise would be quite untrustful, as the dev Studio.

Edited by Abel

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I'd prefer to have a smaller companion pool but with more character depth to them.

 

BG1 had 25 companions, but they had almost no personality and world interactions aside from combat.

Well, the point of making them stretch goals is to develop new companions with just as much depth* as the ones they have already/have been developing. I'm not sure what they're aiming scope-wise, but on a scale from Baldur's Gate 1 to Planescape: Torment, it should be closer to the second.

 

* I'm using depth here as in "amount of reactivity, dialogue trees, time spent developing them", regardless of whether their personalities, looks, voiceset and stats makeup will be developed and interesting or shallow and uninspired

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Count me in. 


For Firedorn all the Lads grieve

 

This Adam woke up next to Eve.

 

But beneath leaves of Fig,

 

He found Berries and Twig,

 

So Himself off a cliff he did heave.

 

 

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