Dragon Age 2

[Kaftan Barlast]

Also ME2 was friggin' awesome while Dragon Age had:

 

[Amentep]

I guess I'm weird, but I guess ultimately I don't care if the gameplay of DA2 changes or not.

 

All I care about is whether I think I'll have fun playing the game (pre-purchase) and whether I had fun playing the game (post-purchase).

 

If things bout the game change and I still enjoy it...is there a problem?

 

If it changes and I don't enjoy it, it won't be the first game I played that sucked.

 

If it changes to something I don't think I'll enjoy I won't try it.

 

So where's the problem? Did I accidentally sign a contract when I played DA:O that I was bound to buy the next three sequels and play them to completion under penalty of death or something?

[Gfted1]

[Tigranes]

I guess I'm weird, but I guess ultimately I don't care if the gameplay of DA2 changes or not.

 

All I care about is whether I think I'll have fun playing the game (pre-purchase) and whether I had fun playing the game (post-purchase).

 

That's... exactly what people care about when they like/don't like gameplay changes.

[Spider]

And in other DA news, Golems of Amgarrak has been released. A DLC where you yet again play the Warden. And it's supposedly high level, so awakening wardens are good. This I'll be getting in a few weeks.

[Wrath of Dagon]

What is all this nitpicking about ME2/DA sales?

 

Who knows the real numbers, and why should we bother?

 

Bottom line is: Both games were a success, and both games get a sequel(s).

But DA2 is turning into Dragon Effect, so it begs the question why a game that garnered success on its on values needs to imitate another.

The only signinficant thing changing for the console version is PC voiceover, and that's because most people prefer that. It's the same reasoning Bio used for why TOR is going to have full voice over.

[Zoraptor]

The combat is supposedly being changed on console too, to make it more visceral/ epic/ buzzword-du-jour, though given the amount of release/ backtrack/ clarify I'm not sure what to believe any more.

I was doubling because we have known total PC/DD/360 sales figure for ME2 at 3 months which was double that of the NPD figure at two months. Since we also have the two months NPD for DAO all other things being equal the same formula would apply.

That's what I figured. Where you went wrong was assuming there's a significant PC component in there. I see nothing in the numbers to indicate that.

Shrug. I'll lay out the reasons for thinking so with a bit more detail on the reasoning, but it is an estimate based on available information and you'll either think it's a plausible argument or not and that's pretty much that.

 

1) DAO had a lot of PC cachet as being marketed for a long time as a successor to BG, PC exclusive/ PC version first for ages

2) The 'missing' 500k between the 2.2 million and the 2.7 figure likely to be PC because:

3) You'd expect DAO's third month to be low compared to ME2's 3rd month for the simple reason that ME2 was released in DAO's 3rd month providing new, and very direct, competition.

4) Most of the factors for the extrapolation from ME2 should further underestimate the PC component

4a) eg ME1 was released first on 360 so most people with both PC and 360 systems would buy on 360; and was originally stated as being wholly exclusive to 360

4b) ME2 is a sequel and if you bought the first one on 360 the chances are you would buy the second there too (for save game importing if nothing else).

4c) Neither of these factors apply to DAO

5) The market for both 'old school' RPGs and PC is far higher in Europe than the US, console penetration is less (exc UK)

6) PC sales have a longer tail than console ones due to various factors (DD, no 2nd hand sales etc)

7) NPD does not 'see' PC sales, only US console. So if an underestimate occurs it is likely to be due to PC sales or Euro/ RoW differences.

 

I've also seen nothing from Bioware to suggest that the PC version sold poorly, just stuff which is designed to streamline production and cut costs by bringing the console/PC versions closer together production wise.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Laidlaw said

Now, the game mainly sold on console, so we're going the way of the audience".

The 500K discrepancy may just be an estimate artifact (game may have sold better in Europe, half of 360's are outside US, also there're more PS3's in Europe, EA shipped extra copies, etc), it still sounds too high to me. If I had to guess, I'd guess 200K, but that's nothing but intuition. Edited August 12, 2010 by Wrath of Dagon

[Vilhelm]

Also remember that almost any numbers for PC sales you find on the internet do NOT include copies sold through DD services such as Steam, only retail.

[Guest Slinky]

This talk of sales is really fascinating and all, but here's some new stuff someone pulled out from a new issue of X360:

 

- Bioware are focusing on four pivotal points with Dragon Age II; "hot-rodding" the art style, dialling up the action, making Dragon Age II newcomer friendly, and refining the game's storytelling techniques.

 

- Bioware admits that some of the changes are controversial, and that they are "destined to create tension throughout many gamers who swore by Origins' approach..."

 

- Regarding voice acting of Hawke, Bioware is being very careful with it. They are making sure that you still feel like you control the character and all that they do. The decision wasn't made lightly, but the pros vastly outweigh the cons. Bioware hope to make Dragon Age II a much more cinematic experience than the first was.

 

- There's a bit about the conversation wheel. "An icon will now appear within the circle. If you want to be aggressive, you'll see a clenched fist. Fancy being a bit suave and a charming face will take its place. It's all aimed at allowing you to become immersed far more in the narrative and become closer to your character. And there won't be anymore "Oh crap I didn't mean to say it like that" moments ala Mass Effect, as apparently these icons will indicate the tone your response will have.

 

- Grey Wardens will be in Dragon Age 2, but they're pushed to the sidelines this time around.

 

- "Will there be a new threat in this game?" "... yes!"

 

- Hints were dropped that we might bump into our Origins Warden at some point.

 

- Playing as a MageHawke seems like it will have an impact on the story, and I quote "I mean, if you're a mage from Feralden, that's obviously going to be a different experience, becase are you an apostate or are you from the circle." This suggests that classes will still have an impact on the story, probably more so than Origins.

 

- There's a HUGE Civil War of some sort which will change the world of Dragon Age forever, sparked by you. This becomes the heart of Dragon Age II, and not only will you be in control of these choices, but you will forge your own timeline that the rest of the universe will discover and react to.

 

- "Who was the champion of Kirkwall? We're not posing you with an ancient evil you have to stop. Instead, we're asking you to give us an answer."

 

- Cassandra is a Chantry Seeker interested in Hake's legend, and Varric is a dwarf who claims to have known Hawke.

 

- When you're not using them, the rest of your companions won't just sit around at camp. When they're not with you other things are happening.

 

- There will be unique moments where having a certain party member with you will add to the event. At certain intervals, a follower option will allow you to tell a specific party member to leap into action. In a case X360 witnessed, Bethany can unleash her magic, and having the right person in the right situation can play dividends.

 

- Enchantment!

 

- You can customise individual spells, tweaking things like damage and knockback strength.

 

- Rogue, Warrior and Mage all feel very unique and different now.

 

- On the console at least, each press of the X button will unleash a melee attack.

 

- Battle animations are now exceptionally smooth.

 

- "Your decisions could be far more pivotal than they ever were before."

 

- "I can guarantee that there will be some answers in Dragon Age II... but not all of them.

 

- There will be cameos from Origins and I assume from Awakenings, although the latter isn't mentioned.

 

- The atmosphere of the game is far more cutting and dark.

Sounds all right to me. Clearly some Mass Effecting going on but that doesn't mean it's automatically a bad thing.

[Tigranes]

Storytelling will make and break, it sounds like. They're putting a lot of effort on it and changing a lot of things, if the C&C, plot and character development holds up it could be a very enjoyable experience despite the apparent butchering of gameplay. We'll see.

 

- You can customise individual spells, tweaking things like damage and knockback strength.

 

This certainly sounds nice, hope D3 makes this a staple.

[sorophx]

heh, some of these just make me go "...what?"

 

looks like someone in charge thinks DAO was a effup on Bio's part. and he wants Bio to remake the whole game from scratch ASAP to make sure players forget all about that failure of a game DAO was.

[Gorth]

'Cinematic'...

 

Why is the industry so obsessed with making games "Cinematic" rather than fun to play?

 

Hopefully somebody will cart off 'Cinematic' together with 'Epic', 'Immersive' and 'Action' to the buzz word cemetary some day

[Raithe]

They do seem rather happy throwing buzz words around ....

 

But still, it could have possibilities... I shall rein in my judgement until I have more to base it on.

[Syraxis]

'Cinematic'...

 

Why is the industry so obsessed with making games "Cinematic" rather than fun to play?

 

Inferiority complex to Hollywood?

[Nepenthe]

'Cinematic'...

 

Why is the industry so obsessed with making games "Cinematic" rather than fun to play?

 

Inferiority complex to Hollywood?

 

Possibly. Could be that some focus group somewhere said they want CINEMATIC games while watching bad boys II.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Well, if you think about it, most game commercials feature CG cutscenes, so it's a marketing thing.

[sorophx]

suddenly the US' gamers got bitten by the JRPG bug

[GhostofAnakin]

Things I think show some promise:

 

- Hints were dropped that we might bump into our Origins Warden at some point.

 

- Playing as a MageHawke seems like it will have an impact on the story, and I quote "I mean, if you're a mage from Feralden, that's obviously going to be a different experience, becase are you an apostate or are you from the circle." This suggests that classes will still have an impact on the story, probably more so than Origins.

 

- There's a HUGE Civil War of some sort which will change the world of Dragon Age forever, sparked by you. This becomes the heart of Dragon Age II, and not only will you be in control of these choices, but you will forge your own timeline that the rest of the universe will discover and react to.

 

- "Who was the champion of Kirkwall? We're not posing you with an ancient evil you have to stop. Instead, we're asking you to give us an answer."

 

- When you're not using them, the rest of your companions won't just sit around at camp. When they're not with you other things are happening.

 

- There will be unique moments where having a certain party member with you will add to the event. At certain intervals, a follower option will allow you to tell a specific party member to leap into action. In a case X360 witnessed, Bethany can unleash her magic, and having the right person in the right situation can play dividends.

 

- Enchantment!

 

- You can customise individual spells, tweaking things like damage and knockback strength.

 

- Rogue, Warrior and Mage all feel very unique and different now.

 

- Battle animations are now exceptionally smooth.

 

- "Your decisions could be far more pivotal than they ever were before."

 

Things that worry me:

 

- Bioware are focusing on four pivotal points with Dragon Age II; "hot-rodding" the art style, dialling up the action, making Dragon Age II newcomer friendly, and refining the game's storytelling techniques.

 

- Bioware admits that some of the changes are controversial, and that they are "destined to create tension throughout many gamers who swore by Origins' approach..."

 

- Regarding voice acting of Hawke, Bioware is being very careful with it. They are making sure that you still feel like you control the character and all that they do. The decision wasn't made lightly, but the pros vastly outweigh the cons. Bioware hope to make Dragon Age II a much more cinematic experience than the first was.

 

- There's a bit about the conversation wheel. "An icon will now appear within the circle. If you want to be aggressive, you'll see a clenched fist. Fancy being a bit suave and a charming face will take its place. It's all aimed at allowing you to become immersed far more in the narrative and become closer to your character. And there won't be anymore "Oh crap I didn't mean to say it like that" moments ala Mass Effect, as apparently these icons will indicate the tone your response will have.

 

- Grey Wardens will be in Dragon Age 2, but they're pushed to the sidelines this time around.

 

- "I can guarantee that there will be some answers in Dragon Age II... but not all of them.

 

- There will be cameos from Origins and I assume from Awakenings, although the latter isn't mentioned.

 

---------------------------------

 

The main things that still worry me include them railroading the story along, especially with this new narrator approach, and that they're more worried about turning into an almost action game with an emphasis on "kewl combat". I also am leery of cameos because, chances are, they'll be disappointing. I can't think of a single cameo in a recent game where I didn't come away thinking, "wait, that's it? We were bestest buddies in the previous game, and all I got this time was two lines of dialogue with them?". Not to mention there's a chance they change the character's motives around. I'm also not sure how I feel about them including my Grey Warden. I mean, unless the game imports him EXACTLY as how I played him from Origins, then there's a good chance he won't act/think/react the way I want him to.

Edited August 12, 2010 by GhostofAnakin

[WorstUsernameEver]

Mostly promising, as far as the story and mechanics tied to it go (even if I'd have preferred a mute main character, but *shrugs* it's still better than ME's wheel). Until I know about the top-down view and about the interesting-combat/filler-combat ratio I'll be on the fence.

[aries101]

This is the thread from which the above info comes. Original info from the New 360 OXM Magazine.

 

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/4418934/1

 

As for the info revealed, I like the part about the story and about the pivotal events. I'm not that keen on the cinematic experience being 'more and 'more'. Sometimes, I get the feeling that the writers for video gamers? maybe are failed writers for movie scripts?

 

I also maybe get the feeling that the writers and devs. think that since video games are a visual medium, they'll want to make them more and more visually e.g. making them cinematic.

 

As far what I like, I also like the fact that there will ne civil war going on in DA2 and that the story is told via the framed narrative.

[Amentep]

I guess I'm weird, but I guess ultimately I don't care if the gameplay of DA2 changes or not.

 

All I care about is whether I think I'll have fun playing the game (pre-purchase) and whether I had fun playing the game (post-purchase).

 

That's... exactly what people care about when they like/don't like gameplay changes.

 

But I don't care if it changes. The crux of most of the stuff I've read on the bio-boards boils down to "OMG! You changed it! How dare you!"

 

Doesn't matter if the game itself might still be good because/despite the changes and that's what I don't get.

 

So DA2 isn't going to be a bigger/better/longer DA:O; well so what? Once we accept that its different, why can't we look at what DA2 is on the terms of what it offers as opposed to what DA:O offered. That's where I get lost.

[entrerix]

whats strange is that a lot of people are upset at dragon age 2 being too different than one, and a lot of people are now upset that bioshock 3 is not different enough from 1 and 2.

 

 

i think its because most of us were under the impression that dragon age was going to remain a more traditional crpg franchise, and that irrational was making something totally different than bioshock.

 

its all about setting expectations...

[Morgoth]

The hell with "traditional" CRPGs.

 

DA2 will kick DAO's ass!

[Undecaf]

whats strange is that a lot of people are upset at dragon age 2 being too different than one, and a lot of people are now upset that bioshock 3 is not different enough from 1 and 2.

 

 

i think its because most of us were under the impression that dragon age was going to remain a more traditional crpg franchise, and that irrational was making something totally different than bioshock.

 

its all about setting expectations...

 

It can be that the dark area between changing too much and changing too little is being crossed on both titles, too. And changing the right things.

Edited August 12, 2010 by Undecaf