The TV and Streaming Thread: Now up for syndication...

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

4 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

By the way, I did watch the next episode of Midnight Mass. Uh...yeah, that was pretty wack.

How in the hell does someone look at that thing and conclude "Angel". Like it makes narrative sense, but come on folks, it's a ****ing vampire.

That old man really has dementia.

[Bartimaeus]

6 minutes ago, KP Cross Split Attack said:

 

  Hide contents

How in the hell does someone look at that thing and conclude "Angel". Like it makes narrative sense, but come on folks, it's a ****ing vampire.

That old man really has dementia.

 

Midnight Mass spoilers:

Spoiler

Yeah, I thought of that...but also, he literally had dementia, was maimed, and then the thing force-fed him demon blood or whatever, and a "miracle" happened immediately after. Don't think he was in much of a position to argue, especially if the blood-feeding then caused him to be possessed. Also, Biblically-described angels are incomprehensibly more terrifying than that thing (Evangelion "angels" are way closer to Biblical descriptions of angels than anything else I can think of, and even they're relatively tame if you try to envision angels as literally described), so while it does obviously look like a vampire demon, at least it's humanoid. So all in all, I'm not too phased by it.

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Bartimaeus

[Zoraptor]

Non spoiler WoT TLDR: Ep1 is decidedly meh. Ep2 is far, far better. And I haven't watched Ep3 yet. If there's one problem that looks like it's going to linger it's that the whole thing looks like Great Value LOTR trilogy

I don't think there are any serious spoilers, but I'm not going to be too careful about obfuscation so...

Ep1:
 

Spoiler

Yeah, not great. The pacing is off badly with too many things glossed over and other things pointlessly added. The character scene setting is simply bad. And of course most significantly (1) you couldn't grow tabac in that environment and (2) my man Narg isn't smart.

The intro/ voice over is simply bad. It's allegedly a replacement for an intro that tested badly (featuring the actual prophecy from Gitara Moroso, per New Spring) and if so it shows- though the secondary intro with Liandrin is fine and does some decent foreshadowing with the channeler having an imaginary friend. Rumours of four ta'veren escaping the Two Rivers? To a book reader stupid, to a casual viewer, confusing. Surely the 5 minutes of Egwene being chucked in the river could have been used better for pretty much anything. Everyone knowing Moiraine is Aes Sedai immediately, and Nynaeve's story of the old wisdom getting rejected do not appeal as great changes, indeed as at top there are an awful lot of narrative bludgeonings across the head all round with the character vignettes- not even an ounce of subtlety on display. The trollocs end up looking like LOTR uruks wearing novelty hats half the time too. Obviously, the worst addition is Perrin's wife and her getting fridged near instantaneously. There's a reason that's a widely derided trope, and here it's mind numbingly stereotypically applied. If I gave ratings it'd struggle to maybe 2/5, if I were feeling generous.

Ep 2:

Spoiler

Near infinitely better, and the narrative bludgeon has been mostly honed down to a bit more of a sharp point. The exception is Taren Ferry. Book wise, of course, there weren't nazgul a myrdraal literally sitting on the other side and the ferry was sunk in a quasi deniable manner; if you're going to sink it in an obvious and undeniable manner you might as well knock a hole in the bottom or set it on fire. Instead we got a pointlessly theatrical sinking lacking only maniacal laughter and a moustache twirl solely to ram home the point that Moiraine was ruthless. OTOH, while about as subtle as a brick to the skull the Eamon Valda and later Bornhold scenes actually did a really good job, despite the concerns I had about them. More of that sort of scene setting, please. For the rest, there are still quibbles a plenty if you want to make them- having established Trollocs hate rivers you'd expect Lan to get them to swim the conveniently right there river instead of hunkering down in Shadar Logoth- but the pacing is so much better that you don't have any time to dwell on them. Overall, the classic 3.6/5, not great, but not terrible.

And a general observation, Mat is far and away the most convincing casting, so far. It really is a shame he doesn't stick around.

And look at that, I managed to get through it without a single comparison to Game of Thrones. I should win a prize.

[Sarex]

9 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

Non spoiler WoT TLDR: Ep1 is decidedly meh. Ep2 is far, far better. And I haven't watched Ep3 yet. If there's one problem that looks like it's going to linger it's that the whole thing looks like Great Value LOTR trilogy

Didn't watch it yet, but the first two books were were also very much like the lord of the rings.

[Zoraptor]

It's very much the visual style that is derivative of the lotr movies. The plot and appearance of the Two Rivers is actually a lot less LOTResque than the source material.

Anyway, WoT ep3- nested spoiler would be pretty big for a non book reader so be warned

Spoiler

And it has pacing issues again, though to be fair in the books there's a lot of people separately going from x to y with set up for future events too. There's also the slightly weird phenomenon of one group being in near desert, one in rugged treeless mountains, and one in heavy forest while all being theoretically close together having not been separated for long. The only real plot development (as opposed to set up) is meeting Thom and a darkfriend who is a pretty decent amalgam of the various darkfriends (plus a dash of Else Grinwell) book Mat and Rand run into in the various towns, that have also been amalgamated into one generic town. She also has probably the most sympathetic of the darkfriend motivations, or at least claims it and overall was pretty well done as a character. Also- and be warned it's a major book spoiler

Spoiler

we get a bit of a Godel Howe moment. Not the full on 'lucky' lightning bolt saving the day, but Rand knocks down a reinforced door, and with book knowledge it's pretty clear how. Would be interesting to know if any non book readers are suspicious of that or more fixated on Perrin attracting wolves and having dreams with some burning face dude and his dead wife in them and Egwene making gems glow and starting fires.

Otherwise... well. Blademaster Tam has difficulty handling a single trolloc (albeit it was probably Narg the smart trolloc) with Rand's help and gets injured, but Nynaeve manages to solo one. Not a fan of that at all, and it's not like she doesn't have an absolute heap of kick arse moments to come without adding that to it. Pretty difficult episode to rate really, since it has so much set up for things which are obviously going to be significant later like Logain. Definitely still better than ep1, bit worse than ep2.

 

[Sarex]

3 minutes ago, Zoraptor said:

It's very much the visual style that is derivative of the lotr movies. The plot and appearance of the Two Rivers is actually a lot less LOTResque than the source material.

I misunderstood you then.

I do not understand most of the changes made from the books. They strike me as cheap attempts to elicit emotions from the audience, while others don't make any sense at all. While episode 1 isn't terrible, it's not good by any stretch of the imagination.

[HoonDing]

It's theoretically possible to have people from Arad Doman/Tarabon/Ebo Dar/etc. moving there but weren't all Two Rivers people white? 

[Sarex]

11 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

It's theoretically possible to have people from Arad Doman/Tarabon/Ebo Dar/etc. moving there but weren't all Two Rivers people white? 

That is the least of the changes they made.

[Sarex]

Watched all 3 episodes. Solid meh so far.

[Zoraptor]

1 hour ago, HoonDing said:

It's theoretically possible to have people from Arad Doman/Tarabon/Ebo Dar/etc. moving there but weren't all Two Rivers people white? 

Well yeah, but it wouldn't actually matter if the show population there was black, asian or indian so long as it was more or less consistent. The only thing they should have avoided for plot reasons was having the town look like a Bennetton advert, which of course they did because posturing > plotting.

otoh (mild ep3 spoilers)

Spoiler

Aiel are keeping their racial characteristics.

(Ironically having the stereotypical 'woke' racial diversity quota in somewhere as isolated as the Two Rivers could only happen- in reality- if the races close to only bred within themselves. Not exactly what the typical adherent of wokeness would want to be implying

And for anyone wondering why, apart from genetics the major factors are isolation and slow transportation speeds, and not having any disposable income. You'd get diversity in sea ports and major cities especially on major trade routes or rivers, small villages though would be little i inbred as anything and the vast majority of the population would live and die close to where they were born)

Edited November 19, 2021 by Zoraptor

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

9 hours ago, Bartimaeus said:

Midnight Mass spoilers:

  Reveal hidden contents

Yeah, I thought of that...but also, he literally had dementia, was maimed, and then the thing force-fed him demon blood or whatever, and a "miracle" happened immediately after. Don't think he was in much of a position to argue, especially if the blood-feeding then caused him to be possessed. Also, Biblically-described angels are incomprehensibly more terrifying than that thing (Evangelion "angels" are way closer to Biblical descriptions of angels than anything else I can think of, and even they're relatively tame if you try to envision angels as literally described), so while it does obviously look like a vampire demon, at least it's humanoid. So all in all, I'm not too phased by it.

 

 

Spoiler

For me I could take a biblical angel better than the vampire angel, if only because it clearly is a vampire. It makes sense because the old priest has dementia and the vampire could have made him its thrall, but it's still a little jarring to me. Because (very minor spoiler, will not spoil anything related to plot)

Spoiler

It is never referred to by anyone as a vampire. Which makes me think that this takes in an alternate timeline where vampire fiction doesn't exist. There is no way anyone could have seen that thing and not thought of vampire.

Overall though that's a minor quibble and there are bigger problems with drawn out dialogue that does not seem to pace well. It is still a very good show that I'd recommend to anyone who likes horror.

 

[Lexx]

Watched the first episode of Wheel of Time but fell asleep in the middle of it. : x

Edited November 19, 2021 by Lexx

[LadyCrimson]

Black - another k-drama (sci-fi/fantasy/thriller/melodrama/a little romance) I've had listed for ages. Probably watched half the first episode way back when but ofc remember nothing so started over. Basic premise is personifications of Grim Reapers/culture, a woman who sees "shadows" next to ppl and thus knows they'll die, a specific Reaper in human form to do a task, and a two decades old crime mystery. A lot of the episodes are over an hour, some close to 90minutes, which isn't typical.

The first episode is so full of setup that it's rather confusing. You're just all "what/who/where." It's interesting and maybe even compelling, but it's all over the place.
2nd episode some dark/wacky humor comes into play and while you're still left in the dark for some reason it starts to make more sense and you're becoming hopeful that all these threads are going to come into play at some point.
3rd episode, extra melodrama and backstory comes into play
4th episode I'm fairly well invested and starting to make guesses about how those threads are going to connect and whether it'll be good or disappoint.  

...but now I have to take a break from Black to try Cowboy Bebop.

Edited November 19, 2021 by LadyCrimson

[uuuhhii]

8 hours ago, Sarex said:

Watched all 3 episodes. Solid meh so far.

have the same feeling about the first book

but the second one are great

though couldn't keep up with the increasing number of character after that and eventually stop reading

[Sarex]

3 minutes ago, uuuhhii said:

have the same feeling about the first book

but the second one are great

though couldn't keep up with the increasing number of character after that and eventually stop reading

I love the books, read them a couple of times. Although I can understand that it's not your cup of tea.

[the_dog_days]

30 minutes ago, Sarex said:

I love the books, read them a couple of times. Although I can understand that it's not your cup of tea.

TWoT is one of my favorite epic fantasy series. I've read the whole series more times than I care to admit. One thing I knew they wouldn't get right because it's nearly impossible to in a visual medium is how the series is supposed to act as the origin and monomyth for all mythologies and legends.

[Sarex]

7 minutes ago, the_dog_days said:

TWoT is one of my favorite epic fantasy series. I've read the whole series more times than I care to admit. One thing I knew they wouldn't get right because it's nearly impossible to in a visual medium is how the series is supposed to act as the origin and monomyth for all mythologies and legends.

I don't think that even crossed the showrunners minds...

[Bartimaeus]

Midnight Mass, episode 4. Holy crap on so many levels. First it was existential terror, then a profound sadness, then a little hope...and then something else. The show is getting to me, that's for sure.

[LadyCrimson]

Cowboy Bebop, episode 1 - (remember, I only saw maybe 1 episode of the anime ages ago) ... well, Cho is good/adorable. the set/cgi mostly looks pretty good, and ... that's about it for me. The major action bits, it's weird because they seem like they would be at least viscerally engaging but there's something a little off about them, that sort of ruins any kinetic energy flow. Image composition, frame pacing, actor motion/editing, I'm not sure. Overall, can't say whether it's good or bad vs. anime, but it's all a little too "noir" with some choppy paced editing choices and that "Netflix original" vibe that doesn't suit me that much.  It's not terrible tho.

Apparently Hellbound, a religious/belief (?) horror/kdrama, also is now available so I switched to that. Despite the "monsters" being stupid looking vs., well, hellish or horrifying, so far it's more my style.    I can say that it's no Squid Game, however, so don't expect that level.

...will probably go back to Black.

Edited November 19, 2021 by LadyCrimson

[InsaneCommander]

23 hours ago, majestic said:

Star Dreck: Venal Disease, Season 4, episode one.

Opens with a very helpful reminder of how absolutely balls to the walls dumb the premise of last season was. 700 years in the future, the Federation was unable to find reliable alternatives to the warp drive that have been in use in various "25 years into the future" episodes throughout the entire run of the franchise, several alternatives to warp drives that were already pretty much reliable in the older shows, but hey, never mind. Been there, done that.

[InsaneCommander]

The Wheel of Time 1-3:

I agree with most of the criticism said here, but I was prepared for all of that so I enjoyed these three episodes.
 

Spoiler

The first scenes of episode 1 were bad, but it got better eventually. Still, it all felt really rushed and there were many things that should have been better explained, even if it meant cutting several scenes.

Nynaeve doesn't need to be a badass melee fighter. She is good with other things. Tam should have been much better at fighting, maybe with another Trolloc attacking him from a distance to injure him? Perrin and Laila were better than a blademaster???

Somebody on Reddit (possible spoilers here) claims the first 6 episodes have already leaked and "episode 4 will turn this into a cultural phenomenon".

[Zoraptor]

They'd have to expect them to leak, way too many reviewers got the 6 eps rather than 3. I would reiterate that the first 3 are good enough that I'll keep watching, despite my quibbles and more significant dislike of ep1.

2 hours ago, Sarex said:

I don't think that even crossed the showrunners minds...

I'd be pretty sure that they're aware of it, at least. Some of the xray stuff was pretty detailed and explained the differences from the books, and you really cannot miss the Arthurian (or Jesus) parallels in the books without being deliberately obtuse about it. It not being a priority to show is perfectly understandable though, as are things like having Thom sing a very thinly veiled song about the Dragon instead of their legendary stories based on our history.

(and on the subject of the real world bases for their legends I always assumed that the 'Salya' story was Salyut, the first space station. Not being American I only knew about Tereshkova and had literally no idea who Sally Ride even was apart from her being in a line from "We didn't start the fire" until I checked if there was any more real world references in the books and they all say that it's a reference to Sally Ride instead.

I'd fight the ghost of RJ over it)

[Raithe]

I've been keeping an eye on some of the bigger WoT websites and youtube streamers, and overall, it seems the majority of the fans are fairly happy with what's been adapted. Of course, most of those people have been engaging through the streamers with Rafe (the showrunner) and most of the cast and screenwriters. Who have been slowly filtering out potential changes and how and why things are being adapted in specific ways.  A great way of managing expectations.

It's interesting, they flew a bunch of them out to London for the premiere event, and some of the actors were engaging with the streamers in that whole "I've been doing interviews and q&a with you for the past 2 years, great to finally meet you, how are the kids? did you enjoy the flight? hows the hotel?"

[Lexx]

52 minutes ago, InsaneCommander said:

episode 4 will turn this into a cultural phenomenon

What does that mean?

[Zoraptor]

Even non genre fans will know about it, basically. It'll be the semi legendary thing known as 'water cooler talk'.

GoT wise it would something like the ending to ep1 with Jaime giving Bran a demonstration of defenestration, Ned getting Ilyn Payned or most notably (and of course far later comparatively) the Red Wedding. A big hook to draw in a more general audience and make it need to see TV.