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Update #10: Characteriztion with Chris Avellone


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Happy birthday Chris!

 

Btw, I was just wondering. Cadegund, Edair, gods that meddle in mortal affairs...it's starting to look like something from Norse or Germanic sagas...should we expect Sigurd the Dragon Slayer to be on one of the next concept arts? ;)

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One last thought before I go to bed. It looks like the latest update showing on the PE page is Update 9. You need to post this in 'latest news.' I might be missing it at the moment, but that's how it looks now at least.

Fionavar's Holliday Wishes to all members of our online community:  Happy Holidays

 

Join the revelry at the Obsidian Plays channel:
Obsidian Plays


 
Remembering tarna, Phosphor, Metadigital, and Visceris.  Drink mead heartily in the halls of Valhalla, my friends!

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I'm not sure I agree companions should necessarily be circling around the main character making him feel like the center of the world/story, I enjoy characters that, join you by chance or by necessarity, or for their own personal gains, they don’t need to be padding your on your back telling you what a good job you are doing, we have seen too much of that lately!

 

I want characters like Edwin and Xan from baldurs gate they are fun interesting and for Edwin he has his own goals, I want to be betrayed by my companions I want there to be something: awesome, exiting, fun and surprising summing from within the group!

 

Looking very much forward to the game!

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Hehe, great video, loved the surreal swaying of the camera :D . And damn, that Black Isle notebook: loved it (and used it for a lot for games) when I got one with my BG2 collector's edition :wub: :wub: :wub:

Edited by Lucas

"The Price of Freedom is Eternal Vigilance" - Wing Commander IV

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Warning: Includes in-game footage of Wasteland 2!

 

By the way, it might an interesting idea to have one companion roughly outlined by weekly polls.

Wizards of the Coast did a similar thing with Magic: The Gathering. It kept the community engaged and resulted in a truly unique card.

Edited by hotstew
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Can we get a HK-47 expy as a $5 million stretch goal? I feel the impending need to terminate hostilities...

HK-47 would kill you for assigning a phrase used by the HK-50 series to him.

 

Meatbag.

Legendary Weapons Made By You - A post about weapon customisation and creating your own legendary items

Magic Spell Customisation - A post about adapting spells to fit your style, making news ones from old

 

$4million+ raised, I think our jobs here are done.

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Happy birthday Chris!

 

I agree on all your points except for ego-stroking the player. I'd strongly argue that your party members always fawning over you is a horribly boring idea mostly used by most crappy RPGs Characters who you have to earn their respect and friendship or characters that can lie, manipulate, or hold information from you are far more interesting; it makes them more like real characters with their own motivations and desires instead of just being wish-fulfillment mindless sycophants that follow you around for little reason. For example, one of the best twists of Planescape: Torment was that Morte and Dak'kon were both lying to you the entire time. Also Ignus and Vhailor were interesting in part because to keep them in your team you have to pretty much lie to them because they utterly hate you but don't recognize who you are. Games need to betray or twist player trust like that more often because due to the interactivity of the medium it's more of an emotional gut punch to have a character that you believed to be a trusted ally turn out to have been using you the entire time. Bioshock is also another great example to this, so much so that it wouldn't work nearly as well in any other medium.

 

I'm hoping you guys steer way from such pandering pap because you've all proven that you make characters far better than that.

 

I agree, ego-stroking doesn't feel right when overdone. Think about Kreia in KOTOR2 when she says that all she did was only because of you. It was just sick. Poor Exile didn't have much luck with women, they were so obsessed with him that they wanted to kill him lol. I liked companions in New Vegas much better, they weren't obsessed with the player and had goals of their own.

 

*New* concept from the update

 

image-163777-full.jpg?1348795914

 

 

Cadegund? Race, faction, character class, or the artist's last name?

 

The artist's name is Polina Hristova http://www.polinadesign.com/

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Happy birthday Chris!

 

I agree on all your points except for ego-stroking the player. I'd strongly argue that your party members always fawning over you is a horribly boring idea mostly used by most crappy RPGs Characters who you have to earn their respect and friendship or characters that can lie, manipulate, or hold information from you are far more interesting; it makes them more like real characters with their own motivations and desires instead of just being wish-fulfillment mindless sycophants that follow you around for little reason. For example, one of the best twists of Planescape: Torment was that Morte and Dak'kon were both lying to you the entire time. Also Ignus and Vhailor were interesting in part because to keep them in your team you have to pretty much lie to them because they utterly hate you but don't recognize who you are. Games need to betray or twist player trust like that more often because due to the interactivity of the medium it's more of an emotional gut punch to have a character that you believed to be a trusted ally turn out to have been using you the entire time. Bioshock is also another great example to this, so much so that it wouldn't work nearly as well in any other medium.

 

I'm hoping you guys steer way from such pandering pap because you've all proven that you make characters far better than that.

 

I have to say, my favorite party member in NWN 2 was Bishop. Especially because of what happened during the seige.

And Bishop ego-strokes the Player all the time. He tells you from the start that he respects your harborman toughness. Then later he happily accepts his role as your "tracker".... then at the end of the game, even as he refuses to fight by your side, he still gives an entire speech about how great you are.

Edited by Stun
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Hey folks, new to the forum. I didn't see a "Introduce Yourself" thread anywhere so I guess this is where my first post will go. While I have yet to pledge to Project Eternity, I will as soon a Pay Pal donations go live (I can't do Amazon Payments at the moment). I'm a long time RPG fan and the old Infinity Engine games are some of my favorite games of all time. In fact I have Infinity Engine games rated as my #1 (Planescape: Torment) and #2 (Baldur's Gate 2) greatest RPGs ever made.

 

Anyway, great update from Chris. Man, I thought my work area was messy. I've always been a fan of Obsidian Games and despite any criticisms people may have of Obsidian, i think we can all agree that Obsidian has always had interesting companions in their games. Neeshka is still probably my favorite companion ever, and more recently I've been very fond of Veronica, Cass, and Lily.

 

Also, happy birthday, Chris! You didn't actually appear in this latest video, but going by your appearance in the pitch video, you don't look a day over 397! :grin:

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rowsdower_sig.jpg.0f13980282a9229af0f1609eb6dee060.jpg
I wonder if there is beer on the sun

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Happy birthday Chris!

 

I agree on all your points except for ego-stroking the player. I'd strongly argue that your party members always fawning over you is a horribly boring idea mostly used by most crappy RPGs Characters who you have to earn their respect and friendship or characters that can lie, manipulate, or hold information from you are far more interesting; it makes them more like real characters with their own motivations and desires instead of just being wish-fulfillment mindless sycophants that follow you around for little reason. For example, one of the best twists of Planescape: Torment was that Morte and Dak'kon were both lying to you the entire time. Also Ignus and Vhailor were interesting in part because to keep them in your team you have to pretty much lie to them because they utterly hate you but don't recognize who you are. Games need to betray or twist player trust like that more often because due to the interactivity of the medium it's more of an emotional gut punch to have a character that you believed to be a trusted ally turn out to have been using you the entire time. Bioshock is also another great example to this, so much so that it wouldn't work nearly as well in any other medium.

 

I'm hoping you guys steer way from such pandering pap because you've all proven that you make characters far better than that.

 

I agree, ego-stroking doesn't feel right when overdone. Think about Kreia in KOTOR2 when she says that all she did was only because of you. It was just sick. Poor Exile didn't have much luck with women, they were so obsessed with him that they wanted to kill him lol.

That was no ego-stroking, that was the main plot of the game. Or maybe both? It's still considered ego-stroking when this "thing" pushes forward the main plot forward during the game? Anyway, awesome plot, awesome character.

 

And almost forgot, happy birthday, Chris!

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:xMCA just made me puke ! Never thought that could happen.

 

Great content but horrible horrible swaying. I didn't wish him a happy birthday for that. :facepalm:

 

 

Hey folks, new to the forum.

 

Welcome Keyrock. You're far from the Grim Dawn forums :D

Edited by Archon

Careful what you wish ...

oooelogo180.png ... you just might get it

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I actually agree with him. Any character that insults or belittles the player, the player won't like. A character can still challenge the player, they can disagree with the player. But the second the character starts insulting or acting better than the player, the player will hate them.

 

I'm taking this from my PnP experience. Everytime the DM brought a character in to try to reign us in, where he'd go around making fun of our strategies or mocking our ludicrous behavior, I just wanted to kill the character. The DM, however, thought he was being funny. He wasn't. The DM was trying to show us up.

 

And my response to characters like that extends into computer games. Characters should support the player. Yeah, they can have their own goals, but they should try convincing the player to help with those goals. They shouldn't be hounding the player and becoming obnoxious to that end.

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"Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
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Welcome Keyrock. You're far from the Grim Dawn forums :D

Indeed. And yes, I am that same Keyrock. I wonder how many other familiar faces... err, avatars, I'll see here. 8)

 

Hopefully we will get some companions who will have conflicts (potentially physical if the player doesn't diffuse it) with each other. I had a good time listening to Neeshka and Elanee butting heads in NWN2... well at least until I kicked that pointy-eared dirty tree-hugger out of my group. :devil:

rowsdower_sig.jpg.0f13980282a9229af0f1609eb6dee060.jpg
I wonder if there is beer on the sun

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I think characters should act... in their character. The conflict behind their high usability but zero ego-stroking can actually play out. Edwin and Korgan were always mocking [CHARNAME], yet they are very popular, because they were funny, and also excelled at their respective roles - best fighter and best mage you could have.

 

Ultimately, what I think Chris was saying, is you should't go completely emo on companions. As he pointed out right, player gonna spend a lot of time with these guys, and if they are as annoying as one mage made by we-know-which-company-I-am-talking-about, they would not work.

 

I'm also a big fan of Myron. He was a great subversion. I can't believe people won't take him because he's "useless". He just made everything so much funnier when you carry this dickwad around. Fall-From-Grace also was great subversion to idea that "people who don't fight, don't adventure". Yeah, yeah, Call Lightning. But inability to use weapon because of her belief was great.

Edited by Shadenuat
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Edwin and Korgan were always mocking [CHARNAME], yet they are very popular, because they were funny, and also excelled at their respective roles - best fighter and best mage you could have.

Just two posts later and I'm forced to challenge my own ideas. :(

 

Edwin and Korgan were great. Well, Edwin was, I never used Korgan to make an opinion of him. Because he was funny. because his delivery was fantastic. So I guess it shows there can be exceptions, but I worry that it's really hard to pull off. Without voice acting, Edwin might have not been nearly as likable.

"Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
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