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Politics US Edition (2021!)


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17 minutes ago, rjshae said:

There were individuals in the mob who definitely had sedition on their minds, and hopefully those are being rounded up. For most though though, it was probably more of a "apes together strong" riot by the far right. Unfortunately, the sedistionists were likely also the leaders and initiators.

There have been several arrests...all the well filmed instigators have basically been arrested. This includes

  • Camp Auschwitz guy : my most deplorable person
  • The cosplay guy with the horns : he said he did because that is what Trump wanted them to do to save the Democracy
  • The guy with the Confederate flag 
  • A 52 old ex-Airforce colonel ( or similar rank or unit   ) who was turned in by his ex-wife who recognized him on the TV
  • And countless others who were  visible in the media

So I want to commend the various US security forces involved for addressing this quickly and effectively. That is why I dont think there will be serious violence on the 20 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

Thanks for that. I was about to say that I believed that new coke was actually sweeter than old coke and that was one of the reasons that Pepsi was beating it in a blind taste.

Mind you this is mostly second hand info as I was like 3 when all this went down

Free games updated 3/4/21

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Eryc86eW4AEspmh?format=png&name=900x900

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"Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."

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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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19 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

Thanks for that. I was about to say that I believed that new coke was actually sweeter than old coke and that was one of the reasons that Pepsi was beating it in a blind taste.

Mind you this is mostly second hand info as I was like 3 when all this went down

we were a bit older than three.

our visual memory is excellent. our audio memory is ok. olfactory and taste? 85 were a long time past. if somebody put before us dixie cups with varieties o' not readily available cola soda and then asked us to pick out new coke, am not having a high degree o' confidence we could accurate identify. we literal tasted the stuff on less than ten separate occasions during one summer more than three decades in the rear view mirror. 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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27 minutes ago, Achilles said:

 

He made some really good observations and I agree with his point. Calling this an insurrection or a sedition is giving it too much clout and too much credit. Far better to call it a motley disorganized mob. It’s always wise to deny the enemy something they want. If they want credibility it’s wise to deny than that.

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Get off my lawn!

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7 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

He made some really good observations and I agree with his point. Calling this an insurrection or a sedition is giving it too much clout and too much credit. Far better to call it a motley disorganized mob. It’s always wise to deny the enemy something they want. If they want credibility it’s wise to deny than that.

That is correct, you dont want to give certain developments agency by reading too much into what was their real motivation

We all know there was  blatant criminal behavior by some in the violent mob, I have seen some really bad stories on CNN by some of the Capitol cops and they were really abused and attacked

But we musnt call it something its not, I like the violent mob definition personally ?

'

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I totally agree it was a mob with no clear organization. I say the same thing when people try to blame antifa for everything. There is not clear leadership structure and no concrete agenda other than breaking stuff and looking tough. 

I still think you can hold Trump responsible for creating the mess. Since the election, he has eroded the democratic process with fake hyperbole and called for action from his base. The President should be held to the highest standard.

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9 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

I totally agree it was a mob with no clear organization. I say the same thing when people try to blame antifa for everything. There is not clear leadership structure and no concrete agenda other than breaking stuff and looking tough. 

I still think you can hold Trump responsible for creating the mess. Since the election, he has eroded the democratic process with fake hyperbole and called for action from his base. The President should be held to the highest standard.

Plus he literally told him to go do what they did. He didn’t explicitly tell them go break in the capital terrorize the Congress and trash everything in sight. But he came just short of it with what he did say. You can’t light a stick of dynamite throw it away and then be blameless for what it blows up

Get off my lawn!

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17 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

I keep thinking that any charges on anyone involved should really be brought on the 21st, and not a moment before or after...

Why? Did you have same approach to creators of lawless autonomous zones, where people were murdered and property destroyed? 

 

Sure, prosecute and sentence those individuals, who were responsible for bodily harm, plus those who did significant damage to property or stole, but a lot of that mob went there in protest, not as a lynch mob to kill other people or secede or in attempt to coup. More of a manifest of their political support to the current president. 

 

I also agree, that Trump was responsible for making that mob angry enough, but I do not believe this was a delibarate act of inciting to voilence. Cynism and political hyperbole, but still within the premise of political speach. Ignorant and irresponsible, but not that much different than a lot of politicians do. 

Why people allow and pick such politicians using such a language to position of significance, that's another story, but it is an ugly byproduct of masses being generally stupid, leading to democracy being in time devolved to idiocracy. 

Edited by Darkpriest
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53 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

I totally agree it was a mob with no clear organization. I say the same thing when people try to blame antifa for everything. There is not clear leadership structure and no concrete agenda other than breaking stuff and looking tough. 

I still think you can hold Trump responsible for creating the mess. Since the election, he has eroded the democratic process with fake hyperbole and called for action from his base. The President should be held to the highest standard.

am not sure why some people believe a recognition that the january 6 rioters were a mob somehow precludes the possibility that many people and sub-groups w/i the mob were engaging in seditious behavior.

am also gonna admit that the video linked by @Achilles has the speaker beginning with observations which were new to us. have watched a bit of fox and cnn. have read a fair amount at npr, washington post and many national newspapers. the description o' the mob elements as highly skilled were a bit o' a straw man in our personal experience as have literal never seen that claim made in the week since the Capitol riot. am not doubting a few pundits identified some select rioters or groups o' rioters as being militarized to some degree, but we all saw bison horn guy and who amongst us thought he were an element o' a well-trained militia group? the folks being arrested so far, or who is showing up frequent in news stories, is hvac repairmen from chicago or real estate agents from new jersey. an olympic medal swimmer were arrested. the singer in the article we linked earlier didn't strike us as skilled in modern combat techniques. the retired fireman who was bludgeoning cops with a fire extinguisher may not have been a professional, but he clear crossed a line and that line were not fuzzy and tough to recognize.

how many of the rioters who entered Capitol property w/o permission were hoping to at least delay the electoral college counting? 

not skilled professionals. however, is tough to not see trump as A inciting cause and many were bent on actions which fall w/i any dictionary or legal definition o' seditiious.

a seditious mob is not an oxymoron.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir
why did we write "newspapers" as two words?

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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18 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

I keep thinking that any charges on anyone involved should really be brought on the 21st, and not a moment before or after...

If that's to get around Trump's pardon power, as I understand it he can pardon them without them being charged, and without specifying he's pardoning a specific person.  So waiting to charge people until the 21st doesn't do anything to negate Trump's pardon power.

 

EDIT: I too hadn't heard people say the rioters were highly skilled/trained group.  I have heard people talk about their organization and what that means for their intent (like knowing where windows were and directing people to them so they could penetrate further, etc).

Edited by Amentep
my english language skills are clearly suffering.
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2 minutes ago, Bartimaeus said:

That sounds like code for, "I won't obstruct the vote or threaten to have you primaried if you oppose me"

"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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45 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Trump has an obligation to pardon rioters

well, that’s one way to look at it. Good luck with that legal strategy

I'm thinking at this point that whether Trump pardons the ape-men rioters or not, or even himself, will go a long way toward determining the outcome of the impeachment. A pardon will have to come in the next few days; the Senate trial will likely follow.

"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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32 minutes ago, Amentep said:

If that's to get around Trump's pardon power, as I understand it he can pardon them without them being charged, and without specifying he's pardoning a specific person.  So waiting to charge people until the 21st doesn't do anything to negate Trump's pardon power.

 

EDIT: I too hadn't heard people say the rioters were highly skilled/trained group.  I have heard people talk about their organization and what that means for their intent (like knowing where windows were and directing people to them so they could penetrate further, etc).

Yes, but this is Trump we're talking about. If it's never brought to his attention while he's watching TV or reading headlines on Twitter or whatever, it's probably a lot less likely to happen, :p.

In regards to the insurrection, there's a lady that Twitter has been calling the Bullhorn Lady who was calling out specific instructions and telling people where whose offices were located where. Here's a picture of her on the left...and a picture of Lauren Boebert's mother (the QAnon House Representative who's been trying to bring guns into Congress and also tweeted out the location of Nancy Pelosi during the insurrection) on the right:

NiiO8wm.jpeg

Nancy Pelosi, just a little while ago today, announced that they'd be charging any Congress representatives who helped carry out the insurrection. Can't help but wonder if there's a little foreshadowing here.

Edited by Bartimaeus
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53 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

Why? Did you have same approach to creators of lawless autonomous zones, where people were murdered and property destroyed? 

Do you think people involved in murder and property destruction in Portland (and other areas) are not being prosecuted for their crimes?

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1 minute ago, Hurlshot said:

Do you think people involved in murder and property destruction in Portland (and other areas) are not being prosecuted for their crimes?

Probably better not to feed into "whataboutism". My $0.02

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"Art and song are creations but so are weapons and lies"

"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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Seems like a Ghillie suit is a poor choice of outerwear for a protest in DC. Well or even storming a building. 

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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4 minutes ago, Achilles said:

Probably better not to feed into "whataboutism". My $0.02

More like "probably better not to feed into patently and offensively absurd questions and those who ask them in bad faith". Who was that even responding to?

Oh, it was me. Well, that just about figures, doesn't it?

Edited by Bartimaeus
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49 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

Do you think people involved in murder and property destruction in Portland (and other areas) are not being prosecuted for their crimes?

Well it's certainly happening in Seattle, albeit at a slower pace because of the pandemic. For example:

https://www.kuow.org/stories/who-faces-criminal-charges-related-to-seattle-area-protests-here-s-a-roundup

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"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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9 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

What! Only another 2T!?!?!? He better come bigger than that weaksauce. 

 

9 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Spend more.... More.... MORE.... MORE!!!!  Collapse the dollar, hyper inflation, $1k loaves of bread! Let it all BURN. BURN! 

If Australia can afford 1 trillion and give people up to $1500 every two weeks, then why can't America afford 2 trillion? We don't have $1k loaves of bread. You can buy bread from the supermarket here for $1.30

https://shop.coles.com.au/a/national/product/coles-smart-buy-bread-white

 

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