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Politics US Edition (2021!)


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The Trump legacy: a broken Republican Party

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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Gondor Has No King

S—t is starting to get weird 

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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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18 hours ago, Gromnir said:

we read, and again, just 'cause they share same sites does not mean they are ideological aligned. look at this board for examples.

Qanon comes straight from 4chan's /pol/ board. Similar to how you can reasonably assume that posters on this board are fans of particular types of videogames, you can assume posters on /pol/ are going to be right-wing and racist. If you want to argue that a conspiracy theory originating on a forum known for an unusual prevalence of nazis and claims that George Soros and the Democrats are running a satanic pedophile cannibal ring which only Donald Trump can stop isn't aligned with anti-semitic and white nationalist bull**** go ahead, but it seems to be a weird hill to die on.

18 hours ago, Gromnir said:

you did notice the article is trying to explain how q ain't exact the alt-right group folks tend to believe it to be, yes? is an extreme small fringe group which appeals most to individuals with high bs receptivity.

"When we combine these four questions into a single summary measure of conspiracy thinking, we find that they are strongly correlated with positive views of QAnon, regardless of the survey respondent’s partisanship."

is not racial. is basic conspiracy nutter measures such as low education and a high degree o' dissatisfaction.

Yes, I scoured the article and the survey it drew from. Unfortunately there's no mention of how anything besides being prone to conspiracy theory factors into belief support of Qanon, or anything on who in the study was more likely to buy into conspiratorial thinking. All the article tells us is that conspiracy prone people across party lines view a conspiracy theory more favorably than average by about 6% which isn't particularly profound or enlightening. If you've got an analysis that shows who those 24% who view Qanon favorably are by race, education, and/or income then I'd like to see it, but unfortunately it isn't mentioned in the article or clearly illustrated in the polls.

18 hours ago, Gromnir said:

you did lump white voters together based on crude numbers

I said that being white was a better predictor for Trump support than education, and that Qanon is probably similar to Trump' hardline supporters. If you want to provide something about the later go ahead (the WaPo came up short), but the former at least is borne out by the pew research data you've posted twice now. Looking at the chart you've linked, the only better singular predictor of a Trump voter than being white is being a Republican. Hell, even the caveat I made that education was a massive factor among white voters is displayed in the graph.

PP_2020.10.09_election-and-voter-attitud

18 hours ago, Gromnir said:

assume for the moment white is somehow the core indicator, then how does that change anything?

It provides an additional avenue to look into how Trump and similar finds appeal. If people of color with a high school or less education aren't embracing Trump nearly as much as their white counterparts, then clearly there's more to Trump support than just not going to college. Given who was storming the capitol on the 6th, an increased focus on white nationalism as a terrorist movement and it's links to more mainstream right-wing groups seems to be something that would be beneficial in general, that it also would target Qanon and Trump hives by pure coincidence is a bonus. It's also far more likely to see a crackdown on such things, hopefully in a way that prevents them from radicalizing a mostly white group of people, than a successful national education reform that results in more educated populace, whether by college degree or a more enriching public education.

Edited by KaineParker
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"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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6 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Gondor Has No King

S—t is starting to get weird 

"In the complaint, the former lawyer also asks the court to protect him from being taken into custody for his actions during the insurrection."

Article saved the best part for last

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Hawaii GOP promoting a holocaust denier.

 

Edited by KaineParker

"I am the expert, asshat." - Hurlsnot

"You need to be careful, lest I write another ten page essay on mythology and how it relates to Sailor Moon." - majestic

"I won't say what just in case KaineParker is reading" - Bartimaeus

"Oh no! Is there super secret ending as well? I don’t care." - Wormerine

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Heh, you have nutts on both sides. 

 

At one point, someone decided that a long standing, long time used hand gesture for an OK sign is meaning something else, or you get people in congress look stupid by adding to the end of a prayer using a latin/hebrew phrase Amen(so be it!) another word, completely irrelevant to the context, A-women... 

 

Also, 'minorities' are in majority conservative when it comes to genders and beliefs. There is only so much they will trade in for some extra buck. 

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The meaning of hand gestures changing is just a thing that happens. Just look at the Bellamy salute for an obvious example. The case of the OK hand sign turning into a white supremacist symbol is terrible. While it started out as a stupid 4chan joke, it eventually started being used by actual white supremacists unironically. It was used by some Trump supporters at the Capitol, for example, and by the Christchurch mosque shooter.

"My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist
I am Dan Quayle of the Romans.
I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.
Heja Sverige!!
Everyone should cuffawkle more.
The wrench is your friend. :bat:

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"Zykon B was used as a delousing agent - thus it can't be deadly unless you get it all over yourself". Perfect reasoning.

Maybe somebody should put that weak excuse for a human being into a chamber with Zyklon B and check if what he said is true - just to demonstrate how "harmless" it is of course. Along with the Hawaiian GOP member who share the evil nonsense of such scumbags. For science! 

By the way: concentration camp prisoners were also mass murdered with engine exhaust gas. Which - as we all know - is used as a demousing agent and is mostly harmless unless you get it all over yourself.

Jeez I have to go puke now.

 

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3 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

The meaning of hand gestures changing is just a thing that happens. Just look at the Bellamy salute for an obvious example. The case of the OK hand sign turning into a white supremacist symbol is terrible. While it started out as a stupid 4chan joke, it eventually started being used by actual white supremacists unironically. It was used by some Trump supporters at the Capitol, for example, and by the Christchurch mosque shooter.

Just because some nutts start using that, it does not mean it should be interpreted as such. This is cultural appropriation at its worst. What makes it that bad, is that it now is forced at other areas as something bad. People need to learn US cultural issues=/worlds cultural issues

 

There is a long standing issue in Japan, that their certain religious sign is deemed in western world as something very bad, due to a certain party in Germany using that mark. 

Even though it predates the recent use by hundreds of years. 

I think the only reason the Japanese choked it up on the international level, is due to the fact that they were working as part of the anti-allied forces. Normally it would be deemed as culturally offensive. 

 

Things going stupid are resultiing in such topics

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/03/democrats-propose-ban-gender-specific-words-new-rules-congress/

while you have issues like this brewing for years. 

https://www.ydr.com/story/news/2019/05/14/military-service-most-young-people-dont-qualify-careers/1185816001

How do you think, US will look like in 10-20 years looking at the focus of the discourse, polarization in society over stupid matters like pronouns, or Math is racist, and with  competitors doing thins like this

https://phys.org/news/2021-01-world-quantum-network.html

 

 

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If you mean the Swastika, that's mostly from India. To be more precise: it's mostly used in Hinduism but also Jainism and Buddhism. It's still widely used in India today. 

The symbol that the Japanese use(d) on maps to mark positions of temples is not a Swastika - because it's mirrored. Of course here in Germany wanna-be Nazis even get that wrong so...

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1 minute ago, Boeroer said:

If you mean the Swastika, that's mostly from India. To be more precise: it's mostly used in Hinduism but also Jainism and Buddhism. It's still widely used in India today. 

The symbol that the Japanese use(d) on maps to mark positions of temples is not a Swastika - because it's mirrored. Of course here in Germany wanna-be Nazis even get that wrong so...

Thanks for adding the India part, I recall it was there as well. Not sure if they self censor it in any way though. 

In Japan I recall they self censor that on tourist maps, even though it only resembles the Swastika mark. 

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My wife had an Indian colleague when she studied in France - he was completely unaware that he shouldn't show the Swastika or else get in trouble. At first he didn't even want to comply because he only new the symbol as one for rising sun/hope etc. After a short history lesson he understood. Since he was/is a well educated lad I guess India in general doesn't really bother.

Japan even removing mirrored swastikas is understandable because they were (kind of) allied with the Nazis. 

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3 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

Heh, you have nutts on both sides. 

 

At one point, someone decided that a long standing, long time used hand gesture for an OK sign is meaning something else, or you get people in congress look stupid by adding to the end of a prayer using a latin/hebrew phrase Amen(so be it!) another word, completely irrelevant to the context, A-women... 

 

 

I hadn’t heard about this one so I looked it up. You’re right it did happen. That’s just weapons grade stupid. The guy that did it said he was just making a joke but I think he really didn’t know and just made that excuse afterwards. 
 

i’m telling you guys the time is coming closer and closer when I just say the hell with this crazy modern world and go live in the woods off the grid and away from everyone. Hell I’m halfway there already

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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1 hour ago, Darkpriest said:

Just because some nutts start using that, it does not mean it should be interpreted as such. This is cultural appropriation at its worst. What makes it that bad, is that it now is forced at other areas as something bad. People need to learn US cultural issues=/worlds cultural issues

 

It's more than understandable not to like it, and there's a bunch of contexts where the OK sign was(is?) widely and helpfully used. However, this is how language works. Meanings are defined and are changed by everyday usage. If you have a bunch of white supremacists actively using a previously innocuous symbol in order to "troll the libs", the meaning of that symbol may become indelibly associated with white supremacism. It should be interpreted as such if it is intended as such.

"My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist
I am Dan Quayle of the Romans.
I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.
Heja Sverige!!
Everyone should cuffawkle more.
The wrench is your friend. :bat:

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8 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

It's more than understandable not to like it, and there's a bunch of contexts where the OK sign was(is?) widely and helpfully used. However, this is how language works. Meanings are defined and are changed by everyday usage. If you have a bunch of white supremacists actively using a previously innocuous symbol in order to "troll the libs", the meaning of that symbol may become indelibly associated with white supremacism. It should be interpreted as such if it is intended as such.

Well I guess every scuba qualifying agency is going to have to change their procedure because the OK sign is part of the hand signals they teach you. 

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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11 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

It's more than understandable not to like it, and there's a bunch of contexts where the OK sign was(is?) widely and helpfully used. However, this is how language works. Meanings are defined and are changed by everyday usage. If you have a bunch of white supremacists actively using a previously innocuous symbol in order to "troll the libs", the meaning of that symbol may become indelibly associated with white supremacism. It should be interpreted as such if it is intended as such.

So, if I decide to troll people, and a poop sign will be meaning people of color, should the poop sign be banned? If I will replace it later on, with a toilet sign, will it also be banned? If I will use an 'equal' sign for straight supremacy, will this need to be banned as well? Thumbs up being a gay-catcall? Just because a bunch of weirdos decided to push something trolly and prove how stupid and over sanitized environment will become, that should then result in vast majority of people to adapt and change, just not to be falsely accused due to lack of context? 

Because of SM now you can pull a picture out of context and even if the person has only mediocrum of a centrist-right worldview, you can start slapping them as supre-whatever. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Well I guess every scuba qualifying agency is going to have to change their procedure because the OK sign is part of the hand signals they teach you. 

I know it's a problem because of these sorts of situations. I assume it's also a common symbol in sign language.

 

But then there are these guys:

proud-boys-capitol-siege-01-gty-llr-2101

 

 

"My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist
I am Dan Quayle of the Romans.
I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.
Heja Sverige!!
Everyone should cuffawkle more.
The wrench is your friend. :bat:

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1 minute ago, Darkpriest said:

So, if I decide to troll people, and a poop sign will be meaning people of color, should the poop sign be banned? If I will replace it later on, with a toilet sign, will it also be banned? If I will use an 'equal' sign for straight supremacy, will this need to be banned as well? Thumbs up being a gay-catcall? Just because a bunch of weirdos decided to push something trolly and prove how stupid and over sanitized environment will become, that should then result in vast majority of people to adapt and change, just not to be falsely accused due to lack of context? 

Because of SM now you can pull a picture out of context and even if the person has only mediocrum of a centrist-right worldview, you can start slapping them as supre-whatever. 

 

It all depends on how the sign is adopted and interpreted by the population at large. If it's one guy with a sign, one time, it doesn't mean a whole lot, if neonazis start using a previously innocuous sign in a more systematic fashion then you have a problem.

"My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist
I am Dan Quayle of the Romans.
I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.
Heja Sverige!!
Everyone should cuffawkle more.
The wrench is your friend. :bat:

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