The TV and Streaming Thread: Summer Reruns

[majestic]

15 minutes ago, uuuhhii said:

why are so many subtitle just say song in some language when a bgm song is playing

what use does it serve

Because they're closed captions, rather than pure subtitles. They're meant to help the hard of hearing understand what is going on beyond subtitling dialogue. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by majestic

[Bartimaeus]

I, too, despise reading closed captioning and/or SDH subtitles (one of the two which is the only option seemingly roughly 75% of the time); on the other hand, I can at least be thankful that I am not hard of hearing or deaf, so there is that.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[majestic]

Yeah, SDHs are subtitles for the deaf and hard of hearing, i.e. they're not in the same language as the video, unlike closed captions, although that difference in naming conventions is not even upheld by some streaming services or other companies. One gets English SDH subtitles with House of the Dragon, for instance - as if the few sentences of Valyrian in the show make it have a different video language.

13 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

I, too, despise reading closed captioning and/or SDH subtitles (one of the two which is the only option seemingly roughly 75% of the time); on the other hand, I can at least be thankful that I am not hard of hearing or deaf, so there is that.

I think that is because of legislation that requires programming to always ship with an English CC option. From there it is a fairly easy move to dropping regular subtitles for the sake of convenience and cutting workload (and cost). Personally I don't care too much as long as the captions are not in the way of the dialogue. There's worse, like forced overlays on text in a foreign language on screen, bonus points when they flash to let one see what is written in the original language below or otherwise create artifacts or aliasing during camera pans.

[Bartimaeus]

31 minutes ago, majestic said:

Yeah, SDHs are subtitles for the deaf and hard of hearing, i.e. they're not in the same language as the video, unlike closed captions, although that difference in naming conventions is not even upheld by some streaming services or other companies. One gets English SDH subtitles with House of the Dragon, for instance - as if the few sentences of Valyrian in the show make it have a different video language.

I've noticed that there largely isn't consistency in how the tracks are named between web streaming and even DVD/BD sources. For my own files, I ended up calling everything with descriptive text "SDH" rather than trying to discern the precise differences between SDH and CC because...uh, well, it's genuinely pretty difficult to discern at times with the different ways that they're handled. I can only hope that the term "closed captioning" goes the way of the dinosaur entirely in favor of "SDH" over the next decade or two and retroactively makes my choice here completely correct, .

31 minutes ago, majestic said:

I think that is because of legislation that requires programming to always ship with an English CC option. From there it is a fairly easy move to dropping regular subtitles for the sake of convenience and cutting workload (and cost). Personally I don't care too much as long as the captions are not in the way of the dialogue. There's worse, like forced overlays on text in a foreign language on screen, bonus points when they flash to let one see what is written in the original language below or otherwise create artifacts or aliasing during camera pans.

I find reading descriptive text to be pretty disruptive to the reading experience, so I'm not a big fan. I am me, though.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[LadyCrimson]

I don't like CC being used as general subtitles either, since I also find stuff like "door creaking", "leaves rustling" and "kettle whistling" visually distracting, since my auto-response is to glance at any text on-screen so it's hard to ignore it. I get the saving costs aspect tho.  On the flip side, I also don't like "fan subtitles" where they "asterisk*-describe too many cultural explanations to the tune of long paragraphs that covers half the screen/requires pausing to even read it all anyway. Brief tidbits of extra info is cool/interesting at times, but some get carried away is all.

[LadyCrimson]

Also - I watched most of Cabinet of Curiosities.  I skipped Dreams in the Witch House and the Viewing because by then it was late and I was hunting for the Andrew Lincoln episode (which, ofc, was the last one...).

My general viewpoint on the show is: well produced, lots of familiar/actor power, good acting and some interesting writing at times. Worth checking out.
I didn't find it unsettling/suspenseful or super attention grabbing at all, at most a little weird (in a good way) here and there but I'm definitely very over-exposed to "horror" stories so that's just a me thing by now.   

The most fun thing, as with all anthologies, is how many different viewpoints there are on "the best episode/s" of the series. My favorite of the six I watched would be The Autopsy. The rest were decent to ok, with most of my personal pleasure coming from seeing some familiar faces again, more than anything else.

[Bartimaeus]

51 minutes ago, LadyCrimson said:

I don't like CC being used as general subtitles either, since I also find stuff like "door creaking", "leaves rustling" and "kettle whistling" visually distracting, since my auto-response is to glance at any text on-screen so it's hard to ignore it. I get the saving costs aspect tho.  On the flip side, I also don't like "fan subtitles" where they "asterisk*-describe too many cultural explanations to the tune of long paragraphs that covers half the screen/requires pausing to even read it all anyway. Brief tidbits of extra info is cool/interesting at times, but some get carried away is all.

Yeah, I am pretty much the biggest hater of fansubs around. If you go through the trouble of taking a movie or show that is not in English and which doesn't already have a translation and you translate the entire thing because you're that much of a diehard fan, I applaud you. Really, that's impressive and makes it watchable for tons more people, and that can only be a good thing. But...you know, it goes without saying that I am going to revert your disgusting teal-yellow text color to normal white with black shadow, and I'm going to change the font from your "inspired" choice of Comic Sans to Calibri or something halfway respectable, and pretty much anything that require an asterisk to explain something is going to get thrown straight into the garbage with only rare exception given...and if god forbid you decided to inexplicably not translate "sensei" because it could not be accurately translated to "master" or "teacher", I'm gonna hunt you down so that I can slap you square in the mouth. Fansubs are the worst, made by just the dumbest people...who are unfortunately much smarter than I am.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Bartimaeus

[majestic]

18 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

and if god forbid you decided to inexplicably not translate "sensei" because it could not be accurately translated to "master" or "teacher", I'm gonna hunt you down so that I can slap you square in the mouth.

But, but, but... something about translation vs. localization something something!

Still waiting for someone to make a perfectly literal fansub to remove all the pesky localization from it. Imagine people greeting each other with "It is early" in the morning, "as for this day" during the day and "as for this evening" during the evening hours and wishing each other a good night by saying "(your) honorable rest".

Edited October 31, 2022 by majestic

[kanisatha]

14 hours ago, LadyCrimson said:

I don't like CC being used as general subtitles either, since I also find stuff like "door creaking", "leaves rustling" and "kettle whistling" visually distracting, since my auto-response is to glance at any text on-screen so it's hard to ignore it. I get the saving costs aspect tho.  On the flip side, I also don't like "fan subtitles" where they "asterisk*-describe too many cultural explanations to the tune of long paragraphs that covers half the screen/requires pausing to even read it all anyway. Brief tidbits of extra info is cool/interesting at times, but some get carried away is all.

I can appreciate this, but as @majesticpointed out, for those of us who are hearing impaired this sort of CC is hugely helpful. I can watch TV shows or movies *only* with CC.

[LadyCrimson]

5 hours ago, kanisatha said:

I can appreciate this, but as @majesticpointed out, for those of us who are hearing impaired this sort of CC is hugely helpful. I can watch TV shows or movies *only* with CC.

I was in no way suggesting CC shouldn't exist, only that I wish they would always have/use the options (as example)

English
English (CC)

But as mentioned by someone already, this would likely end up with an unwieldy extra cost to time and cash which companies would often like to avoid I assume. I have no clue how subtitles are programmed, but maybe one could do some kind of programming which utilizes the CC subtitles (vs. separate translation) under "English, non CC" that  just removes (again, re Netflix's seeming way of doing things) anything in brackets [ leaves rustling ]. I don't know if that's actually possible however. And even if it is/was, there'd have to be some standard (always using brackets, if that isn't standard).

Subtitle options have become better - at least on major streaming services - over time but they're still lacking in the options area. I've noticed many, if not all, K-drama's, for example (US-Netflix anyway) have "English" but no CC version at all. Or other (to the US) foreign may have a CC but it's only in the "native" language vs. a common local (English).

Edit: Netflix has been including "Audio Description" (verbal narration) on some titles lately, (for sight impaired?) too. I checked it out once, seems pretty effective.

Edited November 1, 2022 by LadyCrimson

[majestic]

On 10/28/2022 at 4:22 AM, Zoraptor said:

Caught up on House of the Dragon. Overall, a strong start, though certainly a lot of room for improvement in certain aspects. Which probably ought to happen, since S1 was ultimately scene setting over an extended period which doesn't lend itself to coherent storytelling on TV.

  Reveal hidden contents

Or in other words no criticism for the time skips, which are almost always either confusing, or necessitate a load of exposition, or seem kludgey, or all three; and the slightly disconnected feel that came as a result. Not really any way to get around it given the subject.

Rather more difficult to get around from the 'historian' pov is the obsession with one aspect of 'feudal' law- male biased succession rules- while ignoring others. If you beat someone to death- and assault the bridegroom- at basically the heir's wedding you're toast. Doesn't matter if the person killed was a literal nobody, you don't ruin a state function and about the most important short of coronation or the monarch's marriage like that and get away scot free. Then there's the much derided Rhaenys escape scene... plus a couple of others. It's a shame, because things could be done better and those sorts of spectacle for spectacles' sake were a huge part of what made S7/8 bad. Fortunately there weren't too many of them. In terms of just stupid stuff it's hard to go past the Stepstones action in Ep3. Not so much the set up, but the denouement had literally nothing to recommend it post the extremely memeable scene with Daemon receiving the message from Visc. And at times Xena/ Hercules- or even WoT- would have been embarrassed at that 'battle'.

The other and probably more fundamental problem was that they were clearly aiming to not make the war anyone's fault- except perhaps Otto and Daemon, and they were ultimately proven right despite (more or less) following instructions not to escalate. In the end that made most of the women involved look, well, dumb. I can understand not wanting to go with them all being bloodthirsty manipulators interested only in power but they ended up in a situation where trying to avoid the negatives makes them look weak instead. Particularly Alicent, who does not come off well at all really. Apart from the incredibly long bow she draws from Viscerys' last words there's her dislike of Rhaenyra's infidelities while, uh, indulging Sir Larys herself and being flabbergasted that Otto had set up a coup (no really? first time meeting your father?), and that Sir Larys would bump off his dad and brother on a hint. Plus of course covering up for Aegon (an obvious Joffrey analogue, much as Otto is an obvious Tywin analogue). The other main sufferer from this is Rhaenys, Rhaenyra gets away (at least from a modern perspective, to be sure having bastards is a big no no for a woman in feudal terms) relatively well. Rhaenys' "it's not my war to start" was ridiculous, though to be fair it stems mostly from the even more ridiculous close to the previous episode. It was already treason, they'd imprisoned you and murdered two nobles (and to show it isn't just the women who suffer from this, Cole managed to kill Beesbury by accident, making him look an utter idiot instead of ruthless...) one of those by the peasant's punishment of hanging. All to get something functionally similar to what we got in Ep8 where she eventually declared for Rhaenyra on the Driftmark succession issue, just with her husband doing it instead. In any case, she'd already picked a side, certainly as far as Otto was concerned. Hopefully now that the war is on we'll get rather less of that though.

Perhaps the only occasion where I'd give some leniency in that regard is the dragon fight. It makes Aemond and Lucerys both look kind of dumb, but at least realistically/ justifiably so and not just because they're basically still both kids. If a dragon decides something is happening... it's happening and you're just along for the ride.

Also rather hit on you the head at times with the symbolism/ foreshadowing. Perhaps most of all when fighting broke out as soon as Viscerys left the feast in Ep8...

Good acting, locations, sfx etc, but then those were always strong points even when the writing, plotting and direction were weak in GoT. Mostly good writing/ plotting and direction too. Perhaps a bit of an obsession with childbirth, and that seemed to have almost replaced the gratuitous sex (of which there wasn't much at all really. Personally, didn't miss it).

Might also make a note that if you want people to dislike a character don't cast Matt Smith. Or don't be surprised when people like his characters despite your best efforts.

I have a strong suspicion Aemond may have hijacked my keyboard once or twice there, looking back.

At first I had a large reply in mind, but then I did not write it, and now it'll be a lot shorter. I agree with the observations, not really with the conclusion. I wouldn't call the the first season a strong start, at least not compared to Game of Throne's, which is what this ought to be compared to. House of the Dragon had, warts and all, certainly a better first season than much of the other series I've watched recently (particularily a certain Tolkien fanfiction that turned out to be a complete travesty), and with that as a point of comparison, then yes, the first season was mostly good.

It had some really strong moments, but overall, everything is just a tad less good than early Game of Thrones was, and outside of Matt Smith, who really grew on me after the first episode (which was, stupidity from Cole and that ludicrous Stepstones battle aside, probably the worst episode of the season), there's not really any character that is even close to being a break out, while GoT had more than one, even.

I also disliked the uncanny feel much of the CGI left. I also felt like the actresses for Rhaenyra and Alicent got worse with the time skips, but it at least removed the 'just look and act like Emilia Clarke so we can bank on similarities' problem early Rhaenyra had (pretty much a subjective issue). I appreciated that the series eventually stopped yelling 'this is a GoT spinoff' at me. Still don't like the looks of the dragons, Caraxes most of all. Fitting for Daemon, perhaps, but that dragon looked as if it was perpetually inebriated - or maybe the animators were.

Edited November 1, 2022 by majestic

[Zoraptor]

Fancy not liking noodle neck Caraxes. I suspect whoever animated him must have worked on Jurassic Park animating their Diplodocus as a childhood dream and been absolutely shattered when told that scientifically necks can't move like that. I'm certainly not over keen on their dragon design, but that's mostly because I prefer six limbed dragons (ie 4 legs, wings separate) to hybrid legs/ wings.

HotD S1 was definitely less good than GoT S1, but then GoT S1 was very good. It also had certain 'structural' advantages in terms of having a starting point a lot closer to the action than (as previous) HotD had, and having a backstory specifically designed around drip feeding exposition organically (ie things like Jon's parentage). If they'd started with young Ned and young Robert just after the successful Robellion the first season of GoT would have had similar problems. And I can't see a way they could have done HotD differently without... dunno really. You'd have to have some sort of massive exposition about how the situation came to be, and they didn't seem keen on going the ~pr0n route GoT went for many of its exposition dumps. The result is, fundamentally, a bit of a mess in narrative terms but the only way it could be avoided I can see is not to adapt the story. And it's nowhere near bad enough I wish it wasn't made, rather the reverse.

I thought there was a definite feeling of 'impersonate the GoT character' type direction for a lot more than young Rhaenyra. You had Rhaenyra <--> Daenerys Daemon <--> Viscerys (II/ Lloyd, not Considine) Larys <--> Littlefinger Otto <--> Tywin and Alicent <--> Cersei. Even going so far as having relatively minor character parallels like Westerling <--> Selmy. To be fair to them though that's the sort of thing I always look for.

[Hurlshort]

I finished Book of Boba Fett. I had watched the first couple episodes and lost interest, but I circled back. It's only 7 episodes and that felt right. It gets better when it just becomes The Mandalorian season 3. There was a really good episode directed by Ron Howard's daughter where they just rebuild a starship for the entirety. Those are the details I enjoyed. The story was bad, for the most part, but there were some likeable characters along the way. I found it was best to ignore the plot and enjoy the neat sets and costumes.

[uuuhhii]

On 11/1/2022 at 6:50 AM, LadyCrimson said:

I don't like CC being used as general subtitles either, since I also find stuff like "door creaking", "leaves rustling" and "kettle whistling" visually distracting, since my auto-response is to glance at any text on-screen so it's hard to ignore it. I get the saving costs aspect tho.  On the flip side, I also don't like "fan subtitles" where they "asterisk*-describe too many cultural explanations to the tune of long paragraphs that covers half the screen/requires pausing to even read it all anyway. Brief tidbits of extra info is cool/interesting at times, but some get carried away is all.

always liked the sub that explain reference

othewise it would take years to notice a joke or never

especially those rely on pop culture knowledge or pun

[Lexx]

Started watching Guillermo del Toro's Cabinet of Curiosities on Netflix. First two episodes weren't too bad. Kinda reminds me of the old Beyond Belief: Fact or Fiction.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

2 hours ago, Lexx said:

Started watching Guillermo del Toro's Cabinet of Curiosities on Netflix. First two episodes weren't too bad. Kinda reminds me of the old Beyond Belief: Fact or Fiction.

 

[majestic]

Fun fact: Fact or Fiction was so much more popular in Germany than in the US that some seasons actually premiered in Germany. In spite of being dubbed.  

 

[Keyrock]

I always enjoyed Jonathan Frakes telling me how wrong I was:

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

3 minutes ago, Keyrock said:

I always enjoyed Jonathan Frakes telling me how wrong I was:

 

 

[Gromnir]

proof we woulda' been willing to watch jack palance in just 'bout anything.

HA! Good Fun!

[Lexx]

1 hour ago, majestic said:

Fun fact: Fact or Fiction was so much more popular in Germany than in the US that some seasons actually premiered in Germany. In spite of being dubbed.  

 

Yeah, it's still running here every sunday in normal tv I think. We watched it every time back in the days.

[LadyCrimson]

Re-watching the first two seasons of NBC-cancelled Manifest, then will watch the third season (which I skipped because - mega cliffhanger+cancelled), because Netflix finally decided to pick up and do a 4th final season (starts Friday).
I was going to "reminder" blaze thru the first two seasons but then hubby decided he was interested so no FFWD'ing for me now. 

It's one of those series that grew on me over the first season - it has a little too much family melodrama and it's nothing super original (or logical...), but it has that sort of comfort food bingeable feeling, or something. Here's hoping that final season won't suck while actually giving viewers at least some answers.

[Zoraptor]

Gangs of London S2

S1 was a guilty pleasure where the shonky plot was papered over by the biggest helping of hilariously ott schlocky action since Anthony Starr got too injured to do stunts on Banshee*. No fights come anywhere close to the opening fight from S1 or the farmhouse and S2 had an even more shonky plot but maybe, just maybe, approached OK despite that. The series really needs to make up its mind if it's trying to be 'realistic' or cartoon silly and go with one or the other though. What they've ended up with is a messy hybrid that doesn't have enough action/ cartoonishness but also doesn't work as a drama.

The big negative is the plotting. They actually had the basics of a decent one- or at least a decent one to hang action around- and at times it was actually pretty good. But then they needed the plot to go from A --> B or wanted to keep someone alive for a S3 and didn't have a way to do it that made sense and just... went with it not making sense.

Spoiler

No less than three people survived who really, really shouldn't have. Sean, and I'm sure it's a major shock to anyone who saw the end of S1 that he's back, for a second time. The Algerian girl Saba, who Koba as previously characterised would have insisted be killed in front of him or just sent back to them in pieces. And Lale who 100% ought to have been dead. All of them would be OK if they came up with a good scenario for them surviving, but they didn't.

OTOH, Koba was a walking cliché who should have died far earlier or been retooled as a character. He was pretty well acted and there was nothing wrong with his lines as lines, but he was also very obviously a walking plot device who caused most of the plot inconsistencies.

Nobody's going to win BAFTAs for the acting or writing, but it was better than you might expect from schlock since it managed to make me care somewhat about some of the characters.

*Having mentioned Banshee its spiritual successor 'Warrior' does a similar thing to GoL, and does it far better.

[Raithe]

 

[Hurlshort]

I started watching She-Hulk with my daughter. It's hilarious. It's a solid situational comedy set in the MCU, and I'm enjoying it. I don't understand what the complaints were. *shrug*

edit: It reminds me of Parker Lewis Can't Lose.

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by Hurlshort