Please Obsidian: don't bite more than you can chew

[Superdeluxe]

You don't trust OE, because if you did you wouldn't worry about them over extending themselves

[moridin84]

You don't trust OE, because if you did you wouldn't worry about them over extending themselves

Indeed.

[Ieo]

The answer is very simple...

 

In the matter of trust, you put down the amount of money you're willing to risk and potentially lose in the venture (whether failure to deliver--not gonna happen--or "subpar" to your expectations, which is possible). This is the mantra of Kickstarter.

 

All stop.

[Madzookeeper]

I believe that reputation for buggy releases has much to do with publisher pressures as well--release dates, contractual obligations, stuff like that.

 

This Kickstarter is the perfect--the only--opportunity for Obsidian to both break that reputation and stick it back to the publishers.

It's still partially their fault. It's not unreasonable to poke at them every now and then about this.

 

it's only their fault if they're the ones handling the quality assurance. if they aren't, and it's the publisher doing it, then it's on the publisher.

Almost every game development company has publishers. I'm sure they all to deal.

 

yes, and in most of those cases the publisher is the one doing the QA. why do you think we're seeing so many day 1 patches now?

[Shevek]

I feel that the stretch goals seem very reasonble.

 

Even with the stretch goals, the number of classes and joinable NPCs is lower than BG2. I am not saying this as a bad thing btw. This is just an observation.

 

Think of the big picture here. I mean, there is no multiplayer (not needed). They are skipping the cutscenes (not needed). They are sticking to 2D environments (perfect considering the gameplay and should look great). All these things make the game relatively cheap to develop.

 

There are many things this game is doing that are more indepth. There appears to be more detailed character development, for example. There will be racial traits and most likely some kind skill system. However, stuff like this is easy and cheap to do. Look at Fallout's perk system; it was literaly designed and coded over a couple days.

 

When you figure in that modern tools for game development are much more powerful and efficient, I think OE is on track to deliver this in stride.

[Hassat Hunter]

Yeah, the "many canned projects" were mainly due to publishers.

Not sure why the heck Sega canned the Alien RPG. Not sure on what the rest of the projects even had as publisher.

 

However since it's all their own show here, I doubt they'll have that risk here.

[nikolokolus]

Here's a novel idea for everybody who doesn't trust Obsidian to deliver the game in a manner which they find acceptable, don't pledge. I don't even mean that in some snarky, butthurt way -- This whole Kickstarter thing is entirely voluntary, and you should only back a company/idea you really believe in.

Edited October 11, 2012 by nikolokolus

[Volourn]

"we don't need 35 different classes, we don't need a 150 gameplay hours game"

 

When did they promise either of these?

 

 

"eah, the "many canned projects" were mainly due to publishers.

Not sure why the heck Sega canned the Alien RPG. Not sure on what the rest of the projects even had as publisher."

 

Theyw ere likely canned for good reasons. Publishers try not to throw away money for ****s and giggles. As the developer/employee of said publishers it would be up to Obsidian to convince the publishers to make the game. Though, I agree with Alien. Who knows why that was canceled. Yet we get stuck with crap games like AP and DS3. At least the awesome FO:NV was released.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Volourn

[Silver6986]

These guys have seen through many games which were enormous. I think they're going to be fine. The game doesn't even have half as many classes as any of the IE games did. So... yeah. I think they're being pretty reasonable.

 

And anything they can't fit into the first release, they can add later on in expansions. ...Right?

 

You said it best

 

OP everything is going to be fine, Obsidian are pros, I don't think what you have mentioned will be anything worth worrying about as they will have it covered.

[JWestfall]

Here's a novel idea for everybody who doesn't trust Obsidian to deliver the game in a manner which they find acceptable, don't pledge. I don't even mean that in some snarky, butthurt way -- This whole Kickstarter thing is entirely voluntary, and you should only back a company/idea you really believe in.

 

I agree with the logic here, but I have a feeling that at least some who post these types of things are looking for genuine reassurance from the community, or as personal justification for donating.

 

For the OP, as has been said many times, Obsidian has a proven track record, and they are especially experienced in this particular genre. This would be one of the least of my worries in backing this project.

[Elerond]

One thing what should be remembered is that publisher is always the one who carry responsibility about quality and assurance. If you buy buggy game the main blame is on that who published it.

 

And Obsidian is never before self-published game, so we really can't say anything about quality of their QA, except that they have told that they had their own QA team for Dungeon Siege 3, which don't have many bugs in it. But in that game they had Square Enix as publisher, whereas Sega published Alpha Protocol, Atari was publisher on Neverwinter Nights 2 and it's expansions and Lucas Arts was publisher in Knights of the old Republic 2. So we can't be sure if DS3 lesser bug count was because Obsidian's QA team or Square Enix has better QA checking than those other publishers (or both).

 

But we know that Obsidian can do "bug free" games and this game's timetable is entirely planned by Obsidian and they have best knowledge what they can and can't do. And I trust that they can do and will excellent game, even master piece is not too far-fetched and that is why I have pledged on their product.

[Volourn]

"One thing what should be remembered is that publisher is always the one who carry responsibility about quality and assurance. If you buy buggy game the main blame is on that who published it."

 

Disagree. Both the publisher and developer deserve blame. Obsidian does have QA, btw. Really despise this idea that people can pass blame on to others. Obsidiana re big boys with lots of experience. They are are hired to make a game and it's up tot hem tod eliver said product.

 

That said, I'm sure they'll do fine. But,s top passing the buck. It ain't cool.

[ddillon]

From the Kickstarter comments page (courtesy of Ink Blot's summary thread):

 

Question: How aware is everyone at Obsidian about the reputation for producing buggy games and how concerned/happy are they about the chance to show that you can produce games that are not only really good but also fully functional?

 

Feargus: We are as aware as anyone - independent developers can live and die based upon their Metacritic. What we have done internally over the last two years is to work on our bug reporting process and our tools. Our tools now allow bugs to be reported from in-game and immediately filed into a bug database. The status of the database is then sent out to the whole team and the owners/founders of the company multiple times a week. We take it very seriously and have worked to take on as much of the responsibility as we can. I would point to Dungeon Siege 3, which had some criticisms (although I am very proud of the game), but there were no criticisms about it being buggy.

Edited October 11, 2012 by ddillon

[Savvy30039]

That said, I'm sure they'll do fine. But,s top passing the buck. It ain't cool.

 

Agreed, Obsidian is not blameless in building their buggy reputation, and the very same publishers manage to release content from other developers with half the issues. But Obsidian has also been screwed over by the system an epic amount, and it speaks volumes that their games are so memorable and engaging despite their technical flaws.

 

Take a look at KotOR 2. As unfinished and broken as it is, I hold it in higher regard than the first, because the content and characters that remained in the game and fully fleshed out were so rich. So ultimately it doesn't matter how much Obsidian delivers on Project Eternity, because the content they do deliver is going to be AWESOME.

[Redwulf]

Obsidian will eat their marshmallows however they like. I for one will not call the Stay Puft Police. No offense Ignatius, but marshmallows are yummy. Especially roasted marshmallows, still hot and smokin' mmmmm, mmmmm! :D

[GhostofAnakin]

I think if Obsidian was making this game under a strict schedule laid out by a publisher, I might share some of the OP's concerns. But since that's one thing working in their favor (no publisher to make them adhere to Release Date X), I think they'll be able to implement all these new features without much concern over the quality of the final product.

[HeedlessHorseman]

Admittedly, I do not know much about game development. However, I would think that with all of the people who are beta testers (or are at least able to be) that this game will not have a large amount of bugs.

[santanzchild]

That depends on how much they listen to there testers. Alot of publishers and development houses only uses beta testers for a sneak peak and getting the word out and never fix any of the glaring issues.

[WorstUsernameEver]

But since that's one thing working in their favor (no publisher to make them adhere to Release Date X), I think they'll be able to implement all these new features without much concern over the quality of the final product.

 

Well, money will have them adhere to a certain strict release schedule anyway, they can't just go on ad infinitum. And I agree with the OP's concerns, although it has to be said that Obsidian has gotten a tad better with planning and scheduling over the years, and at least they won't have to implement stuff they don't want to. Also, Adam Brennecke was responsible for more or less planning the development of the DS3 DLC and that turned out well when it comes to polish, if I recall correctly (haven't played it yet).

[Exile2k4]

I've pledged $110 via Paypal so far, and will probably up that before the Kickstarter closes. I count myself lucky on the global wealth scale to be in the position to afford that. For me the money that I pledge to this Kickstarter doesn't reflect the amount I think the game will definitely be worth when it's finished, it's donating money because I'm genuinely interested to see what a company like Obsidian makes when they're not constrained by a publisher. Obviously I'm hoping for a fantastic game at the end of it, but it's entirely possible that with that degree of freedom they'll actually crash and burn. I'd hate to see that happen, but I still wouldn't feel that I'd wasted the money - my payment's a donation to see what a team who've made some games I've loved over the last 15 years come up with, and for the fun of following their progress over the next 18 months.

 

As for the announced stretch goals - I think they're something that needs to be done to advertise the kickstarter, so they have something to talk about. If they kept saying "New stretch goal - $2.8 million and we'll make the game deeper" it would start to sound a little stale, even if ultimately that's what they're really doing. Maybe there'd be a different way of doing it where they clearly talked through where the money was going (staff costs, rental costs, software/hardware costs, marketing costs etc.) and showed how each budget was increasing, that'd be more interesting to some people, but personally I think it probably works like it is now.

[Archmage Silver]

Obsidian never bites more than they can chew, except when eating marshmallows. Those are good.

[Elerond]

"One thing what should be remembered is that publisher is always the one who carry responsibility about quality and assurance. If you buy buggy game the main blame is on that who published it."

 

Disagree. Both the publisher and developer deserve blame. Obsidian does have QA, btw. Really despise this idea that people can pass blame on to others. Obsidiana re big boys with lots of experience. They are are hired to make a game and it's up tot hem tod eliver said product.

 

That said, I'm sure they'll do fine. But,s top passing the buck. It ain't cool.

 

Yes, but final decision about when product is ready for markets is publisher's hands. For example no-one ever blames that Idian software subcontractor if you have bugs in your phone, but all blame goes to that phone making company which made that phone and didn't test phone enough to be sure that there is no bugs in it's software.

 

But of course truth is that company which made the game(or software) also made those bugs in first place, but in the end it's publisher who decides when they feel that product works good enough to be send to be sold instead of new iteration of bug fixing. So when I got product with annoying bugs I blame that company which did bring it to market. But of course it would be better if company which made the product, had not done any bugs in first place.

[moridin84]

I've pledged $110 via Paypal so far, and will probably up that before the Kickstarter closes. I count myself lucky on the global wealth scale to be in the position to afford that. For me the money that I pledge to this Kickstarter doesn't reflect the amount I think the game will definitely be worth when it's finished, it's donating money because I'm genuinely interested to see what a company like Obsidian makes when they're not constrained by a publisher. Obviously I'm hoping for a fantastic game at the end of it, but it's entirely possible that with that degree of freedom they'll actually crash and burn. I'd hate to see that happen, but I still wouldn't feel that I'd wasted the money - my payment's a donation to see what a team who've made some games I've loved over the last 15 years come up with, and for the fun of following their progress over the next 18 months.

Wow, I agree totally. I even pledged the same amount.

Edited October 11, 2012 by moridin84

[Malcador]

Admittedly, I do not know much about game development. However, I would think that with all of the people who are beta testers (or are at least able to be) that this game will not have a large amount of bugs.

 

Well, one can hope anyway.